Automotive Discussion

[Clockw0rk]

Anything car related goes here!

So, in the time that the forums have been down, Alan's Altezza has had a bit of engine work done on it - double thickness head gasket to lower the compression to 10.3:1, a PowerFC ECU and a GReddy electronic boost controller, and a boost gauge which is handy because now it's putting out a whopping 191.5kw and at the rear wheels on 12psi boost.

The Celica is going nicely, no news other than a report on its towing power - I had to use it to pull my flatmate's Falcon out of the backyard when it rained and got stuck in mud. 4WD for the win.
I'll put some 'Tezza photos up when it stops raining - it also got angel eyes while we were away and looks pretty flash.

[Quatters]

Angel eyes are ricey and lame.

[Gemerald]

I really like the Tezza and kudos to Clockwork for the heads up on the sat-nav units that came pre-installed. It seems they were on the very premium models later on in the cars life cycle.

Sadly I saw one of these drive past today:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2b/2009_BMW_X6_xDrive35i.jpg/800px-2009_BMW_X6_xDrive35i.jpg

I'm probably the only one here who thinks it's an eyesore. Anyone else share my view?

[Clockw0rk]

Any SUV ever is an eyesore. Fact.

[Gemerald]

Any SUV ever is an eyesore. Fact.

Surprised to get some support, I feel this one is a bigger sinner over the others. Can't believe someone would spend so much money to buy one of these. I suppose once your inside you don't have to see it from the outside.

[Quatters]

I really like the Tezza and kudos to Clockwork for the heads up on the sat-nav units that came pre-installed. It seems they were on the very premium models later on in the cars life cycle.

Sadly I saw one of these drive past today:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2b/2009_BMW_X6_xDrive35i.jpg/800px-2009_BMW_X6_xDrive35i.jpg

I'm probably the only one here who thinks it's an eyesore. Anyone else share my view?



This is probably the only time I'm ever going to agree with you on something automotive based because generally you know nothing and have a terrible taste in cars and then when you have a good taste (NSX) you ruin it by wishing for one in auto which completely destroys the rationale behind the NSX existence.




BTW pics from a Bells Line of Road drive we had.


CATERHAM SUPER 7!!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/quatters/Blue%20Mountaion%20Drive%20July%2009/stefan_3896.jpg

On the go tuning for 335i
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/quatters/Blue%20Mountaion%20Drive%20July%2009/stefan_3899.jpg


We got lost :(
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/quatters/Blue%20Mountaion%20Drive%20July%2009/stefan_3914.jpg

Huzzah for GPS!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/quatters/Blue%20Mountaion%20Drive%20July%2009/stefan_3915.jpg

What's the retail on one of those?
More than you can afford.
Smoke him.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/quatters/Blue%20Mountaion%20Drive%20July%2009/stefan_3917.jpg

Mmmmmmm E92 M3. Pity he never even pushed it and I was pulling away from him on Bells Line and Cattai Ridge
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/quatters/Blue%20Mountaion%20Drive%20July%2009/stefan_3934.jpg


Mmmmmmm E46 M3 Competition Spec
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/quatters/Blue%20Mountaion%20Drive%20July%2009/stefan_3960_1_2.jpg

Photo stuff
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/quatters/Blue%20Mountaion%20Drive%20July%2009/stefan_3966.jpg

[Clockw0rk]

Angel eyes are ricey and lame.
Wait... do you own a BMW? Don't they all have angel eyes?
The angel eyes and eyelids on the Altezza combined with the low ride height, elegance lip and the FMIC give it a very aggressive look on the road. Rather than go all out rice, he's managed to keep it looking very clean but significantly better than a standard Altezza.

Also - 191.5kw at the rear wheels, so it's got the power to back up the looks.

[Quatters]

Yeah I do, but not all of them have it. The 3 Series only got it in the E90.
I'm not a fan of retro fitting stuff like that. Sort of how you now see millions of cars with Audi style driving lights. Makes me rage. There's a reason I'm blacking out the chrome trim on my car.

Fair call with the power on his car. But still, I'd rather spend that cash on more performance.

[Shorty]

I just think the X6 looks goofy. Coupes and SUVs are fine seperately but combining the two is just silly.

Having said that, the Range Stormer recreation that West Coast Customs did for a customer in Dubai was absolutely stunning.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu328/zerosignal/2001235674692854092_rs.jpg

[Clockw0rk]

Yeah I do, but not all of them have it. The 3 Series only got it in the E90.
I'm not a fan of retro fitting stuff like that. Sort of how you now see millions of cars with Audi style driving lights. Makes me rage. There's a reason I'm blacking out the chrome trim on my car.

Fair call with the power on his car. But still, I'd rather spend that cash on more performance.
Angel Eyes+Blacking out the chrome of the headlights+eyelids = about $250 all up. At this point there aren't any performance parts he doesn't already have that cost anywhere near that. All the cosmetic mods have been done after the engine/handling. In addition to the engine work it's got Tom's adjustable coil overs, slotted brake rotors, Altezza Gita wheels (wider at the rear than standard Altezzas), and Goodyear Eagle F1 tyres all round. Inside it's got a short shift kit (same as the TRD model but made by an engineering company somewhere in Germany for about 1/3 the price) and Recaro bucket seats.

He's got wider wheels sitting in the garage (17x9s with 255 width tyres), we just haven't been bothered putting them on yet. After that he'll probably look at a stronger LSD, and he's also going to book it for some minor panel+paint work shortly.

I'd love to have the money to spend on the GT-Four, but to be honest it'd go towards keeping it as factory as possible rather than excessive modding which would ruin the collector's value. I'd like some better suspension though.

What are the details on your BMW?

[Quatters]

Angel Eyes+Blacking out the chrome of the headlights+eyelids = about $250 all up. At this point there aren't any performance parts he doesn't already have that cost anywhere near that. All the cosmetic mods have been done after the engine/handling. In addition to the engine work it's got Tom's adjustable coil overs, slotted brake rotors, Altezza Gita wheels (wider at the rear than standard Altezzas), and Goodyear Eagle F1 tyres all round. Inside it's got a short shift kit (same as the TRD model but made by an engineering company somewhere in Germany for about 1/3 the price) and Recaro bucket seats.

He's got wider wheels sitting in the garage (17x9s with 255 width tyres), we just haven't been bothered putting them on yet. After that he'll probably look at a stronger LSD, and he's also going to book it for some minor panel+paint work shortly.

I'd love to have the money to spend on the GT-Four, but to be honest it'd go towards keeping it as factory as possible rather than excessive modding which would ruin the collector's value. I'd like some better suspension though.

What are the details on your BMW?

Did you guys get the Gita or is it import only?

I have a steadily growing pile of stuff at the moment which has to go on (LSD, sway bars, a whole bunch of suspension bushes)

But what I'm doing next I'm not 100% sure on.
Because of teh ridiculous new laws, I'm thinking of fast tracking shocks + springs (Bilstein B8 and Eibach Pro-Kit), $2,460 all up installed with wheel alignment. But I was about to order a whole bunch of chassis braces from the US along with a new intake. So umming and ahhing, but I'll have to make up my mind before the 1st because then our new Nazi suspension laws come into place.

I've cracked the shits at my wheels though, the new brake pads are very, very dusty and my wheels are bastards to clean so I've been trying to find some reasonably priced BBS.

[Gemerald]

This is probably the only time I'm ever going to agree with you on something automotive based because generally you know nothing and have a terrible taste in cars and then when you have a good taste (NSX) you ruin it by wishing for one in auto which completely destroys the rationale behind the NSX existence.

Nice troll. I think I'm fairly wise when it comes to things automotive unlike you with your narrow minded views on autos and RWD (recall that convo with Shorty me and you oh so long ago). I thought taste varies and is opinionated. I hate BMWs because I'd rather a better built car that offers more toys for the money (Lexus).

I think what you fail to realise in that thick head of yours is that people are different. I don't like to shift gears and if I wanted an NSX as an everyday car, it would be an auto (if I had a track car, it would be a manual). One of the reasons the NSX existed was to showcase Honda's developments from F1 into roadcars.

If the car was meant to be manual only, Honda would not have made an auto box or even offered it as an option.

End of the day, agree to disagree and move on without the troll.

[IRS]

The NSX should never have an automatic gearbox. Quatters is right, it completely goes against the entire philosophy of the car and why it exists.

[Gemerald]

The NSX should never have an automatic gearbox. Quatters is right, it completely goes against the entire philosophy of the car and why it exists.

Yet it was offered as an option. Funny I thought the NSX was built to show that Honda could develop and build cars that weren't mainstream small compacts. This car was so ahead of it's time in what it offered in terms of it's technology (VTEC, all aluminium chassis, etc) as well in it's superb design and build quality (so good it could be used everyday, in which case an auto wouldn't be a bad idea, hence why it was probably offered).

Everyone has different tastes and requirements for a car. Agree to disagree and move on.

[HiredMan]

Nice troll. I think I'm fairly wise when it comes to things automotive unlike you with your narrow minded views on autos and RWD (recall that convo with Shorty me and you oh so long ago). I thought taste varies and is opinionated. I hate BMWs because I'd rather a better built car that offers more toys for the money (Lexus).

I think what you fail to realise in that thick head of yours is that people are different. I don't like to shift gears and if I wanted an NSX as an everyday car, it would be an auto (if I had a track car, it would be a manual). One of the reasons the NSX existed was to showcase Honda's developments from F1 into roadcars.

If the car was meant to be manual only, Honda would not have made an auto box or even offered it as an option.

End of the day, agree to disagree and move on without the troll.

We get it Gem, you're not a driving enthusiast. You like comfortable cars that are nice and soft so you don't put your back out when you drive them every day. BMW's are cars for driving enthusiasts. There is not a single Lexus that beats a BMW in the same class for driving involvement (although the IS-F comes close to the M3, the M3 is still the weapon of choice in it's segment for driving enthusiasts). Lexus' are better built, cheaper and come with more kit as standard, but even Audi are starting to overtake them in the sportiness stakes.

That post was also a far more blatant troll than Quatters'

The NSX should never have an automatic gearbox. Quatters is right, it completely goes against the entire philosophy of the car and why it exists.

While I hate to admit it, I mostly agree with IRS here. The NSX was designed as a useable, exploitable supercar that wasn't a pain to drive everyday. However, it was still designed as a supercar, meaning it was designed to go fast and be focused. A slushbox auto is completely at odds with the philosophy of the car. However, a DSG would suit it perfectly provided it didn't add extra weight.

To finish, I'll agree to disagree with you Gem.

[IRS]

It was offered as an option? So what.

You can buy a H2 Hummer if you want it. Doesn't make the H2 a worthwhile car just because you can buy it.

All it says is there was enough people out there with money and no idea about cars.

[IRS]

Most likely going car shopping this weekend. Open to suggestions, so far, checking out the net, I am leaning towards

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/private/details.aspx?R=7259317&__sid=1229E7CD98F6&__Qpb=true&Cr=2&__Ns=pCar_RankSort_Int32|1||pCar_Price_Decimal|1|| pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String|0&keywords=&__N=1216%201246%201247%201252%201282%204294967194% 20463%20410%20901&PriceFrom=463&PriceTo=410&seot=1&tsrc=allcarhome&__Nne=15&trecs=9&silo=1011

[Gemerald]

We get it Gem, you're not a driving enthusiast. You like comfortable cars that are nice and soft so you don't put your back out when you drive them every day. BMW's are cars for driving enthusiasts. There is not a single Lexus that beats a BMW in the same class for driving involvement (although the IS-F comes close to the M3, the M3 is still the weapon of choice in it's segment for driving enthusiasts). Lexus' are better built, cheaper and come with more kit as standard, but even Audi are starting to overtake them in the sportiness stakes.

I might not enjoy driving that isn't to say I don't enjoy cars and automobiles. There are Audi's that are just as stiff as BMW (and probably with the same build quality). I should also point out I'm a fan of the new shark inspired Z4 (but only when the roof is down). I also accept that the M3 is probably the best out of it's competition out there.

That post was also a far more blatant troll than Quatters'

Just replying to the original post in the same tone :)

While I hate to admit it, I mostly agree with IRS here. The NSX was designed as a useable, exploitable supercar that wasn't a pain to drive everyday. However, it was still designed as a supercar, meaning it was designed to go fast and be focused. A slushbox auto is completely at odds with the philosophy of the car. However, a DSG would suit it perfectly provided it didn't add extra weight.

You have 2 arguments here. If it was designed to be an everyday car, an auto should always be offered. If it was a supercar why is the power/displacement lacking? This is a conundrum that's been discussed to death by so many people.

Yes I know about the 280ps/276hp quoted by Japanese brochure but it's safe to say Skyline GT-Rs and NSXs had more grunt than was quoted. Still, the NSX never had the real power to be considering a super car (which is what most people lamented) and it's not like Honda were keen to introduce forced induction either, but rather stick to their NA set up.

A DSG would have been great but remember, this came out in what, 1990/1991?

It was offered as an option? So what.

Your response does not surprise me in the slightest.

[HiredMan]

Most likely going car shopping this weekend. Open to suggestions, so far, checking out the net, I am leaning towards

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/private/details.aspx?R=7259317&__sid=1229E7CD98F6&__Qpb=true&Cr=2&__Ns=pCar_RankSort_Int32|1||pCar_Price_Decimal|1|| pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String|0&keywords=&__N=1216%201246%201247%201252%201282%204294967194% 20463%20410%20901&PriceFrom=463&PriceTo=410&seot=1&tsrc=allcarhome&__Nne=15&trecs=9&silo=1011

If you are after a runabout, there's not much better than an A4. They are not a driving enthusiast's (****, I'm wearing that term out a bit) car, but are beautifully built, great looking and have the best interiors in the business.

There are, however, a couple of problems with A4's (and most other Audi's) from an enthusiasts perspective: the engine is mounted entirely in front of the front axle line, meaning they are very nose heavy and have a large tendency to understeer on the limit. Also, the suspension tune is quite firm for Australian roads. If you live in an area with crap roads, you might find the ride a little jarring.

[IRS]

Yeah, I agree HM. I've been toying with the idea of getting a 3 series BMW instead. Or I should say I will either get a FWD Audi or a BMW 3 series, I'm not interested in a quattro. The reason I slightly prefer the Audi is I can get an auto so my gf can use it if she needs to.

Car is gonna be used for general commuting. But it's been years since I've had a car that doesn't suck, and I live literally walking distance from Adelaide hills roads, which are seriously fantastic driving roads.

[Gemerald]

Yeah, I agree HM. I've been toying with the idea of getting a 3 series BMW instead. Or I should say I will either get a FWD Audi or a BMW 3 series, I'm not interested in a quattro. The reason I slightly prefer the Audi is I can get an auto so my gf can use it if she needs to.

See I've always thought if you were to buy an Audi, you'd want the quattro as it's something the company prides itself about. Wouldn't buying a FWD Audi go completely against the entire philosophy of the Audi brand?

Where have I heard that before.

[IRS]

No. The point I was making is the FWD is a commuting car that isn't a great performance car.

If I wanted a performance Audi I would need to get a Quattro. But if I was getting something for performance, I consider the BMW superior because it is RWD with better weight distribution.

[Quatters]

Nice troll. I think I'm fairly wise when it comes to things automotive unlike you with your narrow minded views on autos and RWD (recall that convo with Shorty me and you oh so long ago). I thought taste varies and is opinionated. I hate BMWs because I'd rather a better built car that offers more toys for the money (Lexus).

I think what you fail to realise in that thick head of yours is that people are different. I don't like to shift gears and if I wanted an NSX as an everyday car, it would be an auto (if I had a track car, it would be a manual). One of the reasons the NSX existed was to showcase Honda's developments from F1 into roadcars.

If the car was meant to be manual only, Honda would not have made an auto box or even offered it as an option.

End of the day, agree to disagree and move on without the troll.


You don't actually know what trolling is do you.

My views on auto are not a view, it's a FACT. Manual IS more fun. Same as RWD. It's a FACT that RWD is more fun than FWD.

Your idea on the Lexus is exactly where our views differ, I'd choose the car with better dynamics and involving drive, you'd choose the boring option.

An NSX being auto make as much sense as having a RS version Maybach with a striped interior. It completely goes against the rationale for the car existing.

The reason why Honda made it in auto is to sell it to the greater public who actually have no interest in a car's dynamics and bought the NSX because they want something "sporty."


I might not enjoy driving that isn't to say I don't enjoy cars and automobiles. There are Audi's that are just as stiff as BMW (and probably with the same build quality). I should also point out I'm a fan of the new shark inspired Z4 (but only when the roof is down). I also accept that the M3 is probably the best out of it's competition out there.


Which EVO have critiscized for being less of a drivers car than the old Z4 as it's now an SLK competitor rather than Boxster competitor.



You have 2 arguments here. If it was designed to be an everyday car, an auto should always be offered. If it was a supercar why is the power/displacement lacking? This is a conundrum that's been discussed to death by so many people.

WTF? Seriously, manual is NOT HARD TO DRIVE! I drive mine everyday and it's no harder to drive than an auto. The NSX had to conform to the gentlemen's agreement in Japan, hence the lack of power. Only the GT-Rs and the Supra actually had more power than quoted. The NSX was on the money. The reason it got so much faster was because Honda kept developing the suspension, dropping the weight and putting better and better tyres on it.


Yeah, I agree HM. I've been toying with the idea of getting a 3 series BMW instead. Or I should say I will either get a FWD Audi or a BMW 3 series, I'm not interested in a quattro. The reason I slightly prefer the Audi is I can get an auto so my gf can use it if she needs to.

Car is gonna be used for general commuting. But it's been years since I've had a car that doesn't suck, and I live literally walking distance from Adelaide hills roads, which are seriously fantastic driving roads.

If the Adelaide hills are that good, then I'd suggest going for a 3 series! The E46s are getting very cheap, infact, they're as cheap now as E36s were just a year ago! Plus while still a good drivers car, the E46 is much comfier and more of a GT than the E36s

[HiredMan]

I might not enjoy driving that isn't to say I don't enjoy cars and automobiles. There are Audi's that are just as stiff as BMW (and probably with the same build quality). I should also point out I'm a fan of the new shark inspired Z4 (but only when the roof is down). I also accept that the M3 is probably the best out of it's competition out there.

I never said you weren't into cars Gem, I was just pointing out that you are not into cars for driving enthusiasts.


You have 2 arguments here. If it was designed to be an everyday car, an auto should always be offered. If it was a supercar why is the power/displacement lacking? This is a conundrum that's been discussed to death by so many people.

Yes I know about the 280ps/276hp quoted by Japanese brochure but it's safe to say Skyline GT-Rs and NSXs had more grunt than was quoted. Still, the NSX never had the real power to be considering a super car (which is what most people lamented) and it's not like Honda were keen to introduce forced induction either, but rather stick to their NA set up.

Why should an auto be offered for an everyday car? I don't see your point. If I want one car to drive every day, I want it to be usable, but as an enthusiast, I sure as hell want it to be a manual.

And are you serious in that you don't think the NSX is a supercar? Can you name a RWD car with a mid-longitudinally mounted engine that wouldn't be considered one? Like I said in my original post, the NSX was designed as a usable, exploitable supercar that could be used every day. The performance was exceptional at the time it was released, comparable (not equal, but comparable) to late 80's Ferraris that cost over 3 times as much.

A DSG would have been great but remember, this came out in what, 1990/1991?And ceased production when? 2005? And your point is?

Interesting fact: Porsche designed the first dual clutch 'box n a car for the 956 Group C endurance racer in the mid 80's.

[Quatters]

See I've always thought if you were to buy an Audi, you'd want the quattro as it's something the company prides itself about. Wouldn't buying a FWD Audi go completely against the entire philosophy of the Audi brand?

Where have I heard that before.

Quattro is what brought Audi success on the rally stage and they apply to all their performance models. Their philosophy is in quality.

No. The point I was making is the FWD is a commuting car that isn't a great performance car.

If I wanted a performance Audi I would need to get a Quattro. But if I was getting something for performance, I consider the BMW superior because it is RWD with better weight distribution.


Exactly.

[HiredMan]

I also heartily agree with IRS' and Quatters' comment's re: Audis and beamers.

Mum has a last gen A4 2.0. It is a superbly built, beautiful car, but it is not a drivers car, which suits her perfectly.

BTW Gem, Audis and Lexus' are the best built mass produced cars there are. Lexus has had the edge in build quality in the past, but since the last gen of both cars, I would put Audi in front by a nose. They both have superior build quality to Merc's and BMW's though.

[Quatters]

I also heartily agree with IRS' and Quatters' comment's re: Audis and beamers.

Mum has a last gen A4 2.0. It is a superbly built, beautiful car, but it is not a drivers car, which suits her perfectly.

BTW Gem, Audis and Lexus' are the best built mass produced cars there are. Lexus has had the edge in build quality in the past, but since the last gen of both cars, I would put Audi in front by a nose. They both have superior build quality to Merc's and BMW's though.


Exactly.
Same as my parents. Dad's got the E90, mum has a CLK.

The problem with build quality is maintenance. If you properly maintain a car, almost anything will be reliable as hell.

[Gemerald]

My views on auto are not a view, it's a FACT. Manual IS more fun. Same as RWD. It's a FACT that RWD is more fun than FWD.

I love this because it shows how pig headed and stubborn you are. Because you say something doesn't make it fact. Manual is more fun for you perhaps, but not for me because I can't be arsed changing up and down due to stop start traffic. It might be more fun on a race track but not for my local driving. See this is not fact, rather opinion. I don't recall an argument saying that RWD was not more fun.

All in all there are really great FWD cars to drive, RenaultSport Clio, Civic Type R, Golf GTIs etc.

Your idea on the Lexus is exactly where our views differ, I'd choose the car with better dynamics and involving drive, you'd choose the boring option.

I'd choose the comfortable option because I like being comfortable.

An NSX being auto make as much sense as having a RS version Maybach with a striped interior. It completely goes against the rationale for the car existing.

The reason why Honda made it in auto is to sell it to the greater public who actually have no interest in a car's dynamics and bought the NSX because they want something "sporty."

The Honda NSX was sold in relatively small numbers given it's production and it's price so it's not like Honda just made an auto to flog it off on the mass market, rather because they knew that given the cars superb build quality that it could be used on a daily basis with the ease of an Auto. I should point out it's not a bad auto either given the comments on some reviews.

Which EVO have critiscized for being less of a drivers car than the old Z4 as it's now an SLK competitor rather than Boxster competitor.

I actually like it's design and think it's beautiful side on, hence the comment upon it being topless.

WTF? Seriously, manual is NOT HARD TO DRIVE! I drive mine everyday and it's no harder to drive than an auto. The NSX had to conform to the gentlemen's agreement in Japan, hence the lack of power. Only the GT-Rs and the Supra actually had more power than quoted. The NSX was on the money. The reason it got so much faster was because Honda kept developing the suspension, dropping the weight and putting better and better tyres on it.

A manual isn't hard to drive, it's just I'm lazy. From what I heard the 3.2lt V6 offered more than 280ps and that it wasn't just faster because of the continual diet Honda kept the NSX on.

If I wanted a performance Audi I would need to get a Quattro. But if I was getting something for performance, I consider the BMW superior because it is RWD with better weight distribution.

You mentioned great driving roads, could've sworn an all wheel drive Audi loves chewing up mountain roads and passes.

Why should an auto be offered for an everyday car? I don't see your point. If I want one car to drive every day, I want it to be usable, but as an enthusiast, I sure as hell want it to be a manual.

I respond to this with if I wanted to drive the car everyday I'd want it to be an auto as I would find it easier to use and live with (the everyone is different argument). Perhaps I'd be in a similar situation to IRS and have a partner who could drive only drive auto, etc (example).

And are you serious in that you don't think the NSX is a supercar? Can you name a RWD car with a mid-longitudinally mounted engine that wouldn't be considered one? Like I said in my original post, the NSX was designed as a usable, exploitable supercar that could be used every day. The performance was exceptional at the time it was released, comparable (not equal, but comparable) to late 80's Ferraris that cost over 3 times as much.

It's hard to say. I do value it as Japan's supercar but still lament the lack of power. 1990 it was great but as time went on 2000, it became severely outpaced. If you ask a majority of people you will find it's a split decision.

And ceased production when? 2005? And your point is?

Interesting fact: Porsche designed the first dual clutch 'box n a car for the 956 Group C endurance racer in the mid 80's.

Yeah it would've been cool if they added a dual clutch box but it would've been costly to implement given the car was on it's way to the retirement home. A cheaper option was to keep the diet regiment.

Quattro is what brought Audi success on the rally stage and they apply to all their performance models. Their philosophy is in quality.

Funny that as Audi has taken a massive dip in quality yet it's more "value" brands are beating it consistently. Furthermore I strongly believe their philosophy is more based towards quattro/all wheel drive technology (and more recently clean/efficient diesel engines) rather then just quality. Furthermore all models in the range are offered (but not standard) with AWD.

I also heartily agree with IRS' and Quatters' comment's re: Audis and beamers.

Mum has a last gen A4 2.0. It is a superbly built, beautiful car, but it is not a drivers car, which suits her perfectly.

BTW Gem, Audis and Lexus' are the best built mass produced cars there are. Lexus has had the edge in build quality in the past, but since the last gen of both cars, I would put Audi in front by a nose. They both have superior build quality to Merc's and BMW's though.

http://www.whatcar.com/NonCar/13105544635.jpg

^ This was ages ago from WhatCar (decent publication). Note the position of the "value" brands Skoda, SEAT and VW compared to Audi.

Well I'm out for the night but hopefully we won't still be circling this issue come morning :/

[Quatters]

I love this because it shows how pig headed and stubborn you are. Because you say something doesn't make it fact. Manual is not more fun for you perhaps, but not for me because I can't be arsed changing up and down due to stop start traffic. It might be more fun on a race track but not for my local driving. See this is not fact, rather opinion. I don't recall an argument saying that RWD was not more fun.

All in all there are really great FWD cars to drive, RenaultSport Clio, Civic Type R, Golf GTIs etc.


You're not seeing the point, your laziness is what hinders you and stops you from seeing the facts.


The Honda NSX was sold in relatively small numbers given it's production and it's price so it's not like Honda just made an auto to flog it off on the mass market, rather because they knew that given the cars superb build quality that it could be used on a daily basis with the ease of an Auto. I should point out it's not a bad auto either given the comments on some reviews.

I'm pretty certain they released the auto after a couple of years due to disappointing sales. My point still stands, having an auto in such an involving drivers car is akin to having an RS Maybach.


What do you mean "sporty"? Are you saying it's not sporty?

No, I'm saying that there are people who don't actually care for performance, they just want a car that looks sporty. Those are the sort of people that buy auto NSXs, FWD Celicas etc. Cars that are all show.


A manual isn't hard to drive, it's just I'm lazy. From what I heard the 3.2lt V6 offered more than 280ps and that it wasn't just faster because of the continual diet Honda kept the NSX on.

So it's your own fault. It wasn't much more power. Hence why the 0-400 time barely dropped, yet teh lap times fell considerably.



You mentioned great driving roads, could've sworn an all wheel drive Audi lovely chewing up mountain passes.
Fast and satisfying are two different things.
See current GT-R vs 370Z.




I respond to this with if I wanted to drive the car everyday I'd want it to be an auto as I would find it easier to use and live with. Perhaps I'd be in a similar situation to IRS and have a partner who could drive only drive auto, etc.
Manual is not hard to drive at all. Seriously, are you physically disabled? In Europe little old ladies drive manual without a problem. Are you less physically capable than they are?



It's hard to say. I do value it as Japan's supercar but still lament the lack of power. 1990 it was great but as time went on 2000, it became severely outpaced. If you ask a majority of people you will find it's a split decision.
This is pretty much common knowledge. At the time it was not underpowered, but while everyone else moved on, they were still hampered by the gentlemen's club agreement.




Funny that as Audi has taken a massive dip in quality yet it's more "value" brands are beating it consistently. Furthermore I strongly believe their philosophy is more based towards quattro/all wheel drive (and more recently diesel engines) rather then just quality. Furthermore all models are offered with AWD.



http://www.whatcar.com/NonCar/13105544635.jpg

^ This was ages ago from WhatCar (decent publication). Note the position of the "value" brands Skoda, SEAT and VW compared to Audi.

Well I'm out for the night but hopefully we won't still be circling this issue come morning :/

Audi still prides themselves on their quality. It's like Lexus threw every toy under the sun into it's cars as it needed to beat the established competition.
Also Audi are now quite firmly established alongside BMW and Mercedes as far as prestige is concerned, so having the highest quality is not such an issue.
Also that survery has a few brands well out of place from many other surveys I've seen.

I've never seen Audi outside of the top 10 and Daweoo and Mitsubishi that high?!?!!? THat's a joke right. Also Mercedes haven't been that high since the 80s.

[Clockw0rk]

Did you guys get the Gita or is it import only?

I have a steadily growing pile of stuff at the moment which has to go on (LSD, sway bars, a whole bunch of suspension bushes)

But what I'm doing next I'm not 100% sure on.
Because of teh ridiculous new laws, I'm thinking of fast tracking shocks + springs (Bilstein B8 and Eibach Pro-Kit), $2,460 all up installed with wheel alignment. But I was about to order a whole bunch of chassis braces from the US along with a new intake. So umming and ahhing, but I'll have to make up my mind before the 1st because then our new Nazi suspension laws come into place.

I've cracked the shits at my wheels though, the new brake pads are very, very dusty and my wheels are bastards to clean so I've been trying to find some reasonably priced BBS.
Gita is import only, but NZ has wonderfully lax import laws because we don't manufacture cars over here. Modifying laws are very lax too. I also forgot to mention the 'Tezza has a Cusco strut brace.

I was talking to my friend today about how I'd love to move to Melbourne sometime in the near future. However, this would mean giving up the GT-Four so I'm more likely to shift down to Wellington, unless someone could tell me how easy/hard/expensive it'd be to ship over and road register a 1994 turbo 4WD with no mods aside from a boost gauge and lowering springs? I'm not about to give my car up anytime soon.

[Quatters]

Gita is import only, but NZ has wonderfully lax import laws because we don't manufacture cars over here. Modifying laws are very lax too. I also forgot to mention the 'Tezza has a Cusco strut brace.

I was talking to my friend today about how I'd love to move to Melbourne sometime in the near future. However, this would mean giving up the GT-Four so I'm more likely to shift down to Wellington, unless someone could tell me how easy/hard/expensive it'd be to ship over and road register a 1994 turbo 4WD with no mods aside from a boost gauge and lowering springs? I'm not about to give my car up anytime soon.


I knew your import laws were pretty much a free for all due to HPI coverage of NZ events.

Probably the best bet to get it over is as a personal import. If you've owned a car for 12 months overseas it's pretty easy to get it imported. The only problem, is I'm not sure if it applys to immigrants. Check out the SEVs guidelines and see. Shipping shouldn't be too expensive.

[Lazlow]

If this dude's story about shipping an Altezza from NZ (http://z4.invisionfree.com/lexusaltezzaclub/index.php?showtopic=5696) to Aus is anything to go by, you're looking at a few grand.

Costs-
DOTARS application $50
Freight to Aussie- say $2000
Customs Tax & GST $2600
Steam cleaning $440
Niddrie VIN $40 (twice for me!)
Weighbridge $25
Pink slip inspection $130
Rego Fee $260
Rego tax $35
Stamp tax $400
Number plate $75

Plus I had to freight it from the wharf to Orange, another $440.


IRS, I found your car (http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/private/details.aspx?R=7310189&keywords=B4&tsrc=allcarhome&__Ntk=CarAll&__Nne=15&__Dx=mode%20matchany&__D=B4&silo=1011&seot=1&__sid=121739D2AA9F&__N=1216%201246%201247%201252%201282%204294963801% 204294963605%20901&__Ns=pCar_RankSort_Int32|1||pCar_Price_Decimal|1|| pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String|0&__Qpb=true&__Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&Cr=1&__Ntt=B4&trecs=2)

[Quatters]

If this dude's story about shipping an Altezza from NZ (http://z4.invisionfree.com/lexusaltezzaclub/index.php?showtopic=5696) to Aus is anything to go by, you're looking at a few grand.




IRS, I found your car (http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/private/details.aspx?R=7310189&keywords=B4&tsrc=allcarhome&__Ntk=CarAll&__Nne=15&__Dx=mode%20matchany&__D=B4&silo=1011&seot=1&__sid=121739D2AA9F&__N=1216%201246%201247%201252%201282%204294963801% 204294963605%20901&__Ns=pCar_RankSort_Int32|1||pCar_Price_Decimal|1|| pCar_Make_String|0||pCar_Model_String|0&__Qpb=true&__Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&Cr=1&__Ntt=B4&trecs=2)

Costs-
DOTARS application $50
Freight to Aussie- say $2000
Customs Tax & GST $2600
Steam cleaning $440 WTF?!?! You can get a car well detailed for $300!
Niddrie VIN $40 (twice for me!)
Weighbridge $25
Pink slip inspection $130 F that! It's more like $50
Rego Fee $260
Rego tax $35
Stamp tax $400
Number plate $75

Plus I had to freight it from the wharf to Orange, another $440. That's why you pick it up and drive! Even if petrol triples in price it would be a hell of a lot cheaper!

[IRS]

Manual is not hard to drive at all. Seriously, are you physically disabled? In Europe little old ladies drive manual without a problem. Are you less physically capable than they are?

My gf is asian. She nearly drove a golf cart of a bridge once. (im serious)


IRS, I found your car

Wow. That looks pretty good actually. I'm checking out Subarus now

[Lazlow]

I've always had an affinity for the 2nd/3rd Gen Libertys and the B4 is the turbo'ed cream of the crop. Locally anyways >_>

[Gemerald]

You're not seeing the point, your laziness is what hinders you and stops you from seeing the facts.

Yes I'm lazy but again it comes down to opinion and circumstance. For me, auto is best hence why I prefer it.

I'm pretty certain they released the auto after a couple of years due to disappointing sales. My point still stands, having an auto in such an involving drivers car is akin to having an RS Maybach.

True auto was released after but initial sales were very restricted and in very low production anyway.

No, I'm saying that there are people who don't actually care for performance, they just want a car that looks sporty. Those are the sort of people that buy auto NSXs, FWD Celicas etc. Cars that are all show.

I would've bought an auto NSX not because of the beautiful shape but because of the research, design, development and technology that went into it. The quality of the machine and the fact that it was a halo car that had changed some of the perception of the brand.

So it's your own fault. It wasn't much more power. Hence why the 0-400 time barely dropped, yet teh lap times fell considerably.

Now while weight was reduced in terms of materials used, equipment was also added which in turn added weight (passenger airbag, side impact airbags etc). I strongly believe the NSX gained a small increase in power. If you consider that, it wouldn't be surprising to see the NSXs 0-400 time.

Fast and satisfying are two different things.
See current GT-R vs 370Z.

Again down to opinion here.

Manual is not hard to drive at all. Seriously, are you physically disabled? In Europe little old ladies drive manual without a problem. Are you less physically capable than they are?

No I'm not less capable, just lazy. I never said manual was hard to drive at all.

This is pretty much common knowledge. At the time it was not underpowered, but while everyone else moved on, they were still hampered by the gentlemen's club agreement.

Yes this is a gentlemen's agreement but at the end of the day it wasn't unheard of for cars like the NSX, GT-R etc to produce slightly more HP than the 280ps stated.

Audi still prides themselves on their quality. It's like Lexus threw every toy under the sun into it's cars as it needed to beat the established competition.
Also Audi are now quite firmly established alongside BMW and Mercedes as far as prestige is concerned, so having the highest quality is not such an issue.
Also that survery has a few brands well out of place from many other surveys I've seen.

Of course Audi pride themselves on quality, or at least want to, it's a premium brand. But they pride themselves on technology and moreso all wheel drive. Companies like Lexus have to offer more toys because they can't compete with the more established German brands.

I've never seen Audi outside of the top 10 and Daweoo and Mitsubishi that high?!?!!? THat's a joke right. Also Mercedes haven't been that high since the 80s.

Whatcar magazine is a decent publication and while I am surprised to see Daewoo there, I'm not surprised by the majority of findings, especially those at the bottom. Now this is in Europe. From 21st position and down, I think that's a fair representation of with the exception of Audi.

Look, at the end of the day we're going to have to agree to disagree and move on.

[Quatters]

My gf is asian. She nearly drove a golf cart of a bridge once. (im serious)



Wow. That looks pretty good actually. I'm checking out Subarus now

I was talking about someone else. But yeah, her being Asian is an obvious impediment to her driving ability.


Yes I'm lazy but again it comes down to opinion and circumstance. For me, auto is best hence why I prefer it.

Still wrong.

True auto was released after but initial sales were very restricted and in very low production anyway.

Because it didn't sell well as it was a $250,000 Honda!


I would've bought an auto NSX not because of the beautiful shape but because of the research, design, development and technology that went into it. The quality of the machine and the fact that it was a halo car that had changed some of the perception of the brand.

It didn't change that much perception of the brand. Also what is the point of the research, design, development and technology that went into it if you're not going to use it as it was intended to be used.

Now while weight was reduced in terms of materials used, equipment was also added which in turn added weight (passenger airbag, side impact airbags etc). I strongly believe the NSX gained a small increase in power. If you consider that, it wouldn't be surprising to see the NSXs 0-400 time.

It's powerband was broadened, but total power only had a very small increase, nowhere near enough to equate with it's reduced lap times.



Again down to opinion here.
Of pretty much every single automotive journalist and almost everyone who's driven the GT-R.

No I'm not less capable, just lazy. I never said manual was hard to drive at all.
Still a terrible excuse.


Yes this is a gentlemen's agreement but at the end of the day it wasn't unheard of for cars like the NSX, GT-R etc to produce slightly more HP than the 280ps stated.

None of the GT-Rs had 280ps. 320, 330 and 350 were the real figures. But they couldn't stray too far. The R34 GT-R was really pushing the agreement to breaking point with it's figures.



Of course Audi pride themselves on quality, or at least want to, it's a premium brand. But they pride themselves on technology and moreso all wheel drive. Companies like Lexus have to offer more toys because they can't compete with the more established German brands.

Their Quattro is more for the top end. BMW and RWD is a far more overt suggestion of drivetrain. As is Subaru and AWD (outside of Japan at least)


Whatcar magazine is a decent publication and while I am surprised to see Daewoo there, I'm not surprised by the majority of findings, especially those at the bottom. Now this is in Europe. From 21st position and down, I think that's a fair representation of with the exception of Audi.

I don't think Saab is that low, but yeah, 21st down are all pretty shody where quality is concerned.


Look, at the end of the day we're going to have to agree to disagree and move on.

Only when you admit you're wrong in your previous points.

[HiredMan]

You disagree that Gemerald is wrong? :D

[sausage]

In other, less wankery related vehicle news: I bought a 1989 Nissan Navara wellside ute yesterday for $1500.

250,000km on the clock, no power steering, manual, radio/cassette munted, 2.4 litre petrol motor, handles like a bitch and sounds like one too.

In other words, perfect for the farm and general sausage-related running around. Well pleased.

[Gemerald]

Late reply as I've been busy with other things.

Still wrong.
No it's still opinion and circumstance. Who are you to judge whether manual or auto is right for me or is better.

Because it didn't sell well as it was a $250,000 Honda!
Obviously.

It didn't change that much perception of the brand. Also what is the point of the research, design, development and technology that went into it if you're not going to use it as it was intended to be used.
On the motoring public it had some effect in terms of stating Honda could build things other than econoboxes. Furthermore you didn't need to drive the manual only. The auto was offered for a reason and it wasn't overly that bad for an auto either.

It's powerband was broadened, but total power only had a very small increase, nowhere near enough to equate with it's reduced lap times.
Now you admit there WAS a power increase as opposed to earlier. Finally. As I've been saying earlier there was an increase, no matter how small. Despite weight saving measures (materials and techniques used) it also gained weight due to safety equipment etc.

Of pretty much every single automotive journalist and almost everyone who's driven the GT-R.
Again it comes down to opinion.

Still a terrible excuse.
Valid reason for me. I didn't know you were the Jesus Christ of telling people how to drive.

None of the GT-Rs had 280ps. 320, 330 and 350 were the real figures. But they couldn't stray too far. The R34 GT-R was really pushing the agreement to breaking point with it's figures.
Exactly, as I said "Yes this is a gentlemen's agreement but at the end of the day it wasn't unheard of for cars like the NSX, GT-R etc to produce slightly more HP than the 280ps stated.".

Their Quattro is more for the top end. BMW and RWD is a far more overt suggestion of drivetrain. As is Subaru and AWD (outside of Japan at least)
The Quattro is one of an Audi's main selling points. Buying a FWD Audi is pretty much just buying a VW with an Audi badge slapped on and the benefits associated with that.

I don't think Saab is that low, but yeah, 21st down are all pretty shody where quality is concerned.
I didn't realise you were serious. You do realise that SAAB were/are massively neglected by GM right? This doesn't surprise me at all. The only 2 models I can think of are massively old, the SAAB 9-5 is still going from 1997 on an Opel platform that not even Opel use anymore (keep in mind this is the flagship).

The first SAAB 9-3 was basically a reskinned SAAB 900. Since then it has slightly adapted and changed but has failed to keep up to date (especially with the competition, thanks again to GMs failure to modernise the brand). In terms of retooling has anything really happened there lately?

Yeah I know they tacked AWD to a SAAB 9-3 and there are still questions on whether the platform was originally meant to support AWD or whether this was some failed attempt to somewhat modernise the 9-3. There's only so many ways you can reskin a sheep.

Only when you admit you're wrong in your previous points.
My points are completely valid and you're reiterating some of them.

[Quatters]

In other, less wankery related vehicle news: I bought a 1989 Nissan Navara wellside ute yesterday for $1500.

250,000km on the clock, no power steering, manual, radio/cassette munted, 2.4 litre petrol motor, handles like a bitch and sounds like one too.

In other words, perfect for the farm and general sausage-related running around. Well pleased.

Are you going to have it registered or not? There's ridiculous new laws coming into effect which will limit how much you can alter the car's height from standard.

It's a 5cm limit, but that needs to be engineer approved otherwise your rego and insurance can be considered void. ****ing lame. The current laws should just be enforced rather than introduce new laws that won't change anything as all the idiots with chopped springs in VN Commodores are still going to be doing it and the only people affected will be people that complied with the old laws and try to do the right thing.


Late reply as I've been busy with other things.


No it's still opinion and circumstance. Who are you to judge whether manual or auto is right for me or is better.


There's no point continuing the manual v auto discussion. You're wrong and that's it, the auto NSX is an insult to anything related to motoring enjoyment.


Now you admit there WAS a power increase as opposed to earlier. Finally. As I've been saying earlier there was an increase, no matter how small. Despite weight saving measures (materials and techniques used) it also gained weight due to safety equipment etc.

The power increase does not equate to the same increase in performance it recieved. That was my point.


The Quattro is one of an Audi's main selling points. Buying a FWD Audi is pretty much just buying a VW with an Audi badge slapped on and the benefits associated with that.

LOL! You make me laugh. Go look for the figures for total Audi sales. Oh wow, the FWD models outsell the AWD models. Yes, the FWD Audis are essentially luxuried up VWs, doesn't stop them from outselling the Quattro versions. Same that the best selling 3 series are the underpowered 18s in the E36 and E46 and the 20i in the E90.

I didn't realise you were serious. You do realise that SAAB were/are massively neglected by GM right? This doesn't surprise me at all. The only 2 models I can think of are massively old, the SAAB 9-5 is still going from 1997 on an Opel platform that not even Opel use anymore (keep in mind this is the flagship).

The first SAAB 9-3 was basically a reskinned SAAB 900. Since then it has slightly adapted and changed but has failed to keep up to date (especially with the competition, thanks again to GMs failure to modernise the brand). In terms of retooling has anything really happened there lately?

Yeah I know they tacked AWD to a SAAB 9-3 and there are still questions on whether the platform was originally meant to support AWD or whether this was some failed attempt to somewhat modernise the 9-3. There's only so many ways you can reskin a sheep.

I knew the older pre-GM Saabs were good and reliable cars, I wasn't sure how far they had slipped under GM.


My points are completely valid and you're reiterating some of them.

No







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[Lazlow]

Is that a short ram intake?

Hope you heatshield that sucker.

[Quatters]

Is that a short ram intake?

Hope you heatshield that sucker.


Nope!
It's actually a weird project for a guy.
What happened was there were two types of intakes available for BMWs.

1- Super expensive ($1,500 +) Dinan, Conforti etc intakes that made power.
2- Cheap to reasonably expensive intakes that lost power as they were all short and high mounted so they got really hot and no airflow.

So this dude thought it can't be that hard or expensive to make his own, so he did.

It's actually very long, the filter sits down below the headlamps so you can't see it, it's not exposed and up getting hot like all the stupid short ram kits. Also it's coated in heat reflective film so the intake pipe itself doesn't get hot either.
I'm also considering cutting up and using my standard airbox, not so much as a heat shield, as the position of the filter doesn't need one, but to keep it looking factory stock!

[Lazlow]

I've got an eye out for a K&N Apollo (http://www.knfilters.com/universal/apollo.htm).

Can be used as either a SRI, or CAI with the attachment of an additional hose. It meets safety standards by keeping the filter enclosed.

[Quatters]

I've got an eye out for a K&N Apollo (http://www.knfilters.com/universal/apollo.htm).

Can be used as either a SRI, or CAI with the attachment of an additional hose. It meets safety standards by keeping the filter enclosed.

That's what it's all about! As long as it gets cold air in, it's good. The problem is so many dodgies are labelled as CAIs even though they don't actually get any cold air in there!

[Lazlow]

That or they're crudely constructed so the diameter narrows at the bends.

[HiredMan]

The Quattro is one of an Audi's main selling points. Buying a FWD Audi is pretty much just buying a VW with an Audi badge slapped on and the benefits associated with that.

If you're insinuating that a FWD A4 is essentially a re-skinned Passat (I assume you are as you brought up this argument when IRS mentioned he was looking at a FWD A4), I beg to differ.

They share a few components, but are fundamentally quite different cars. For example, A4's engines are longitudinally mounted and Passats are transversely mounted. The 4Motion 4WD system used in Passats is also quite different to the Quattro system in A4's. While the Audi's apportion drive to the rear with a torsen centre differential the VW system uses a Haldex centre clutch pack arrangement.

[HiredMan]

Ferrari announced their F430 replacement yesterday, the 458 Italia. (http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?articleID=64608&s_rid=smh:rainbowstrip:content2:29-07:458_r3:stunningnewferrari458&IsPgd=0)

Looks like they've reverted to their old naming conventions where the first 2 numbers indicate engine capacity and the last number indicates number of cylinders (4.5 litre v8) ala 288 GTO and 308.

It's spec sheet is very impressive -
Engine: 4.5 litre DOHC v8, 4 valves per cylinder
Power: 425kW(570bhp)@9000rpm
Torque: 540Nm@6000rpm (some sources are quoting 470Nm@5250rpm..... 540Nm from an atmo 4.5 litre engine is an incredible figure if it's true)
Trans: 7 speed dual-clutch automated manual
Kerb weight: 1380kg
Fuel consumption: 13.7l/100km
0-100km/h: 3.4 seconds
Top speed: 325km/h (202mph)

It has an e-diff ala 430 Scuderia and also some active aerodynamics (hydraulic flaps that close intakes at high speed for better aero and reduced fuel consumption from reduced drag etc).

There are some images of the Italia in the smh article I've linked to, wasn't able to find any on any of the free image hosting sites yesterday from work. If anyone can find some good ones, please post em up. I really like the look of it, much cleaner than a Scud.

[Lazlow]

Needs to lose those LED headlights >_<

[HiredMan]

126.6bhp/litre has got to be a new record for a naturally aspirated series production car (discounting ultra low volume stuff like the Caparo T1 (164.3bhp/litre) and Ariel Atom 500 V8 (208.3bhp/litre)).

[Clockw0rk]

I like it, there's definitely a bit of Enzo in there. Not a fan of the headlights though.
Also HM, I'm pretty sure the Atom 500 is supercharged.

[HiredMan]

Supercars.net reckons the motor is a supercharged 2.4 litre, but I'm more inclined to trust evo who reckon it's a nat atmo 3 litre and have included a photo of the engine which supports the atmo theory as it has open trumpet induction (and 8 throttle bodies :)).

Still, it means I got the specific power output of the Atom 500 wrong above as I used the 2.4/500 figures from supercars.net and missed that they thought it was supercharged.

The real figure (according to the evo info) for the Atom 500 V8 would be 166.6bhp/litre, still just above the T1. The reason these cars engines are capable of such massive specific power outputs from relatively small naturally aspirated engines is that they both make peak power well above 10,000rpm.

[Clockw0rk]

Jalopnik reported that it would be supercharged and so did Top Gear I believe, so I assumed that'd be the final spec. 8 throttle bodies+ open trumpet induction is freakin' awesome though, I almost prefer that to a supercharger.

[HiredMan]

Yeah, I think it's been changed from the old supercharged engine (which I believe was the engine originally mooted for the Caparo T1 and is possibly the one that currently powers that v8 Caterham).

The article I'm referencing is from the latest air freight evo. The 3 litre unit is apparently designed in America but is being built in Ariel's plant. Sounds like an incredible peice of kit, 75 degree vee angle and it only weighs 90kg (!) which I believe would be significantly less than the 2 litre supercharged i-VTEC in the Atom 300.

[Mellomaniac]

Ferrari announced their F430 replacement yesterday, the 458 Italia. (http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?articleID=64608&s_rid=smh:rainbowstrip:content2:29-07:458_r3:stunningnewferrari458&IsPgd=0)

Looks like they've reverted to their old naming conventions where the first 2 numbers indicate engine capacity and the last number indicates number of cylinders (4.5 litre v8) ala 288 GTO and 308.

It's spec sheet is very impressive -
Engine: 4.5 litre DOHC v8, 4 valves per cylinder
Power: 425kW(570bhp)@9000rpm
Torque: 540Nm@6000rpm (some sources are quoting 470Nm@5250rpm..... 540Nm from an atmo 4.5 litre engine is an incredible figure if it's true)
Trans: 7 speed dual-clutch automated manual
Kerb weight: 1380kg
Fuel consumption: 13.7l/100km
0-100km/h: 3.4 seconds
Top speed: 325km/h (202mph)

It has an e-diff ala 430 Scuderia and also some active aerodynamics (hydraulic flaps that close intakes at high speed for better aero and reduced fuel consumption from reduced drag etc).

There are some images of the Italia in the smh article I've linked to, wasn't able to find any on any of the free image hosting sites yesterday from work. If anyone can find some good ones, please post em up. I really like the look of it, much cleaner than a Scud.

I'm a big fan of ferraris and i must say this one looks like a bit of a mess. but then i'm sure it looks amazing in real life - like the enzo

anyways, i can only talk about cars i will never lay my hands on:

Lamborghini Reventon. Only 20 will exist in our world. made from pure awesome

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eCQBiOa43E

funny segment too

[Blue]

That Ferrari is nice. Glad they've finally replaced the ugly, finicky 430 with something more worthy of following on from the gorgeous 360.

[HiredMan]

I agree, I think it's the best looking Ferrari for a while. The side profile is particularly nice.

[Shorty]

Speaking of which, I passed a gold-coloured 328GTB (I think, could've been a 308) in traffic today.

[Blue]

I'm a fan of the 599, although opinion is generally mixed. But the 430 just seems bland, with no cheeky Ferrari personality in the grille, and a dodgy back. The side profile on this screams race car to me.

[Clockw0rk]

I think it's weird that you have such a low opinion of the F430 when it's so similar to the 360 you described as gorgeous. I think the F430 looks better, and if you're going to complain about its grille then what do you think of the hideous wide maw and foul headlights on the 458?

The rear, top and profile of the 458 are gorgeous but the front needs serious work IMO.

[Blue]

http://image.automotive.com/f/future_cars/2008/6699035/0609_z%252B2009_ferrari_f430_challenge_stradale%25 2Brear.jpg
http://www.seriouswheels.com/pics-2000-2003/2003-Ferrari-360-Modena-Red-Rear-Quarter-st.jpg

I know which one I prefer. The 430 suffers from finicky taillights.

http://www.allsportauto.com/photoautre/ferrari/360/modena/2001_ferrari_360_modena_06_m.jpg
http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc70/streetrally/speeding-ferrari-f430.jpg

I also think that the proportions on the front end are much nicer on the 360. The F430 is just a 360 taken too far.

The 458's grille echoes a Jag XJ220 or a Maserati, or some form of track car. From the back, it almost looks a bit like a Lotus. From the side, it's just magic. It cuts air.

[Clockw0rk]

From the side, the 458 is a smoothed out Enzo (which I'm totally OK with).
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, from every angle I prefer the 430 to the 360.

[Blue]

From the side, the 458 is a smoothed out Enzo (which I'm totally OK with).
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, from every angle I prefer the 430 to the 360.Well, the 430/360 debate doesn't really matter, it's more about comparing the 430 to the 458. I think the 458 is nicer than the 430 from every angle, and that's all that matters, really.

[TrinityJayOne]

Looks like a 430 that someone left out in the sun.

[HiredMan]

I agree with Blue. To my eyes, the 458 is much better resolved than the 430. Mind you, the 355 looks better than all of them IMHO.

[Surgeon.]

Just spotted a R35 GTR for the first time in the flesh, about 1 minute drive away from my house.

The driver had a huge grin on his face. Rich bastard. :p

[Shorty]

Just spotted a R35 GTR for the first time in the flesh, about 1 minute drive away from my house.

The driver had a huge grin on his face. Rich bastard. :p

I wonder why... :p

[Lazlow]

Because Miranda Kerr was in there giving him a BJ :D

[Clockw0rk]

Our flat is having a discussion and needs help with something.
In New Zealand, you can get your learner's licence at 15 by sitting a 50 question multiple choice Road Rules test and scoring 98%. On your L plates you must have a driver in the passenger seat who has had their full licence for over 2 years, and you can't drive between 10pm and 6am.
After 6 months you can sit your Restricted licence, which is a practical test. On your restricted you can drive by yourself and don't need to display any plates, but can't carry passengers and can't drive between 10pm and 6am.
You can sit a defensive driving course (which can be either theory or practical depending on the course provider) and reduce the time for your Restricted Licence from 18 to 12 months.
After the 12/18 months you can sit your full licence practical test and drive without restrictions.

What are Australia's licencing rules?

[Shorty]

Depends on the state.

In NSW, you first need to get your Learner's Permit by passing a multiple choice exam called the Driver Knowledge Test.

Then after at least 12 months (unless you're over 25) and 120 hours of tuition by another fully-licensed driver including 20 hours of night driving, you can take a practical test to get your P1s or "green P's". You're restricted from driving certain cars (turbocharged, supercharged, V8, V12 and high-performance 6's with some exceptions), your maximum speed is 90 km/h and if you get one speeding offence (even 1 km/h over the limit) you lose your license for 3 months.

After 12 months on that, you can take a video-based exam called the Hazard Perception Test to get your P2s or "Red Ps". The same restrictions apply, except your maximum speed is 100 km/h and you get two speeding offences before losing your license.

After 24 months on that, you can take the Driver Qualification Test (a combination of the HPT and DKT) to get your full license.

Simple, huh? :p

[Blue]

Just spotted a R35 GTR for the first time in the flesh, about 1 minute drive away from my house.

The driver had a huge grin on his face. Rich bastard. :pI saw one on the freeway a month ago, looked great. Saw one parked at a dealership a couple of days ago. And my mate's Dad just got his delivered last week. Doesn't look bad in white, actually, as far as I can tell from the photo.

Saw a 575 Maranello driving into the shopping centre car park yesterday. I'm not sure if I've ever seen one on the road before.

[Clockw0rk]

I saw a 911 GTsomething in Auckland a couple of weeks ago which was an awesome surprise and a nice change, there are plenty of Boxters and Carreras in Hamilton but nothing decent. There are about 3 GTRs in town and 2 Audi R8s, I see one of the R8s on a daily basis but the other is a bit less common.

Some awesome rare cars I've seen recently include a race spec TE27 Levin and a Honda City Turbo Convertible, the latter of which is totally freakin awesome.

[HiredMan]

I saw a 911 GTsomething in Auckland a couple of weeks ago which was an awesome surprise and a nice change, there are plenty of Boxters and Carreras in Hamilton but nothing decent. There are about 3 GTRs in town and 2 Audi R8s, I see one of the R8s on a daily basis but the other is a bit less common.

Did it have vents in front of the rear wheel arches? If it didn't, it was a GT3 (or possibly a GT3 RS, but most of those have massive script down the side identifying them). If it did, it was a GT2, and probably the fastest car you've seen this year :D

[Clockw0rk]

Did it have vents in front of the rear wheel arches? If it didn't, it was a GT3 (or possibly a GT3 RS, but most of those have massive script down the side identifying them). If it did, it was a GT2, and probably the fastest car you've seen this year :D
Wasn't a GT3 RS, I can recognise those :p
I honestly can't remember specifics, other than it was a white 911 and looked fast. Sorry :(

[Clockw0rk]

Might have just been a 911 Turbo now that I think about it.
In Flat Car related news, there's a set of 17x9s in the garage that we've been meaning to put on the Altezza. Since one of the guys is taking the Crown on a long distance trip this week and needs some better tyres, we've put them on that instead:

http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/1244/crown1g.jpg
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/7476/crown2.jpg

The rear tyres are 255s :eek:
Ballin'.

[Blue]

Ridiculous. :p

Nice wheels, though.

[Clockw0rk]

I forgot about my Warrant of Fitness and it's expired. I need new rear brake discs and new pads all round before I can get one.
Hopefully that's the only issue, I'm always scared of getting a WoF. Still, if that Crown can get one I should be sweet.

[HiredMan]

Stuttgart. Dr. Ing. h.c. F. Porsche AG, Stuttgart, is proudly presenting a new top model at the pinnacle of its broad range of production sports cars: The new Porsche 911 Turbo combines far-reaching innovations in technology with fine tuning and supreme refinement in design. All key features of this high-performance sports car have been significantly improved, the new 911 Turbo combining a substantial improvement in fuel efficiency and lower weight with more power, even higher speed, and enhanced driving dynamics.

Particularly in terms of fuel economy and dynamic performance, the new top-of-the-range 911 from Zuffenhausen now stands out even more than before from its competitors in the market. Porsche’s new top model will be presented to the public for the first time at the Frankfurt Motor Show from 17 – 27 September.

The heart and highlight of the seventh generation of the Turbo is the new power unit displacing 3.8 litres and delivering maximum output of 500 bhp (368 kW). The first entirely new engine in the 35-year-history of the Turbo comes with features such as Direct Fuel Injection and Porsche’s exclusive turbocharger with variable turbine geometry on a gasoline power unit. And as an option, the new six-cylinder may be combined for the first time with Porsche’s seven-speed PDK Doppelkupplungsgetriebe (Double-Clutch Gearbox).

Models equipped with PDK are also available with a new, optional three-spoke steering wheel with gearshift paddles as an alternative to the standard steering wheel with its proven shift buttons. Fitted firmly on the steering wheel, the right paddle is for shifting up, the left paddle for shifting down. In conjunction with the optional Sport Chrono Package Turbo both the gearshift paddle and the PDK steering wheel with its shift buttons come with integrated displays for Launch Control and the Sport/Sport Plus mode, which are however designed differently on the two steering wheels.

The combination of PDK, Direct Fuel Injection and turbocharging ensures an unprecedented standard of efficiency, agility, responsiveness and performance, the Porsche 911 Turbo reducing CO2 emissions versus its predecessor by almost 18 per cent and therefore ranking unique in its segment also in this respect. Depending on the configuration of the car, the new top model requires just 11.4 – 11.7 ltr/100 km (equal to 24.8 – 24.1 mpg imp) under the EU5 standard. And unlike most other cars in its segment, the new Turbo remains even further below the crucial level of fuel consumption for gas guzzler tax in the USA, the special tax imposed on cars with substantial fuel consumption. All this despite acceleration to 100 km/h in 3.4 seconds. Top speed, in turn, is 312 km/h or 194 mph.

The Turbo driver of the future will also enjoy a further improvement in driving dynamics, detailed enhancement of PTM fully controlled all-wheel drive and PSM Porsche Stability Management being further supported by new PTV Porsche Torque Vectoring available as an option. This makes the car even more agile and precise in its steering for an even higher level of driving pleasure.

Sales of the new Porsche 911 Turbo in both Coupé and Cabriolet guise are starting in Germany on 21 November 2009. The Euro base price without value-added tax and national specifications is Euro 122,400.- for the Coupé and Euro 131,800.- for the Cabriolet. The gross retail price in Germany, therefore, is Euro 145,871.- for the Coupé and Euro 157,057.- for the Cabriolet, in each case including 19% value-added tax and national specifications.

Sheeeeeiiiiiiiiit. Turbo is getting fast. Also rumored: Turbo S with 530bhp in 2010.

Pretty awesome that the PDK is now available with paddle shifters (by most reports, the buttons suck).

Pics:
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u152/HiredMan/PorscheTurbo2.jpg
http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u152/HiredMan/PorscheTurboMk2.jpg

[enrique]

Turbos getting fast alright, dont like those wheels, I much rather the ones fitted to the latest GT3, they look really sweet. Not a fan of those foglights in the front bumper either they look like pimples.

I'd much rather paddle shifters over buttons on anything not just a Porsche though.

[HiredMan]

I actually really like those wheels..... They have centre-lock wheelnuts now too by the look of em, so you could probably spec GT3 wheels if you did.....

Turbo's have always been fast, but 0-100km/h in 3.4 is hypercar territory, quicker than an Enzo, getting close to McLaren F1 times. It was expected though with the power increase and addition of PDK.

[Clockw0rk]

Cayman Shooting Brake was all an elaborate hoax. (http://jalopnik.com/5336892/how-to-dupe-the-automotive-media)
This makes me sad. The Shooting Brake looked pretty awesome.

[Shorty]

Passed a dark grey Phantom in traffic this evening. Looks spiffy. :cool:

[HiredMan]

Yeah saw the hoax news yesterday. Pretty good effort imho.

Anyways... new Turbo is ****ing fast eh?

[Clockw0rk]

0-100 in 3.4 seconds? Yeah... I guess that's kinda fast. :p
I doubt it can maintain all those environmental standards while being thrashed round a track, but still it's a good achievement.
Looks-wise, it's a 911. Looks the same as the last one.
Wheels are cool but need more dish.

[enrique]

Passed a dark grey Phantom in traffic this evening. Looks spiffy. :cool:

Sweet, I'd so take one of them over a Maybach anyday, I'd have to win the lottery first. :)

[Clockw0rk]

Crown is dead. More later. We're drinking to its memory.

[kirok]

Ford?

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/7205/fordfpvfgfalcon1.jpg (http://img232.imageshack.us/i/fordfpvfgfalcon1.jpg/)


Or Holden?

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/5294/holdenvpcommodore02.jpg (http://img187.imageshack.us/i/holdenvpcommodore02.jpg/)

Which would you rather drive? :D

[Shorty]

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu328/zerosignal/wheels3.jpg

Neither. :cool:

[texta]

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu328/zerosignal/wheels3.jpg

neither. :cool:Quoted for truth.

I'm thinking about getting a new car next year, possibly a beamer but not sure yet.

[Blue]

Crown is dead. More later. We're drinking to its memory.Aw.

Did the wheels survive?

[enrique]

Crown is dead. More later. We're drinking to its memory.

I'm intrigued. What happened?

As for Holden or Ford.............

After seeing and hearing a black C63 AMG drive past me yesterday, I'd take it over both. Im a Holden man and all but that is one awesome car. Just the drive by rumble was enough to make me smile. :)

http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq232/richoimage/C_63_AMG_Grille_Black_1024x768.jpg

[Blue]

It's gorgeous, too.

I haven't seen a new E Class in the metal yet, but that's a nice car as well.

[Shorty]

c9wbe2HNrAg

[Clockw0rk]

Right, the Crown.
We'd had some mechanical troubles with it, it severely overheated in town a while back and broke a few things. Alan took it to a mechanic and got it running again, minus the air conditioning. Everything was fine for about 2 weeks, then Michael, one of the other flatmates, needed it for a trip down to Palmerston North so he loaded it up and off he went. Naturally, it overheated in the middle of goddamn nowhere so he left it at a nearby farm (with permission of the property owners) and made his way to Palmy with the help of his parents.

Now, Michael is a lazy sonofabitch and so decided not to head back to Hamilton after his trip, and instead stayed a couple of nights with his parents. Alan and I were charged with getting the Crown back. He gave us some directions and off we went, in a Holden ute with a trailer for the Crown.

You'll want to follow Google Maps here to get an idea of the scope of the ****up:

Michael's Path
Hamilton, State Highway 1, south to Tokoroa
Switch to SH32, down West Side of Lake Taupo
Breaks down at 1045 Tihoi Road

Alan's path, based off Michael's directions
"Just south of Whakamaru, if you get to Turangi you've gone too far"
Hamilton, SH1, south to Tokoroa
Keep on SH1, south to Taupo
South of Taupo to Turangi
Realise we've made a mistake, call Michael, abuse him for giving wrong directions
Turnoff to SH41 from Turangi
At Kuratau Junction, turn onto SH32
Head up to 1045 Tihoi Road

We then spent a good half hour loading the Crown onto the trailer. This was mostly done by Alan winching it on while I pushed, since we couldn't drive it up onto the trailer without it stalling (suspected cracked head). I eventually had the bright idea of leaving it in Drive and getting out to push while Alan winched, letting the gearbox do most of the work without giving it any throttle. This almost resulted in the Crown cruising forwards and jumping off the trailer, but thankfully we avoided that, tied it down, and headed off.

Your average Stock Car weighs about... 800kg? The Crown weighs more than twice that, so the single axle stock car trailer wasn't an ideal towing platform. Our trip back up SH32 averaged about 50kph, and the rest of the trip from Tokoroa onwards probably averaged about 65kph. It was slow going, and with a single axle it was very, very sketchy.

Once we got back to the flat it was unceremoniously dumped off the trailer, rolled into the backyard and left there. Alan and I bought a bunch of woodstocks, got really drunk and played Trials until 3:30am while bitching about Michael's shitty directions and lazy-ass "not my problem" attitude.

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/4329/image006clb.jpg

Before you ask: I kinda lied about the rear wheels when I took that photo a few weeks back. We found out after we tried to move the Crown that they were just touching the suspension, so we had to take them off and use the original Crown wheels on the rear. Not nearly as gangsta :(



2 more cellphone pictures, while I'm getting photos off it:
Levin Targa Car:
http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/5774/image005fdu.jpg

The 'Tezza's engine bay during the upgrades:
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/6624/image004tub.jpg

[enrique]

New Veyron Sang Bleu, no mechanical changes but damn it looks nice. Its probably my favourite special edition so far. They've only made one and its already sold.

http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq232/richoimage/2009-Bugatti-Veyron-Sang-Bleu-Side-.jpg
http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq232/richoimage/2009-Bugatti-Veyron-Sang-Bleu-Si-1.jpg

[Clockw0rk]

Is that the Pur Sang version of the GranSport?

[enrique]

Pretty much.

So what now for the Crown Clockw0rk?

[Clockw0rk]

I don't know yet. We still don't know what's wrong with it, my guess is that Alan will send it to a mechanic and if the bill to fix it is too high it'll just end up on Trademe with a $1 reserve. Even if it has a cracked head, the 1G-GZE will still fetch a decent price.

[Clockw0rk]

2010 GT3 RS Announced (suck it HM, got in before you :p)

3.8 litre NA Boxer, 450hp @ 8500rpm. 12 inch wide rear wheels with 325s :eek:

Delivering even more engine power, lower weight and shorter transmission ratios, as well as upgraded body and suspension components than all previous GT3s, the new Porsche 911 GT3 RS sets the foundation for homologating the race version of the 911 GT3 and will be introduced at the Frankfurt Motor Show September 17-27, 2009.

The heart of the new, uncompromising GT3 RS is the power unit. Like the engine featured in the 911 GT3, the naturally-aspirated RS power unit now displaces 3.8 liters and delivers even more power, while revving up even faster to its 8500 rpm redline. It now delivers 450 horsepower, 15 more horsepower than its 911 GT3 counterpart. Even with a specific output of more than 118 hp per liter from the six-cylinder boxer engine, the power unit in the new GT3 RS remains fully suitable for everyday use.

The new 911 GT3 RS comes exclusively with a six-speed manual gearbox optimized for short gearshift travel, low weight and high efficiency. To enhance the level of performance throughout the entire range of engine and road speed, the transmission comes with shorter ratios than found in the 911 GT3, deliberately conceding an even higher potential top track speed.

Dynamic engine mounts are standard and serve to improve the car's handling to an even higher level. Depending on driving conditions, the mounts change in their stiffness and damping effect, improving the connection between the engine and the body when driving under very lively conditions, yet allow for more comfortable conditions during everyday street use.

Porsche is also introducing another new option in 2010 for the GT3 RS, a lithium-ion battery. Delivered with the car and, when replacing the conventional lead-acid battery, it reduces the weight by more than 10 kg or 22 lb and is mainly intended for the track.

To further improve its sporting behavior, the new 911 GT3 RS comes with a purpose-built and specially set up PASM suspension, a wider front and rear track and corresponding bodywork.

The front axle comes with nine-inch-wide wheels running on 245/35 ZR 19 sports tires while the rear axle features twelve-inch-wide wheels incorporating 325/30 ZR 19 sports tires.

The new 911 GT3 RS shows its close connection to motorsport through its dynamic looks, in particular by its low ride height, the new, extra large carbon-fiber rear wing and titanium exhaust system.

The 2010 911 GT3 RS goes on sale in the U.S. in early spring of 2010 and will be priced at $132,800.

http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/6779/porschegt3rs2010.jpg
http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/7236/porschegt3rs201001.jpg
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/1548/porschegt3rs201002.jpg
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/5833/porschegt3rs201004.jpg
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/2928/porschegt3rs201005.jpg

[HiredMan]

Goddamn... I just came... twice. Pep if I could Clocky :)

Pretty sure the last RS had 12" rears, just with slightly smaller section tyres (305 or 315 from memory). Maybe they were 11.5".

This will surely crack 4 seconds for the 0-100km/h sprint and lap tracks quicker than anything (this side of a Zonda :))...... s'cuse me while I go and have another wank.

EDIT: 0-100km/h is 4 seconds dead (although that is a Porsche figure I believe, which are usually pretty conservative).

[HiredMan]

Sorry for the double post.

Newsflash: Gumpert Apollo Sport smashes Nurburgring production car lap record. The time for other manufacturers to beat is now 7:11.57 (http://jalopnik.com/5341051/gumpert-apollo-sport-sets-nurburgring-production-lap-record), beating the Dodge Viper ACR by 11 seconds.

Man, I love the Apollo. It's ugly but so purposeful. What an awesome machine.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b211/Froglauncher/Cars/gumpert_apollo_sport.jpg

[enrique]

Good on Gumpert! When the Gumpert first came out I thought it was ugly but now its getting better in my eyes, its no beauty but its not as ugly as I used to think it was.

BTW a road registered Radical SR8LM on road legal tyres lapped a 6:48 at the Ring yesterday. The Poms recognise the Radical as a roadcar but everyone else (especially ze Germans) think otherwise.

In my eyes the Gumpert is the mark, it has a roof and doors...........

I hope no one comes anywhere near Stefan Bellof's record (you would have to be on slicks anyway). 6:11 what an incredibly brave and talented young man. That mark should stand for all eternity.

[HiredMan]

I hope no one comes anywhere near Stefan Bellof's record (you would have to be on slicks anyway). 6:11 what an incredibly brave and talented young man. That mark should stand for all eternity.

I doubt anyone will beat it, as a mark of respect to Bellof. This is the reason why when they run F1 cars round the Nordchleife they never set official times, even though these cars would probably be capable of a sub 5 minute lap on maximum attack.

And yes, other "street legal" cars have set lower times than the Gumpert (Radical, Donkervoort et al), but these are not true production cars in my eyes (most of them can only be registered in their country of origin).

The Gumpert is the high watermark.

[Clockw0rk]

I love everything about the Apollo, including the looks (proper gullwing doors, none of this scissor crap) - stoked about the new production record!

[enrique]

Donkervoot is pretty much a Caterham with a roof.

[Clockw0rk]

Yeah, it's a super modified Lotus 7.

[Blue]

That is ugly, but who cares.

So what would you guys consider to be the mark of the world's best production car? The Veyron's enormous top speed and all of that crap, with luxury interior, or the fastest lap of the 'Ring? It's obvious Nissan and Porsche placed a lot of importance on the 'Ring time last year. It'd be interesting to know what the Veyron can do it in, because despite the fact that its a feat of engineering, it's not really a race car, is it. That's why the McLaren F1 still impresses to this day, because it was a great track car.

Anyway, the point is, it's great to see the 'Ring time toppling so frequently. It's a really good indicator of progress. It won't be long until sub-7:00.

[Clockw0rk]

Wheels magazine took the Veyron round the Ring in 07:40 according to Wikipedia. Pretty impressive for such a heavy car, then again by all accounts it's actually pretty good on the track despite its weight.

Found this on Jalopnik:
eNBBvn7n0NU

[Shorty]

You want to talk "heavy"? Pink Floyd drummer Nick Mason once took his Phantom on a hot lap around the 'Ring (http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=43948). :cool:

So what would you guys consider to be the mark of the world's best production car? The Veyron's enormous top speed and all of that crap, with luxury interior, or the fastest lap of the 'Ring? It's obvious Nissan and Porsche placed a lot of importance on the 'Ring time last year. It'd be interesting to know what the Veyron can do it in, because despite the fact that its a feat of engineering, it's not really a race car, is it. That's why the McLaren F1 still impresses to this day, because it was a great track car.

I think the rest of your paragraph pretty much sums up my point - it all depends on what metric you're using. Something like they Veyron is mostly about numbers - the most powerful, the fastest, the most expensive - whereas 'Ring time relies on more complicated factors like power-to-weight ratio, power curves and proper weight distribution. So I'd consider the Veyron to be an incredible car but not necessarily for the same reasons that I would call the Viper ACR incredible.

[HiredMan]

I wouldn't be stunned if the new GT3 RS dips under 7:30 on the Nordschleife (with Mr Rohrl behind the wheel). Porsche > all :D

[Shorty]

Speaking of Porsches and the 'Ring, the 2010 Panamera Turbo recently lapped the course in 7:56, three seconds faster than the Cadillac CTS-V, making it (unofficially) the fastest lap time for a four-door production sedan.

[Clockw0rk]

Replaced one brake disc on the Celica and one set of brake pads.
****ed up the second disc so it's off to the mechanic tomorrow to get him to fix it.
Pretty annoyed at myself :(

[Ryan Hayward]

How often do you guys wash your car during winter? My car is generally left 50 percent of the day exposed, so is it really worth washing it once a fortnight?

[Clockw0rk]

Just wash it when it's dirty?
Anyway, what happened was I tried to get the disc off while the handbrake was still on. Disc is now jammed on and the handbrake is permanently on on one side. Can't drive it to the mechanic so I've sorted out a trailer and we'll tow it there tomorrow evening. I'll chat to him during the day and see what he says, hopefully it's not going to be an expensive fix. Getting that disc off will be a mission though :(

[enrique]

Bring on spring!

2010 Maserati GranCabrio

I Iove it, simply gorgeous! And it has the more powerful engine from the GranTurismo S coupe. :)

http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq232/richoimage/grancabrio_02.jpg
http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq232/richoimage/grancabrio_04.jpg
http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq232/richoimage/grancabrio_03.jpg
http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq232/richoimage/grancabrio_01.jpg

[Blue]

http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq232/richoimage/grancabrio_01.jpghttp://www.autospies.com/images/users/carlover99/ford-mondeo-titanium-x-2.jpg

Ugly.

[enrique]

Blue I assume your talking about the Mondeo, right? ;)

[Clockw0rk]

Brakes are fixed, car is warranted and the mechanic even tightened up the handbrake cable and fixed the power steering while it was in the shop. He's having trouble with the IC spray bar, it's all plumbed up but the wiring is a bit tricky so it's going back there in a couple of weeks for another shot. I also got a fire extinguisher bolted in the passenger footwell, which is all it needs for a bit of weekend Autocross ^_^

In the best car news I've heard all week, VW is going to axe the useless Panamera and Cayenne models (http://www.autoobserver.com/2009/08/porsches-off-message-models-axed-in-vw-takeover.html). About time, too!

[enrique]

Brakes are fixed, car is warranted and the mechanic even tightened up the handbrake cable and fixed the power steering while it was in the shop. He's having trouble with the IC spray bar, it's all plumbed up but the wiring is a bit tricky so it's going back there in a couple of weeks for another shot. I also got a fire extinguisher bolted in the passenger footwell, which is all it needs for a bit of weekend Autocross ^_^

In the best car news I've heard all week, VW is going to axe the useless Panamera and Cayenne models (http://www.autoobserver.com/2009/08/porsches-off-message-models-axed-in-vw-takeover.html). About time, too!

Awesome on both counts. Cayenne's an ugly mother. Have fun with the autocross. :)

[HiredMan]

Man, thats a quite puzzling move by the VW board.

The Cayenne is probably the most profitable model that Porsche makes, and axing it will deliver all of it's sales directly to Porsche's rivals in the sector, namely BMW (X5, X6), Land Rover (Range Rover) and Mercedes-Benz (ML class), as VW does not make a luxury/performance 4WD (the Tuareg is in a class below the ones from the other companies).

The axing of the Panamera is even more puzzling..... Porsche were going to make a killing with that car. What is VW planning to compete with in that segment? The Phaeton? They sold about 3 of those last year......

I guess they'll still be selling them until the end of the model cycle (7 odd years) so that may give VW time to develop it's own models to compete in those segments, but still, VW does not have the brand cachet to go directly against BMW and M-B (and Porsche does, it's actually more prestigious than those two).

It's great that Porsche will only be making sportscars again, but I sincerely hope that VW doesn't **** up my beloved Porsche..... doesn't really seem like the board is thinking straight by binning 2 of Porsche's most profitable models.....

[HiredMan]

A legend is back. Porsche today unveiled a modern interpretation of its legendary 1973 Carrera RS 2.7, complete with a 'ducktail' spoiler and ‘Fuchs-style’ custom alloy wheels. The new car is called the 911 Sport Classic and it’s set to grace the automaker’s stand at this month’s Frankfurt auto show.

The latest model will be limited to just 250 units worldwide when it goes on sale early next year and both right- and left-hand-drive models will be available.

Other unique elements of the car include its 'double bubble' roof, similar to the design seen on the Carrera GT supercar and some of Porsche’s racing cars, as well as a new front spoiler, bi-xenon headlamps with black surrounds and the Sport Chrono Package Plus.

Although based on the Carrera S, the 911 Sport Classic gets the 44 mm wider body of the Carrera 4S and a 400 horsepower version of the legendary 3.8-liter flat-six engine. The extra power is courtesy of a new intake and engine management system, as well as modified cylinder heads.

There is also the new variable-resonance intake system, featuring six vacuum-controlled flaps that optimize the oscillation of air in the intake manifold for a better cylinder charge. This ensures there is the perfect amount of air in the combustion chamber at all times to optimize torque, which peaks at 310 pound-feet at 4,200 rpm.

The end result is a 0-62 mph time of just 4.6 seconds and a top speed of 187 mph. Other modifications include a 20 mm suspension lowering kit, a limited-slip differential, and carbon-ceramic brakes.

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I think I'm in love :D Would have been nice if it'd had a bit of the RS lightening treatment, but with 400bhp I don't think I care. Look at the Fuchs rims! Look at the ducktail! I'd have it in Viper green with black Fuchs and black Carrera script down the sides.

Reckon this is now my second favorite 997 after the Mk.2 GT3 RS.

Bound to be a sound investment too with only 250 being produced......

[TrinityJayOne]

Yeah that is very sexy! I'm still a 997T man though.

[Blue]

Front wing is fiddly, ducktail spoiler is dated, rear overhang remains cumbersome.

Other than that, it looks just as good or bad as every other Porshe in existence.

Apart from the 928. Gorgeous car.

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[HiredMan]

Yeah, front spoiler is a bit fiddly, probably my least favorite aspect of the car. Ducktail is a nod to the '73 RS, I would call it "classic" rather than dated. Rear overhang looks cumbersome? It's a 911 dude :p rear overhang looks that way because it has a flat six in it!

Agree about the 928 being georgeous, but I still like the 911's looks better. Any generation, with the exception of the 996 (most of those looked crap).

[enrique]

I like it a lot except for those wheels which dont suit the modern 911 at all. And I've seen the interior, they got it so wrong! Needs some decent wheels (GT3) interior and GT2 driveline. :) Love the ducktail though, that's so nice.

[HiredMan]

Fuchs rims are my favorite part! To each their own I guess :)

If they'd wanted to make it a true successor to the original RS, what they chould have done was have an option to put the Fuchs rims and ducktail on a GT3 RS. That would be awesome.

I still love it though. BTW its ****in expensive, if you convert the Euro price to US dollars it actually costs more than a GT2 I think...... (moot as it's not going to be available in the US)

[Clockw0rk]

If I can afford the gas I'll be at a Gymkhana event in Wellington in 2 weeks time. Woo!

[HiredMan]

The press release is massive so I'll post the pics first......

McLaren MP4-12C revealed!

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[HiredMan]

Part 1

The McLaren MP4-12C is revealed as the first in a range of high-performance sports cars from McLaren Automotive, the independent car division based at the McLaren Technology Centre in Woking, England. The 12C, and future models within the range, will challenge the world's best sports cars, benefiting from the expertise and virtuosity of the McLaren Group.

Twenty years of sports car design, engineering and production combined with inspirational success in Formula 1 have driven Ron Dennis, McLaren Automotive Chairman, to announce his plans for the ultimate line-up of technology-led and customer-focused performance cars for the 21st century. The rules in the sports car world are about to be re-written.

Through a rich modern history, McLaren's automotive division has already built the world's most critically acclaimed supercar, the McLaren F1 (1993-1998) and the world's best-selling luxury supercar, the Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren (2003-2009). McLaren Automotive now looks to the future with a new range of revolutionary sports cars.

"It is a long-held dream of mine to launch high performance sports cars that set new standards in the industry," said Dennis.

"We began designing and building cars for aficionados of thoroughbred sports cars almost 20 years ago. Incorporating the leading edge technologies that the McLaren Group has built up within its various companies, I believe we are now perfectly placed to open up this new chapter in McLaren's history as well as play a part in the regeneration of high-tech manufacturing in the UK and global automotive environment," he concluded.

At its heart, the McLaren MP4-12C features a revolutionary carbon fibre chassis structure, the Carbon MonoCell: the first time a car in this market segment is based around such a strong and lightweight racing car engineering solution and the first time any car has ever featured a one-piece carbon fibre structure.

This step change in sports car design means that the 12C introduces new standards not just in handling, ride and outright performance, but also safety, economy and practicality in an already competitive sector.

Martin Whitmarsh, Team Principal of McLaren's racing team highlighted the integral part that McLaren's motorsport and road car experience played in developing the 12C: "McLaren has for years offered a potent mix of race car and road car technologies. This combination of McLaren's performance heritage, and future demands on what is expected of high performance sports cars in the 21st century, gave us a head-start when we embarked on this project. The 12C, and future variants, draws on the spirit of Formula 1 and delivers real-world technological advances."

The first car from the new company, the McLaren MP4-12C, is a high performance two-seat mid-engine model in the 'core' sports car market segment for cars costing between £125,000 and £175,000. The 12C is pure McLaren, featuring no carryover parts from any other car, and will be produced by McLaren in the UK. It goes on sale through a dedicated, worldwide retailer network in early 2011.

"McLaren is already a car maker with maturity and experience, having produced iconic cars such as the F1," said Antony Sheriff, McLaren Automotive Managing Director.

"The next step was to construct a range of pure McLaren high performance sports cars that are true to the company's philosophy and reflect our position as an absolute technology and performance leader. So, when we embarked on the 12C project, we wanted to re-write the rules of sports car design. Indeed, the 12C offers performance and technology that exceeds that of the world's most expensive and sophisticated supercars, while competing in a much more accessible market segment. And to achieve this result, we designed every component from scratch to meet the extreme goals of the 12C and avoid any compromise."

"Forget what you know about sports car companies, McLaren is different," he concluded.


Inside out

The heart of the new car is the Carbon MonoCell. McLaren pioneered the use of carbon composite construction in the 1981 Formula 1 MP4/1 model and set a trend that all Formula 1 teams have followed. The company brought carbon fibre to road cars for the first time with the 1993 McLaren F1 and then built on this experience with a carbon fibre chassis and body on the SLR manufactured to the same exacting standards, but in higher volumes.

So, until now, carbon chassis have remained the preserve of the most expensive exotic cars; a purchase for the super-rich where costs are driven by the complexity of carbon fibre chassis design and build.

The 12C changes this by introducing the advantages of carbon composite - light weight, high strength and torsional rigidity, and longevity – to a more affordable sector through its revolutionary engineering as a one-piece moulding. Never before has a carbon fibre chassis been produced this way.

The 12C MonoCell not only brings dynamic benefits, but also offers fundamental engineering opportunities that form the basis of the car's unique character. It has been designed to allow a much narrower structure overall which in turn contributes to a more compact car that is easier to position on the road and more rewarding to drive.

Not only is the 12C unique in its class by offering carbon technology, it also has the highest specific power output as well as extraordinary power- and torque-to-weight ratios. Furthermore, the Proactive Chassis Control system offers groundbreaking handling and ride comfort while an intense focus on occupant packaging offers new levels of comfort and everyday usability.

Antony Sheriff explained. "With the 12C we are redefining the relationship between performance and practicality, as well as performance and efficiency, achieving leading positions in both. We have designed this car from the inside out. We have a saying in McLaren – 'everything for a reason' and the 12C will surprise people in many ways.

"A clear illustration of its special qualities is in the efficiency of its power delivery. With the 12C's power output of around 600hp and its low CO2 emissions, it delivers the highest horsepower to CO2 ratio of any car on the market today with an internal combustion engine...and that includes petrol and diesel hybrids," Sheriff concluded.


Pure McLaren

All the parts of the McLaren MP4-12C are bespoke and unique to this car. Everything from the engine right down to the tailor-made switches and buttons is pure McLaren: nothing has come from another manufacturer's parts bin.

The 12C is powered by a bespoke McLaren 'M838T' 3.8 litre, V8 twin-turbo engine producing around 600bhp, driving through a McLaren seven speed Seamless Shift dual clutch gearbox (SSG). It is targeting not only new standards for power and performance in its sector, but also class-leading fuel economy and CO2 emissions; supported by McLaren's experience of active aerodynamics to aid cooling, grip, handling and road holding.

"The 12C is all about performance," said Sheriff. "And in McLaren, we have a very broad definition of performance. We don't just look at the traditional one-dimensional parameters like top speed, we focus equally on useable measures such as in-gear acceleration times, braking performance in all conditions, and efficiency of power delivery combined with the lowest possible fuel consumption and CO2 emissions. Sure, 12C is very fast, but it is also the most efficient, most driveable high-performance sports car in the world.

"In the more subjective areas of road-holding, handling, comfort, driver involvement and day-to-day usability, McLaren is achieving new standards for a mid-engined high performance sports car in this sector," he concluded.

Thorough engineering and market research led to concept development and a clear decision in favour of a mid-engined two door high performance sports car. Intensive work was carried out in the wind tunnel and the driving simulator to ensure that the new car would inherently have superb dynamic qualities.

Dick Glover, McLaren Automotive Technical Director, was closely involved with the development of these invaluable tools during his time with McLaren's Formula 1 race team.

"There are so many examples of race car process and technology transfer in the 12C," claimed Glover. "The car owes much to McLaren's experience and success in motor sport. The advantage of technology transfer is only one element; speed of decision-making and development, F1 processes and people all make an important contribution.

"Brake Steer, for example, is a technology we pioneered on our Formula 1 car back in 1997. It helps to dial out understeer on entry to a corner and improves traction on the way out. Another is the Pre-Cog function on the gearshift rocker that effectively primes the gearbox ready for the next change, ensuring a more satisfying and faster gearchange. This is a high performance sports car with race car genes and teamwork at its heart."

[HiredMan]

Part 2

Adding lightness

Weight is the enemy of performance in every area of car design. It affects acceleration, speed, handling, fuel consumption and CO2 emissions – everything. McLaren Automotive engineers pursued weight saving obsessively. For example:

• The Carbon MonoCell not only reduces the weight of the structure but also allows for the use of much lighter weight body panels.

• The close position of the driver and passenger allows a narrower, lighter body while giving improved visibility with a clearer perception of the car's extremities.

• Brakes with forged aluminium hubs save 8 kg and weigh less than optional carbon ceramic brakes.

• Lightweight exhaust pipes exit straight out the rear of the car, minimizing their length and weight.

• Airflow-assisted Airbrake deployment dramatically reduces weight of the Airbrake activation system.

• Small, compact downsized engine coupled to lightweight compact SSG minimizes vehicle length, weight and polar moment of inertia.

• Significant weight was pared off the alloy wheels through intensive Finite Element Analysis of wall thicknesses.

• The engine cooling radiators were mounted at the rear, as close to the engine as possible, to minimize the pipework, the fluids contained within them, and therefore weight. They were also mounted in car line to minimize vehicle width.

"We have spent most of the programme 'adding lightness'," said Mark Vinnels, McLaren Automotive Programme Director. "If the cost of reducing weight brought performance gains in speed, handling or economy, we did it. However, if the expense could deliver improved performance elsewhere we didn't pursue it. We never set weight targets as such; we set cost-to-performance targets and examined everything in this way.

"A good example of this philosophy is that we considered carbon fibre body panels. They would have reduced weight but added little benefit as the new one-piece Carbon MonoCell provides all of the torsional strength the body needs. The costs saved were used elsewhere for greater weight reduction and efficiencies overall. This was the holistic approach to weight saving that we used all the way through development," he concluded.


Design: everything for a reason

The McLaren MP4-12C design follows similar principles to McLaren's Formula 1 cars, and the legendary McLaren F1, where everything is for a reason and all lines, surfaces, and details are designed with a job in mind as much as styled. This ensures that the 12C communicates its engineering through its styling and will remain timeless as a piece of automotive design.

Frank Stephenson, McLaren Automotive Design Director: "Many sports cars and super cars present an 'in-your-face', 'look-at-me' image that can become wearing and boorish; the ultimate backhanded compliment becomes, "...it was of its time". Great design, however, is timeless and looks relevant years later. Take the McLaren F1 as an example. I hope that with the 12C we have produced a car that looks great today and will still look great in years to come."

The 12C's body has been styled to support sector-leading levels of downforce; downforce that then subsequently contributes to sector-leading levels of lateral grip and stability. Air flow has been manically managed to support all performance figures and light weight targets. For example, placing the radiators adjacent to the engine keeps the car narrow and reduces weight. However, this results in a huge challenge of ensuring ample air flow to the radiators. The result? The large side air scoops and integrated turning vanes that are dramatic, but purely functional. No larger or smaller than required.

The designer's challenge is to then take that styling purpose driven by engineering aspirations and add personality. That's why the air scoops resemble the McLaren logo in form, as do other features around the car.
Just two 'pure' lines flow round the car and, when combined with the integration of several dramatic convex and concave surfaces, present a car that looks compact, low and well proportioned.


The market opportunity for McLaren

"I am confident that now is the right time for McLaren Automotive to become a full line high performance sports car manufacturer," stated Ron Dennis.

"Worldwide demand for high performance cars is strong, in large part because of great cars from great competitors. With McLaren joining that list, it will grow stronger still. What we are offering is a new approach to the market, through a skilled, solid, debt-free and risk-managed company. McLaren is right to take this step now and support future growth of high-technology manufacturing and engineering jobs in the UK," Dennis declared.

The market for high performance sports cars has grown substantially since the turn of the century. McLaren divides the market into segments that encompass both more comfort–orientated GT cars and the hard-edged supercars for road and track use.

The 'core' segment runs from around £125,000 to £175,000 featuring such cars as the Ferrari 458, Lamborghini Gallardo, Porsche 911 Turbo, Bentley Continental GT and Aston Martin DB9. A second segment is the 'high' category with prices ranging from £175,000 to £250,000 and consists largely of front-engined GT cars such as Ferrari's 599 GTB and 612, with just one mid-engined contender, the Lamborghini Murcielago.

The final segment is the 'ultimate' group, a sector more or less initiated by the McLaren F1 in 1993 and now populated by a select group of cars including the Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren, Bugatti Veyron, and cars from the likes of Pagani and Koenigsegg that followed legends such as the Porsche Carrera GT and Ferrari Enzo. In 2011, McLaren will bring technology and performance exclusive to this 'ultimate' sector into the 'core' segment.

Although the recent economic downturn has affected the performance car sector, just as it has the entire motor industry, McLaren Automotive believes that the 'core' segment's growth from 8,000 sales in 2000 to more than 28,000 in 2007 highlights the potential that exists and that it will soon return to at least 2007 levels.

"By the time the 12C is launched in 2011 we expect the economic conditions to be much improved. We have already seen significant interest in the car and the supply of the 12C will be relatively scarce; in its first year we plan to produce just 1,000 cars which represents only 3.5 per cent of the 'core' market," explained Antony Sheriff.

"We have created ground-breaking new technology, lightweight engineering solutions, and harnessed real-world motor racing applications. It brings new levels of performance, fuel efficiency and practicality to the 12C's segment. And it will be more exclusive than its principal competition with a price that reflects its lack of ubiquity," he said.

McLaren Automotive will distribute the 12C and future models through a brand-new retail network in all global markets.

Exclusivity, exquisite design and a passionate focus on delivering a wonderful ownership experience will ensure that the small number of retailers around the world are taking on an attractive new brand. This approach will drive excellent customer service and a virtuous circle that retains McLaren customers and brings in new converts as the range expands.

[HiredMan]

Part 3

McLaren MP4-12C - what's in a name?


The name of the new McLaren sports car is MP4-12C.

What does this signify? As one might expect at McLaren, everything has a purpose and the nomenclature is no exception.

• 'MP4' has been the chassis designation for all McLaren Formula 1 cars since 1981. It stands for McLaren Project 4, resulting from the merger of Ron Dennis' Project 4 organisation with McLaren.

• The '12' refers to McLaren's internal Vehicle Performance Index through which it rates key performance criteria both for competitors and for its own cars. The criteria combine power, weight, emissions, and aerodynamic efficiency. The coalition of all these values delivers an overall performance index that has been used as a benchmark throughout the car's development.

• The 'C' refers to Carbon, highlighting the unique application of carbon fibre technology to the future range of McLaren sports cars.

The elements of this name represent everything that the McLaren MP4-12C stands for:


• 'MP4' represents the racing bloodline

• '12' represents the focus on complete performance and efficiency


• 'C' represents the revolutionary Carbon MonoCell

"We are very proud of the McLaren MP4-12C and all the teamwork, intelligent thought and sheer effort that have gone into developing this car. What drives people at McLaren is passion – if you cut them, they bleed McLaren. And there is no doubt in my mind that the 12C fully reflects that focus, drive and determination in its performance, style and ownership potential," said Ron Dennis, McLaren Automotive Chairman.

"This is the start of an exciting new chapter in McLaren's history, in British high-technology engineering and manufacturing, and in global sports car design. We aim to be the best, but will leave that ultimate judgement to our first customers in 2011. Until then, we will strive to put one name at the top of the 'most wanted' list for buyers of high performance sports cars: 'McLaren'," he concluded.


The McLaren MP4-12C: inside and out, and in detail


A carbon fibre heart

Light weight and performance are defining philosophies at McLaren. But outright power alone is of little significance if a car's weight saps output or if that power is unmanageable and compromises the driving experience or results in unacceptable emissions.

Fundamentally, it is critical to keep weight as low as possible. Increased customer demands for safety and advanced features all mean that shaving weight is ever more difficult. However, at McLaren saving weight remains a passion and at the heart of the McLaren MP4-12C is a carbon fibre composite chassis: the Carbon MonoCell.

This revolutionary structure is the automotive version of a McLaren innovation that started with Formula 1 back in 1981 and delivers both weight savings and performance gains. It is a technology cascade in which McLaren brought carbon composite technology from the aerospace industry to make the MP4/1 F1 car, the first Formula 1 car to benefit from the strength, weight and safety of carbon fibre.

McLaren's Formula 1 carbon fibre technology then offered the company the opportunity of applying its expertise to road car applications. The first ever road car to be constructed of this material was the McLaren F1 produced in 1993, albeit in small numbers. The F1 was followed by the Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren that also shared this rare expertise.

Only a handful of other cars in the market offer such technology today and all of them lie in the 'ultimate' segment. No manufacturer has brought the advantages of carbon composite technology to a more affordable sector of the market. But the 12C does, through engineering passion and a relentless pursuit of efficiency.

So, McLaren did it first with the F1, the world's fastest car for many years, then in the highest volume with SLR, which almost doubled the volume of the next highest produced carbon fibre-based high performance sports car by selling over 2,100 units. Now, through revolutionary one-piece moulding of the MonoCell, McLaren brings a carbon composite chassis down to the 'core' category, where currently only traditional metal structures are offered.

The advantages this technology brings are light weight, high torsional rigidity, a very strong safety cell, low perishability, ease of repair and extreme dimensional accuracy.

The 12C MonoCell weighs less than 80 kg. Carbon fibre contributes to the car's low overall weight and it forms the structural basis for the whole car. The tub's torsional rigidity is considerably stiffer than a comparable alloy structure.

This inherent lack of flex means the unique front suspension system, which is mounted directly onto the MonoCell, requires less compromise for flex of the suspension itself. Therefore, it is easier to develop the unique balance between fine ride and precise handling that McLaren has targeted. The MonoCell also offers greater occupant safety. It acts as a safety survival cell, as it does for a Formula 1 car.

Carbon composites do not degrade over time like metal structures that fatigue. One is able to get into a 15-year-old McLaren F1 and there is none of the tiredness or lack of structural integrity that afflicts traditional cars that have suffered a hard life. The 12C will feel as good as new in this respect for decades.

And in the event of an accident, the light weight aluminium alloy front and rear structures are designed to absorb impact forces in a crash and can be replaced relatively easily. Aluminium extrusions and castings are jig welded into the finished assembly and bolted directly to the MonoCell. Cars with full aluminium chassis use their structure to absorb and crumple on impact, which implies more fundamental damage (and expense) to the whole structure, including the passenger cell, in a major accident.

McLaren has pioneered a new carbon fibre production process that allows the MonoCell to be produced to exacting quality standards, in a single piece, in only four hours, compared to the dozens of carbon components (and dozens of production hours) that normally feature in a carbon fibre chassis structure. This naturally brings huge efficiency and quality benefits. The MonoCell project is managed by Claudio Santoni, McLaren Automotive Body Structures Function Manager.

"It was clear that we needed to develop a car with a carbon fibre structure. After all, McLaren has never made a car with a metal chassis!" said Santoni.

"The whole 12C project is based on the concept of the MonoCell. This means that McLaren can launch into the market with greater performance than our rivals and a safer structure. To put it into perspective, if the costs and complexity of producing a McLaren F1 carbon fibre chassis are taken as a factor of 100, the 12C chassis production costs are reduced to a factor of seven or eight, without degrading the strength or quality of the carbon fibre structure. And this step-change in technology could make its way into more mainstream cars," he concluded.

Getting the production process right is the result of five years of extensive research. Now that the process is perfected, it allows McLaren to produce the MonoCell repeatedly at very high quality.

"Not many people in the automobile world work to standards demanded by the aerospace industry," claimed Mark Vinnels, McLaren Automotive Programme Director.

"Our ability to analyse and predict the performance of carbon fibre is in line with aerospace technology and is truly world class, particularly in the sense of predicting failure, which is obviously key in managing crash events and passive safety.

"We can now predict failure levels at individual ply level in the carbon composite and the results are absolutely correlating with what we predicted," he concluded.

The finished MonoCell emerges in one piece and this new process could revolutionise car design. It avoids the need to bond different parts to make the whole structure, as with all other carbon fibre cars. It is hollow, saving further weight, and the integrity of production ensures the location of suspension and ancillaries is accurate to the finest of tolerances.

[HiredMan]

Part 4

Powertrain: pure McLaren

The McLaren MP4-12C is powered by a twin-turbocharged, 3.8 litre 90_ V8 engine – the 'M838T'. This marks the start of a new era in 'core' segment sports cars – smaller capacity, lighter weight, higher efficiency and more economical power units. The engine has the highest specific power output in its segment which, when allied to its low weight carbon composite chassis, delivers exemplary power- and torque-to-weight ratios.

'M838T' is a unique McLaren power unit, developed specifically for the 12C. It is compact, lightweight, very stiff, and offers an uncompromising combination of very high performance and good driveability, with excellent economy and CO2 emission values.

Taking power and emissions in combination (measured by its horsepower to CO2 ratio), the 12C delivers its power at greater efficiency than any other car on the market with an internal combustion engine, including hybrids.

'M838T' features dual variable valve timing and produces around 600bhp and 600Nm of torque. A dry sump and flat plane crankshaft allow the engine to be placed extremely low in the chassis thereby lowering the centre of gravity and improving handling responses. It also features composite cam covers and intake manifolds, which reduce weight and heat transmission into the charge air, as well as Nikasil-coated aluminium liners for further weight reduction.

The McLaren engine revs to 8,500rpm, has quick transient throttle response and delivers its abundant torque throughout the rev range. A staggering 80 per cent of torque is available at below 2,000rpm, ensuring great driveability and no need to floor the throttle to deliver performance.

And it delivers a great soundtrack to highlight the engine's performance, flexibility and driveability. The sound of the engine has been thoroughly engineered through exhaust manifold design and tuning of the exhaust and intake systems to deliver a unique engine note.

The high level exhaust pipes exit through a mixing box, rather than a conventional and heavy silencer box. All parts of the exhaust system up to the mixing box feature sandwich layer heat-shielding that helps reduce heat from the engine bay. In just an 18mm gap, exhaust gas temperatures reduce from 900OC to 300OC.

The engine drives the rear wheels through two wet clutches and a McLaren-developed seven speed Seamless Shift dual clutch gearbox (SSG).

The Seamless Shift technology offers variable programmes ranging from 'normal' for road use and 'sport' for quicker changes still, right up to a lightning quick high performance mode. In addition an 'automatic' mode, 'launch control' and 'winter' modes can be selected, the latter changing all electronic functions to suit low friction conditions and delivering maximum driver aid and support. There is no traditional manual transmission offered; the two pedal layout offered further scope to create a narrow, and therefore light, car.

The 12C's SSG is a development on the automated and sequential manual gearboxes with paddle shifts that proliferate in the car market today. The character of the transmission will engage even experienced drivers with its responsiveness and its contribution to the whole dynamic package.

With minimal torque loss, there is none of the lurch, hesitation or unpredictability that characterise traditional automated-manual transmission systems.

Design of the SSG system was driven by a demanding mechanical package that not only reduced weight and improved dynamic control for the entire vehicle, but also delivered driver benefits.

It is lightweight and compact in design and positioned in exactly the best location. The input shaft lies very close to the output shaft to help position the entire powertrain low in the vehicle. Twin secondary shafts ensure any rear axle weight overhang is minimised and rear crash performance is uncompromised. The bespoke SSG is further complemented by an entirely new control system.

This obsessive attention to detail comes as second nature to McLaren, but is not just there to satisfy the engineers' passions. McLaren's designers have also engineered the system to work seamlessly with the driver.

The system reduces weight and benefits packaging targets, but also ensures that driving programmes and shift strategies take the driver's own inputs and uses them to directly control the engine's torque and speed to deliver performance, economy or comfort as requested.

Gears are changed using a Formula 1 style rocker shift that pivots in the centre of the steering wheel. It is actuated on either side of the steering wheel (pulling right changes up, pulling left down).

As with the McLaren Formula 1 car, a shift can be actuated either by pulling or by pushing on the rocker. The rocker moves with the steering wheel, rather than being mounted on the steering column, so that if a gearchange is needed while lock is being applied the driver does not have to fumble around to change gear.

The rocker itself incorporates an innovative feature created by McLaren engineers called Pre-Cog. The name stands for pre-cognition, literally 'foreknowledge'. The rocker on the 12C has two positions with a slightly different haptic (or feel) for each. The driver applies first pressure to the rocker and it informs the gearbox to get ready to swap ratios, thereby saving time – latency – between the message being sent and the gearbox being primed to act. The second pressure confirms that the gear should be changed and the torque handover is completed in milliseconds.

"What Pre-Cog actually does is initiate the shift process by priming the clutch and torque handover – it takes significant time out of the process," explained Dick Glover, Technical Director McLaren Automotive.

"It's a little bit like the first pressure on a camera shutter button. There's no requirement for the driver to use it but it is more satisfying and engaging if you do. The SSG also promotes seamless shifting in which the driver doesn't have to reduce engine power at all – rather than the gearshift slowing you down, it actually speeds the car up by recovering the energy of the crank spinning as it drops engine speed," he said.

In practice the latency of the shift is virtually zero, the actual gear change time is very fast and the level of impulse can be varied according to the gearbox mode. Considering that McLaren was the first Formula 1 team to introduce seamless shift gearchanges into motor racing, it was a natural step to develop such a bespoke transmission to its sports car project.

[HiredMan]

Part 5

Chassis: Proactive control

The suspension for the McLaren MP4-12C breaks new ground, offering hitherto unseen levels of roll control and grip (an almost flat cornering attitude, depending on the programme selected).

Although such track-like responses would normally imply a rock-hard ride, the 12C delivers compliance and ride comfort more akin to an executive saloon car. The mix of occupant cosseting and sporting potential is truly unique. The 12C offers the driver both class-leading ride comfort and class-leading performance.

The whole chassis package produces not only a unique relationship between ride and handling, but also astonishing lateral grip and outstanding traction. The 12C is poised and balanced whether negotiating high or low speed corners, during direction changes, under heavy or light braking and on tightening or opening corners.

The trick behind blending such opposing objectives lies in the innovative Proactive Chassis Control system, uncompromised geometry, and weight distribution.

The suspension is based on double wishbones with coil springs. The dampers are interconnected hydraulically and provide adaptive responses depending on both road conditions and driver preference.

The Proactive system features adjustable roll control which replaces the mechanical anti-roll bars that have been a standard feature of road cars since time immemorial. It allows the car to maintain precise roll control under heavy cornering while decoupling the suspension in a straight line for excellent wheel articulation and compliance.

There are three suspension modes that are selected on the Active Dynamics Panel. As with the powertrain adjustment, there is a 'normal', a 'sport' mode and a high performance mode which adjusts numerous parameters in the system.

Not only is the Proactive suspension a unique application that delivers absolute benefits to driver and passenger, but it is also another example of McLaren's drive to achieve all-round performance goals from core engineering targets.

For example, the unique blend of a compliant ride with ultra-sharp handling also delivers ownership benefits as it protects suspension bushes from wear and tear, with McLaren's research suggesting a potential for up to ten times more mileage than on some competitor cars. Also, the hydraulic pump that supports the dampers is the same pump that supports the electro-hydraulic steering system. Why use two pumps when one - small and lightweight - pump will do?

The powertrain packaging also contributes to the 12C's handling prowess.

The engine is mounted low down in order to lower the centre of gravity while the radiators are rear-mounted and reduce weight by saving on long piping to and from the engine (and the fluids they would hold). The value of rear-mounted radiators is key to the 12C's handling and balance. The more weight that can be concentrated within the wheelbase and towards the centre of gravity, the lower the polar moment of inertia, thereby improving corner turn in.

Another feature that helps the 12C to handle at a new level is a development of an electronic system used by McLaren's 1997 MP4/12 Formula 1 car, – Brake Steer. In essence, it is a system that brakes the inside rear wheel when the car is entering a corner too quickly to make the desired radius. Under normal circumstances the front would wash away wide of the apex the driver wants to touch: in other words, the car is in a state of understeer.

Brake Steer manages the tendency of a car to wash out and brings its nose back on line. It assesses the steering angle to determine the driver's intended course and applies the inside rear brake to increase yaw rate and resume the desired course.

The system also works on acceleration out of a corner when the inside rear has a tendency to spin, allowing the driver to put power down more quickly. It controls what a limited slip differential would do and obviates the need for such a complex and heavy unit, thus saving more valuable kilos.

The standard brakes for the 12C reduce overall vehicle and unsprung mass. McLaren has developed a composite braking system that uses a forged aluminium bell that attaches to the cast iron disc. This solution maintained the excellent brake feel of a cast iron disc while saving 8 kg. Carbon ceramic brakes will be available as an option, offering fade-free braking performance during high performance driving, but the standard composite brake system is actually lighter than the larger carbon ceramic units.

The design of the standard cast alloy wheels (19" front, 20" rear) was driven by McLaren's light weight objectives: the light weight styling was agreed in concept, then the wheel was tuned using Finite Element Analysis to take a further 4 kg out of the wheels. Bespoke Pirelli tyres have been developed in conjunction with McLaren specifically for the 12C.

An array of electronic aids is fitted to the 12C that will assist and protect the less-experienced driver, or when conditions challenge even the best. These include ABS, ESP, ASR traction control, Electronic Brake Distribution, Hill Hold and Brake Steer. The level of intervention varies according to the handling mode selected.


Design: everything for a reason

The McLaren MP4-12C has been designed around a demanding mechanical package that puts emphasis on aerodynamics, compact dimensions, performance and efficiency, practicality and comfort. Although the design of the 12C was driven by aerodynamics, it aims to remain contemporary and elegant throughout its lifetime as well as distinctive among its peers.

Frank Stephenson, McLaren Automotive Design Director, helped finalise the design: "Like most designers it's a boyhood dream to work with high performance sports cars. They are the purest expression of speed and purpose and, with increased consumer demand in this market and environmental aims to the fore, offer designers the ultimate challenge.

The 12C design was therefore led by aerodynamics. At McLaren we have been able to use the Formula 1 techniques and the huge expertise that the company has amassed at the pinnacle of the sport," explained Stephenson.

"All the fins, vents and the flat underbody are there for a reason. No styling addenda have been incorporated for appeal or style alone. This aerodynamic purity explains why this car can hit top speed with great stability without resorting to tea tray wings or deep front air dams. I really feel that the styling communicates the 12C's engineering integrity and technical benefits and it is this purity that makes the design timeless."

The overall design theme supports engineering aerodynamic ambitions. Purity of lines then give the car its character. Successful car design is based on proportions and McLaren's styling team, whilst driven by the demands of the purest airflow, honed a mix of concave and convex surfaces that present balanced proportions and a feeling of lightness. Nothing is out of place on the car and surfaces interact smoothly and with purpose; surfaces that are integrated into the whole of the car along two continuous lines that flow round the body.

The front is very low since it does not have to house large engine cooling radiators, two of which are mounted longitudinally at the sides. This offers the added benefit of segment-leading space for storage under the bonnet.

The 12C's face is dominated by large and distinctive air intakes and bi-xenon headlights with LED running lights inspired by the form of the McLaren logo. The McLaren logo itself also graces the bonnet of a car for the first time.

Illumination from the running lights bleeds into three distinctive gills just above the headlamps. The windscreen is deep and low for superb forward visibility and redolent of the McLaren F1: in wet weather it is swept by a single weight-saving pantograph wiper blade, as was the F1.

Stephenson again: "The 12C does not reproduce the F1 design but it unashamedly builds on its functionally-driven engineering and design highlights such as the large, deep windscreen and the low cowl to give the driver good visibility for accurate placement on the road. Any similarities are there for a reason."

From the side, the 12C cannot be mistaken for another sports car. The dominant side air inlets act as turning vanes and help direct cooling air over the side radiators. This shape was designed and optimised using McLaren's extensive computational fluid dynamics capability. Likewise, the scalloped shoulders drive airflow to the airbrake, thereby enhancing its effectiveness in the aerodynamic package.

The other prevailing design characteristics are the dihedral doors (a hereditary gene from the McLaren F1), which has a clear purpose, like every other element of McLaren's design ethos.

The concept of dihedral doors is simply to allow the driver and passenger to get into and out of the car as easily as possible as well as allowing a smaller door opening than would otherwise be necessary.

The simple act of moving the door forward and upwards invites the driver to step across the sill and sit in the car more easily. In tighter parking situations, dihedral doors allow ingress and egress in a situation where another car has parked too closely. In traditional door systems a huge parking space is necessary to permit the doors to open wide enough.

With its single hinge, the dihedral doors offer weight-saving features and are unique to the McLaren brand. As is the unique handle-free door entry system.

[HiredMan]

Part 6

The 12C's rear is unique. It has an aggressive, business-like appearance with its downforce-optimised rear diffuser. The exhaust pipes exit high and in the centre of the car and the rear end is open to ensure efficient evacuation of hot air from the engine bay. The engine itself is visible through the top deck. The LED tail light clusters do not dominate the rear and are hidden behind horizontal black bars. They are only visible when illuminated: the two upper bars light up as LED brake lights and turn indicators.

Aerodynamic efficiency drove the 12C's design. High downforce helps maintain traction, cornering ability and stability while low drag aids top speed and acceleration. It has a completely flat underbody and smooth upper body surfaces to yield a highly effective drag coefficient and generate very high levels of balanced downforce at high speed.

A nose splitter gives more downforce at the front while guide vanes near the front and rear wheels help to increase downforce with minimal drag penalty and direct air towards the all-important diffuser at the rear.

The active Airbrake is another innovation that made its debut on the F1 supercar and was also incorporated into the SLR. It deploys hydraulically under braking, or when the driver wants to trim the car for increased downforce by using a switch on the Active Dynamics Panel.

Under braking, a piston operated by transmission hydraulics raises the Airbrake to a certain angle. Once a small amount of wing angle is pushed into the airflow, the centre of aerodynamic pressure forces the bottom of the 'wing' back. In this way, it raises the airbrake to maximum angle using the 'free' airflow rather than relying on another mechanical device.

The Airbrake moves the centre of pressure of the 12C rearwards, whereas it would normally move forward under braking. It improves yaw stability under braking and allows the brakes to work more effectively due to increased downforce. It is also a weight-saving solution that took almost 50 per cent of weight out of the mechanism.

Overall, the 12C is lower, shorter and narrower than key competitors, but has much shorter front and rear overhangs due to its longer wheelbase – a layout that promotes stability and assists handling response.


Inside: it all starts with the driver

Packaging was fundamental to the McLaren MP4-12C design challenge. Externally, the car had to be compact, yet internally it had to offer an unparalleled driver and passenger environment where comfort and driving enjoyment at all levels were not compromised.

"With the interior, we have created a real step forward in the packaging of a sports car. Moving the driver and passenger closer together improves driving control and moving the pedals improves the problem of wheel well intrusion. We also repackaged many of the major components that normally sit under the dashboard to allow for more space and a unique form. Packaging is one of the 12C's really strong points," said Frank Stephenson.

But the creativity of the interior design itself aimed to set new standards. The whole focus is on making the 12C cockpit a uniquely comfortable and functional space. The design offers a symmetry that wraps around the occupants and makes them feel not only physically, but also emotionally comfortable.

The interior is extremely space efficient and is designed to accommodate ?thpercentile adults in comfort. This has been partly achieved by the 7 inch touch screen telematics system oriented in 'portrait' mode. This is a first for the automotive industry and is more intuitive than 'landscape' orientation – we read down a page and our mobile telephones and other personal information devices are configured this way.

This is one of the many reasons the 12C design is able to buck the trend towards ever wider sporting cars. The innovative information centre provides all normal telematics functions such as audio, navigation and telephony, while providing some new features never before seen in a car. Meridian, the renowned producer of state-of-the-art sound systems, is developing its first ever in-car system for the 12C.

McLaren designers paid great attention to all-round visibility for both safety and driving precision.

The low cowl gives a full six degrees downward vision from eye height and, importantly, allows the driver a clear view of the front of the car. The view of the top of the front wings, with the highest point positioned directly above the centre of the wheel, also facilitates perfect placement of the 12C in a corner. Rear vision is excellent too and an internal buttress with a rear three-quarter glass provides a clear rearward view.

The steering wheel is probably the most important sensory item for any driver. Apart from the feel and feedback from the front wheels, the actual grip and design of the wheel itself is paramount. The steering wheel is 'clean' – there are no buttons to distract the driver. It also needs to be small and very tactile.

McLaren designers and engineers found the solution to the steering wheel design challenge under their own roof. Having employed an advanced and compact airbag, the steering wheel design was then inspired by McLaren's racing expertise.

The steering wheel grip of the 12C is as technically precise as a McLaren racing driver's wheel.

This is because past Formula 1 championship-winning drivers' grips were modelled and scanned and the most effective feel and thickness of their wheels was replicated for a high performance road car.

Such attention to detail is to be found throughout the McLaren 12C's interior and the car does not suffer an over abundance of switches, knobs and dials.

The layout and ergonomics of the interior are aided by the 12C's packaging. The driver and passenger sit closer together, giving the driver a better feeling of control for placing the car on the road accurately as well as leaving more room between the driver and the door panel. This allows not only more space for arm movements during hard driving, but also provides space for an additional 'door console'.

[HiredMan]

Part 7 (stupid 10,000 character per post limit!)

Like the McLaren F1, the driver has controls on both sides, which allows for a rational positioning of switches:


• Climate controls on each door console


• Telematics on the upper centre console

• Active Dynamics Panel on the middle centre console

• Transmission and minor controls on the tunnel console

• Trip computer and cruise controls on steering column
As such, all groups of controls have their own place and are accessible within a hand's distance from the steering wheel. The instrument cluster has a large central tachometer and digital speed readout. Behind the steering wheel (and moving with it) is a Formula 1-inspired rocker for changing gears. It has been engineered to deliver a Formula 1 haptic. The science of haptics has been applied to all the controls in order to generate a consistent and high quality feel. All the controls are bespoke, designed exclusively by McLaren, and not a single one has come from the parts bin of another manufacturer.

The Active Dynamics Panel provides two rotary switches and four push buttons:


• 'Start/Stop'


• 'Active' activates all the dynamic controls.

• 'Winter' sets powertrain, suspension and electronic aids to maximum driver support.

• 'Launch' initiates the launch control system.
The two rotary switches control 'powertrain' and 'handling', each having three position settings for normal, sport and high performance driving modes.

• 'Powertrain' changes throttle response, gearbox strategy, shift times and impulse (how much one can feel the gearchange). The coaxial 'Manual' button controls use of manual gearbox functions.

• 'Handling' changes stability control, steering weight, suspension firmness and roll stiffness. The coaxial 'Aero' button allows the driver to deploy the airbrake for increased downforce.
The supportive, light weight seat is comfortable and electrically-adjustable for height. There is plenty of stowage space in the car with a shelf behind the seats big enough for small bags and a 'floating' centre console that leaves space beneath for a large storage container.

The interior's simplicity belies a world-class level of comfort and safety features that will include a full quota of airbags, fully automatic dual zone climate control, sophisticated telematics and audio systems, parking sensors, trip computer, cruise control and electric memory seats.


Testing and simulation

McLaren has developed one of the most sophisticated driving simulators in the world. It is an immensely powerful tool that can be used to predict handling, performance, and a multitude of other dynamic properties.

The simulator was initially designed to improve the performance of the Formula 1 cars. But it has also been used intensively in the design and development process for the 12C, where modelling offers the opportunity to test likely outcomes without having to build a component that might turn out to be inadequate. It saves both money and time and it is perhaps the most effective technology transfer from Formula 1 to road cars; the handling and suspension of the McLaren MP4-12C was developed using exactly the same tools and techniques as the McLaren Formula 1 cars.

The crash test requirements are a good example of how simulation helps speed up development. Long before the first Carbon MonoCell had been constructed, the design had been through hundreds of passive crash test simulations. When the time came to submit a real world crash test, the 12C passed with flying colours.

"Outside of McLaren, it is almost unknown to meet our standards out of the box," said Dick Glover, "but simulation worked out perfectly for us. It is difficult enough to achieve first time success like this with just a relatively predictable, ductile aluminium structure yet McLaren managed first time out with its MonoCell and added aluminium structures. We are very proud of that."

Simulation didn't stop at the design stage. Although over 20 prototypes have been built for an exhaustive test programme around the globe, the simulator remains a key tool and a differentiator from most competitors.
Different engineering teams have cars undergoing specialized testing including hot weather in Bahrain in the height of the 2009 summer, cold weather testing in the Arctic, engine development, gearbox calibration, electrical testing and ride, handling and durability programmes.

Before the first prototype was available, the dynamic test team, aided by professional racing driver and McLaren test driver Chris Goodwin, tested early parts on the simulator as well as a development chassis and various engine mules. When dynamic testing started, development and constant refinement of engine, gearbox, tyres, aerodynamics, braking, steering and suspension began in earnest to match all projected values and targets.

The testing programme moved into a more 'aggressive' phase following the principles of Formula 1 testing where a car and dozens of people maximise track time during the day and work on improvements overnight. The principle is 'why test one thing when you can do ten'. Prototypes went to a test track for six weeks with all the experts and suppliers. The car followed a rigorous regime of testing almost 24 hours a day, seven days a week for six weeks. This turbocharged programme accelerated the development time.


Production

The production process for the McLaren MP4-12C will enable McLaren to build on its recent success of record production volumes and quality for a luxury supercar with the SLR.

The McLaren Production System brings a large scale lean production mentality into a small-scale, flexible operation. The process is championed by Production Director, Alan Foster's experiences at Japanese and European car manufacturers.

"Quality is the most important thing to customers," said Foster, "and quality management is a fundamental part of building a McLaren. For my team it is an absolute passion. It doesn't matter whether a customer is spending ten thousand pounds or a million, it is their money and they rightly expect to have pride in their purchase and be satisfied with it. Our goal is to ensure that we exceed customers' expectations," he concluded.

12C volumes will remain low, but will require a change of mindset for McLaren's production line teams as the company moves to higher volumes. But the build process will still focus on craftsmanship, a hand-built philosophy but with a lot of science behind it. Quality gates will ensure that a car cannot leave a work station until everything is completed perfectly.

McLaren will maintain its high standards of final approval before a car can be released.

The build of prototypes has already proven the robustness of this approach because investment in the manufacturing assembly fixtures that will actually be used in production has already prepared the team and shown the build process to be on track. The 12C station cycle times have already been reduced by almost a further 20 per cent through knowledge gained from building the prototypes. In short, the risk has been removed from the production process so that final production quality will be guaranteed.

[HiredMan]

Part 8 (final!)

Aftersales, retail distribution, personalisation

Not only is McLaren establishing a new company, a new production plant, an all-new high performance sports car engineered and developed in house... it is also building a global network of retail distribution partners.
This small number of super operators will deliver the dedication and purposefulness necessary to ensure an ownership experience for the 12C that is as good as the car itself.

Ease of repairability, low-cost of servicing and maintenance, and availability of parts are of paramount importance to this customer relationship and have been key targets since the beginning of the 12C project. McLaren aims to offer segment leading performance here too. The principle being that a high performance sports car should not just be a pleasure to drive, but also to own; a car that is efficient to run and own retains its residual value and ensures its owner becomes a repeat purchaser.

Early planning indicates that 25 per cent of sales will be made in the UK, 25 per cent in the USA and the remainder to the rest of the world, notably Germany and mainland Europe, the Middle East and some Far Eastern countries. Although the McLaren MP4-12C has a comprehensive standard specification, customers for such an exclusive car want to have the ability to specify bespoke items, interiors and special equipment for their own car. McLaren has extensive experience of meeting these needs for McLaren F1 and SLR customers.

For example, the 12C will be available in a broad range of exterior paint colours and interior colours and configurations, while carbon fibre components and lightweight forged wheels will reduce weight yet further.


In summary

Motor racing began the McLaren story, but the latest chapter sees the company take that inspiration and develop it further on the road – and track.

McLaren has a heritage that spans 45 years during which time it has won 163 Grands Prix, 12 F1 World Championship Driver's titles and eight Constructor's titles.

McLaren achieved the most dominant season ever in F1 (15 wins out of 16 races in 1988) just as it dominated the Can-Am championship winning five titles in the late 1960s and early 1970s. McLaren has also won three Indianapolis 500 races and the prestigious Le Mans 24 Hours at its first attempt in 1995.

McLaren remains the only manufacturer to win the F1 World Championship, the Indianapolis 500 and Le Mans – the 'triple crown' of the motor sport world.

On top of McLaren's racing record it can lay claim to a road car heritage spanning 20 years, having produced the fastest production road car in history, the McLaren F1. Success does indeed breed success and McLaren intends to continue in this vein.

"McLaren Automotive is well on the way to offering not only an extraordinary new sports car but also to building an innovative new company," explained Antony Sheriff, McLaren Automotive Managing Director.

"It is an exciting time for all of us at McLaren. We have built a new company, we are constructing a new global dealer network and a purpose-built production plant and, of course we are launching the first pure McLaren car for more than a decade. The best way I can describe the McLaren MP4-12C is to say it is not a 'but' car, it is an 'and' car:

• It offers class-leading performance and class-leading economy and CO2 emissions


• It has small dimensions and great packaging

• It is well-equipped with high safety standards and is lightweight

• It has dramatic dynamic potential and the ride quality of an executive saloon car

"When we embarked on the 12C project, we set ourselves ambitious targets. After all, building a car that matches the performance of competitors is not good enough for us. With a McLaren badge on the front, it needs to be the best."

"So we developed everything from scratch because it was the only way we could ensure we met our ambitious goals and did not compromise the car – a new chassis concept, new engine, new gearbox, new suspension system, new telematics system; everything is new. As exciting as it has been for us, we hope the 12C will prove even more exciting for our customers," Sheriff concluded.

"I am really proud of what the whole McLaren Automotive team has achieved with the 12C," said Ron Dennis, McLaren Automotive Chairman.

"We respect and admire our competitors in the high performance sports car market, just as we do in the world of Formula 1, but I also believe that fierce competition drives technology and innovation and produces ever better products.

"With the McLaren MP4-12C we are determined to deliver the best car in its sector by almost any measure. It is our philosophy to push what is possible in car design and engineering and bring innovation and engineering excellence to the performance car world. We have an incredibly dedicated team at McLaren who continue to drive this company to ever greater achievements, and the 12C represents the passion within, as the first of this new range of performance cars from McLaren," he concluded.


Looks good!

[Shorty]

So I take it you're pretty interested in this new car? :p

[HiredMan]

Reasonably interested. It'd probably have to be a Porsche for me to be more interested :p

[TrinityJayOne]

I bet Turn 10 are aching to get their mitts on one of these!

[Clockw0rk]

Looks nicer than the Mercedes Gullwing.
Laguna Seca is available to drive around in Google Maps Streetview, if anyone is interested in such things.

[Blue]

What a bunch of shit.

Seriously, that press release is just garbage. The reasoning for the name makes no sense at all. Anyway, it's an exciting prospect otherwise, to see how it compares to the F1, and the Veyron. The eight-reduction is always really interesting.

It's ****ing ugly, though. The F1 looks miles better.

[HiredMan]

What a bunch of shit.

Seriously, that press release is just garbage. The reasoning for the name makes no sense at all. Anyway, it's an exciting prospect otherwise, to see how it compares to the F1, and the Veyron. The eight-reduction is always really interesting.

It's ****ing ugly, though. The F1 looks miles better.

Haha, yeah. Press release was 20 pages or some shit, mostly wank.

The car won't compete with the F1 and Veyron, McLaren are working on another car for that class. This is an entry level supercar, it's direct competitors will be the Ferrari 458 Italia and the Lamborghini Gallardo LP560-4 and LP550-2 Balboni.

And yeah, the car isn't stunning to look at although I am warming to it. I like the proportions a lot but the detail leaves me a bit cold, especially around the front. Of course the F1 looks miles better: the F1 looks miles better than just about everything.

[TrinityJayOne]

Surely you guys can see the likeness to the F1 though, especially in that first shot. The arse is shorter and it's not as low, but apart from that they're remarkably similar. The front profile is very Ferrari F430 with those big wheel arches. Personally I quite like it, but that could be the color.

[Clockw0rk]

I'm not really excited by it at all - it's just another supercar. Sure, it has some neat tech and decent styling but there's nothing that sets it miles apart from any of the other supercars on the market.

[HiredMan]

Yeah, I do like the proportions, I just think that the front and rear ends are a bit bland.

[enrique]

It just doesnt stand out like the F1 did, its too generic in my eyes, it looks nice though but it does look as special as I hoped it would. McLaren are aiming to go sportscar racing with this car. Le Mans beckons!!

[HiredMan]

It just doesnt stand out like the F1 did, its too generic in my eyes, it looks nice though but it does look as special as I hoped it would.

My thoughts exactly. I'd wager it'll make its mark with performance, though.

[enrique]

My thoughts exactly. I'd wager it'll make its mark with performance, though.

Yeah, that engine sounds interesting and with Ron Dennis at the helm he wont accept anything less then perfection so it should drive well. Glad its a McLaren product without any input from mercedes, its a more purer result then the SLR.

[TrinityJayOne]

It just doesnt stand out like the F1 did, its too generic in my eyes
That's because it's not new anymore. Supercars that do 320km/h are a dime a dozen nowadays, it takes something like the Veyron to really stand out.

[Clockw0rk]

In supercar-related news:

YlWqNzV-1Sk

Ferrari 458 Italia
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/9681/20090915ferrari458itali.jpg
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/9681/20090915ferrari458itali.jpg
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/9681/20090915ferrari458itali.jpg
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/7931/20090915ferrari458italig.jpg


Mercedes SLS Uglycrap
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/2374/20090915mercedesslsamg0.jpg
http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/2374/20090915mercedesslsamg0.jpg


In flat car related news, Alan's Altezza went to the panelbeaters to get a cut+polish, some kit work, and the guards flared so he could fit 255s underneath. It came back with poorly done touch-up paint, paint splatters in odd places, badly aligned guards and the front wheels rubbed on the guards every time he cornered. Oh and it cost $600 more than the original quote for the privilege. Naturally he called up the panelbeaters and went ballistic, it's going back in next week to get everything re-done free of charge. Aside from that he's replaced the chrome tail-lights, so instead of the standard Altezza chrome finish or the TRD masks, it's got a white paint job underneath with the clear covers on top.

The Celica is going in next week and hopefully the mechanic will have better luck wiring up the IC sprayers. The power steering works now though, which is a bit of a change from the past 6 months. I was out taking photos of my friend's horses the other day and snapped a couple of pics of mine+hers cars as they were sitting in the driveway. Ignore the quality, the camera was set up all wrong. I'll do better next weekend, promise.

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/6525/celica1p.jpg
http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/4220/celica2d.jpg
http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/2596/celicamx1.jpg
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/9528/celicamx2.jpg

[Clockw0rk]

So, the Celica has been stolen in case you didn't know already. I'm waiting on the police report to arrive in the mail so I can file an insurance claim. It's a market value policy, and I need to convince the insurance company that the car is worth more than the $7500 purchase price I originally insured it for. To this end I've got invoices for all the work done to it and the mechanic has said it'd be worth $10-11k or more given that it's pretty much irreplaceable.

I'm trying to find some for sale but so far I haven't had any luck. If anyone happens to find a good example of an ST205 WRC GT-Four on Ebay or in their area, links etc would be much appreciated.

[REQUIEM]

http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/private/details.aspx?R=7461818&keywords=ST205%20WRC%20GT&tsrc=allcarhome&__Ntk=CarAll&__Nne=15&__Dx=mode%20matchany&__D=ST205%20WRC%20GT&silo=1011&seot=1&__sid=123EC263CAE8&__N=1216%201246%201247%201252%201282&__Ns=pCar_RankSort_Int32%7c1%7c%7cpCar_PriceSort_D ecimal%7c1%7c%7cpCar_Make_String%7c0%7c%7cpCar_Mod el_String%7c0&__Qpb=true&__Ntx=mode%20matchallpartial&Cr=2&__Ntt=ST205%20WRC%20GT&trecs=5

Wont help with your purchase but might help with the insurance company trying to stiff you.

[Clockw0rk]

That's exactly what I'm after, thanks. If you find any more let me know :)

[Shorty]

RM's to auction two rare Mercedes-Benz CLK GTRs (http://www.autoblog.com/2009/09/23/pair-of-mercedes-benz-clk-gtr-road-cars-to-be-auctioned-by-rm-in/).

[enrique]

RM's to auction two rare Mercedes-Benz CLK GTRs (http://www.autoblog.com/2009/09/23/pair-of-mercedes-benz-clk-gtr-road-cars-to-be-auctioned-by-rm-in/).

Very nice and incredibly rare. The roadster looks like the one from the Sultan of Brunei's collection, could be one and the same.

[Lazlow]

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/5681/websuperturismogts1jpg.jpg

Anyone know of any 4 nut wheels that look similar to the Oz Racing Superturismo GT above.

[TrinityJayOne]

Everyone remember that really old (http://members.iinet.net.au/~trinityjayone/FULLClassicPorsche1.jpg) pre-911 Porsche (http://members.iinet.net.au/~trinityjayone/FULLClassicPorsche2.jpg) I posted pics of a while back? Well the journey down the backstraight of memory lane continues today with some Aussie muscle! (thankfully in better condition than that Porsche) Behold, the Chrysler Valiant Charger! ('scuse the size, still haven't gotten around to installing PS on this PC >_>)

http://members.iinet.net.au/~trinityjayone/FULLCharger1.jpg

http://members.iinet.net.au/~trinityjayone/FULLCharger2.jpg

I didn't see it running so no idea if that sticker on the rear window is just for looks or if he's had work done. The rims are stock so I'm guessing no, but who knows, maybe the owner is insane. :P

[Clockw0rk]

That thing is pretty sexy, Trin.
Right now I'm kinda obsessed with this Civic (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/Honda/Civic/auction-243600321.htm), I know I was gonna go for something RWD and turbo but I can't help but love the riceyness of it all. Those type Rs go pretty nuts too.

[enrique]

Love those chargers, there's a mint orange example near me but I havent seen it for while.

[Quatters]

LS1 in Prius.

Please tell me someone's done it. My searches have yielded nothing.

[Shorty]

Nobody's done any Prius engine swaps, AFAIK. To be honest, there are a million better candidates for tuning than a car designed primarily around fuel economy.

[Quatters]

Nobody's done any Prius engine swaps, AFAIK. To be honest, there are a million better candidates for tuning than a car designed primarily around fuel economy.


That's the reason why.
Imagine how much all the hippies would rage when you destroy your tyres in a blaze of V8 glory.

I've actually done some research into it, it wouldn't fit in the front, so you'd need to go MR, dump the rear seats/boot. Put in a new mid-car firewall.
With all the custom fabrication needed, overall I'm imagining it would be at least a 6 figure job.

If I want to blow alot of cash, this is a future dream.

[Shorty]

An expensive middle finger to hippies? It's very you. :p

[Clockw0rk]

The Prius is pretty aerodynamic, a mid-engine LS1 would make it very interesting. It'd also need a wide body kit, just because :p

Still don't know when insurance is going to pay out for the Celica, or how much, but I've been checking out cars anyway. A few that I've considered include:

1996 Civic Type R (EK9)
Nissan Leopard (similar to Cedric/Gloria, V6 Turbo)
Various S14 Silvia Ks
Various Spec S (non turbo) S15s
Evo V
Mazda RX-7 (FC/FD)
Mazda Cosmo 13B TT
Toyota Altezza RS200
And a 1994 Civic EG6 with a worked 2.2L Euro R engine

I found an S2000 in my price range last night - $14,000 for a 1999 model putting out 197kw at the wheels, a full homologated roll bar and fixed back bucket seats with racing harnesses - a proper Club Car. It needs a new soft top but for that price it'd be hard to pass up 9000rpm of VTEC power.

Oh the other noteworthy car I saw was a $4500 Fiat Uno Turbo, which the owner claims will pull harder than an Evo 7 when it's on boost. I'd at least have to test drive it.

[Quatters]

The Prius is pretty aerodynamic, a mid-engine LS1 would make it very interesting. It'd also need a wide body kit, just because :p


It would need to be wider for air intakes for the engine!
Also would probably need a front mount radiator.

1996 Civic Type R (EK9)
Don't like FWD, not for me
Nissan Leopard (similar to Cedric/Gloria, V6 Turbo)
GOD YES! The fact that there's about 5 in Aus earns it a huge thumbs up from me. It's more like a Nissan Soarer if you really want to start comparing
Various S14 Silvia Ks
Thumbs up
Various Spec S (non turbo) S15s
Why no turbo?
Evo V
They are quick, but I don't know, something about EVOs has never floated my boat
Mazda RX-7 (FC/FD)
FC hell yes!
Mazda Cosmo 13B TT
I'm assuming you get free fuel :coolface: If that's not a problem, then several thumbs up
Toyota Altezza RS200
Probably would be lower down on my list than the others
And a 1994 Civic EG6 with a worked 2.2L Euro R engine
Despite being FWD the engine makes it interesting.

I found an S2000 in my price range last night - $14,000 for a 1999 model putting out 197kw at the wheels, a full homologated roll bar and fixed back bucket seats with racing harnesses - a proper Club Car. It needs a new soft top but for that price it'd be hard to pass up 9000rpm of VTEC power.
At the same time, you have to wonder WHY it's so cheap. It'll either be an awesome deal from someone who needs cash fast, or a money pit

Oh the other noteworthy car I saw was a $4500 Fiat Uno Turbo, which the owner claims will pull harder than an Evo 7 when it's on boost. I'd at least have to test drive it. I'd doubt his claims, they'd need so much work for that. But then again, I've seen V8 Cappuccinos.


How much are JZX100 Chasers over there? Should consider one of them too!

[Lazlow]

Nissan Soarer

you mean Toyota/Lexus Soarer? >_>

Had to laugh today as I passed a R34 on the side of the road for sale, $10,500 MUST SELL!, and it looked like the licence plate had been stuck to the intercooler.

[enrique]

LS1 in Prius.

Please tell me someone's done it. My searches have yielded nothing.

Not quite a Prius but this:

LS7 powered daewoo?

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/18601/not-your-average-grocery-getter-404kw-v8-chevy-matiz/

Its ugly as sin with that bodykit on it, I'd have one if it looked stock though.

[Quatters]

Not quite a Prius but this:

LS7 powered daewoo?

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/18601/not-your-average-grocery-getter-404kw-v8-chevy-matiz/

Its ugly as sin with that bodykit on it, I'd have one if it looked stock though.

Brilliant!
But yeah, I'd try and keep it more stock looking.

you mean Toyota/Lexus Soarer? >_>

Had to laugh today as I passed a R34 on the side of the road for sale, $10,500 MUST SELL!, and it looked like the licence plate had been stuck to the intercooler.

I meant Nissan's version of the Soarer!

[Lazlow]

oic, just read that wrong

[Quatters]

BTW

The Aston Martin Lagonda has pens in the car!
FREAKING PENS!!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/quatters/Cars/1254697746969.jpg

I now want to have pens in my car. I've got a black Mont Blanc which suits my interior.




Also, in automotive hilarity.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/quatters/Cars/Image0050.jpg





Yes, my cousin owns 2 VLs.
Icing on the cake is that one is pink.

[Clockw0rk]

1996 Civic Type R (EK9)
Don't like FWD, not for me
To each his own, I guess. I don’t like boring FWD family cars, but an 8500rpm redline and 130kw at the front wheels can’t be put in the same basket.

Nissan Leopard (similar to Cedric/Gloria, V6 Turbo)
GOD YES! The fact that there's about 5 in Aus earns it a huge thumbs up from me. It's more like a Nissan Soarer if you really want to start comparing
I love the look of the one that’s on sale right now, but it’s 4 door – the Soarer is 2 door. I’ve also looked at Soarers but they’re all Autos. I’d need to price up manual conversions for the JZ models before I considered one.

Various S14 Silvia Ks
Thumbs up

Various Spec S (non turbo) S15s
Why no turbo?
Turbo models are out of my price range

Evo V
They are quick, but I don't know, something about EVOs has never floated my boat
The Evo V is where I start liking them. The only old model Evo I like is the 3, the 4 is boring but the 5/6 are awesome. 5 is the only one in my price bracket.

Mazda RX-7 (FC/FD)
FC hell yes!
Why not FD?

Mazda Cosmo 13B TT
I'm assuming you get free fuel :cool: If that's not a problem, then several thumbs up
The awesome factor is too high to pass up. Have you seen their rear seats?

Toyota Altezza RS200
Probably would be lower down on my list than the others
A common Aussie mistake. Your Altezzas != our Altezzas. The 4cyl RS200 is an awesome machine, M3 performance at a fraction of the price.

And a 1994 Civic EG6 with a worked 2.2L Euro R engine
Despite being FWD the engine makes it interesting.
Torque Steeeeeer! I’ve got to test drive this thing.

I found an S2000 in my price range last night - $14,000 for a 1999 model putting out 197kw at the wheels, a full homologated roll bar and fixed back bucket seats with racing harnesses - a proper Club Car. It needs a new soft top but for that price it'd be hard to pass up 9000rpm of VTEC power.
At the same time, you have to wonder WHY it's so cheap. It'll either be an awesome deal from someone who needs cash fast, or a money pit
Like I said, the cloth top needs replacing. No idea what one costs but I’d say it wouldn’t be cheap. On top of that, a lot of the interior is in average condition and the roll bar needs work to be certed for track use, which I’d imagine would set someone back a bit. Also it only comes with the fixed back seats, so unless you fit them they won’t be comfortable, and they’re difficult to sell on. I think he just wants to get rid of it. Also it’s 14k no reserve but there’s no buy now and he’s not taking offers, I think he’s expecting the price to jump up a bit.

Oh the other noteworthy car I saw was a $4500 Fiat Uno Turbo, which the owner claims will pull harder than an Evo 7 when it's on boost. I'd at least have to test drive it.
I'd doubt his claims, they'd need so much work for that. But then again, I've seen V8 Cappuccinos.
We’ll just have to wait and see. The price is appealing, for sure.

As for JZX100 Chasers, they’re all either out of my price range, Automatic (2JZ manual conversions cost an arm and a leg), or stripped out and thrashed drift hacks.

[Ezri]

Speaking from experience, my Mivec Lancer is producing ~100kw at the wheels, and that's already causing too much torque steer - to the point where it can drive in a circle if you so desire.

Those Civics listed there would be ridiculous.

[Quatters]

1996 Civic Type R (EK9)
Don't like FWD, not for me
To each his own, I guess. I don’t like boring FWD family cars, but an 8500rpm redline and 130kw at the front wheels can’t be put in the same basket.

Nissan Leopard (similar to Cedric/Gloria, V6 Turbo)
GOD YES! The fact that there's about 5 in Aus earns it a huge thumbs up from me. It's more like a Nissan Soarer if you really want to start comparing
I love the look of the one that’s on sale right now, but it’s 4 door – the Soarer is 2 door. I’ve also looked at Soarers but they’re all Autos. I’d need to price up manual conversions for the JZ models before I considered one.

Various S14 Silvia Ks
Thumbs up

Various Spec S (non turbo) S15s
Why no turbo?
Turbo models are out of my price range

Evo V
They are quick, but I don't know, something about EVOs has never floated my boat
The Evo V is where I start liking them. The only old model Evo I like is the 3, the 4 is boring but the 5/6 are awesome. 5 is the only one in my price bracket.

Mazda RX-7 (FC/FD)
FC hell yes!
Why not FD?

Mazda Cosmo 13B TT
I'm assuming you get free fuel :cool: If that's not a problem, then several thumbs up
The awesome factor is too high to pass up. Have you seen their rear seats?

Toyota Altezza RS200
Probably would be lower down on my list than the others
A common Aussie mistake. Your Altezzas != our Altezzas. The 4cyl RS200 is an awesome machine, M3 performance at a fraction of the price.

And a 1994 Civic EG6 with a worked 2.2L Euro R engine
Despite being FWD the engine makes it interesting.
Torque Steeeeeer! I’ve got to test drive this thing.

I found an S2000 in my price range last night - $14,000 for a 1999 model putting out 197kw at the wheels, a full homologated roll bar and fixed back bucket seats with racing harnesses - a proper Club Car. It needs a new soft top but for that price it'd be hard to pass up 9000rpm of VTEC power.
At the same time, you have to wonder WHY it's so cheap. It'll either be an awesome deal from someone who needs cash fast, or a money pit
Like I said, the cloth top needs replacing. No idea what one costs but I’d say it wouldn’t be cheap. On top of that, a lot of the interior is in average condition and the roll bar needs work to be certed for track use, which I’d imagine would set someone back a bit. Also it only comes with the fixed back seats, so unless you fit them they won’t be comfortable, and they’re difficult to sell on. I think he just wants to get rid of it. Also it’s 14k no reserve but there’s no buy now and he’s not taking offers, I think he’s expecting the price to jump up a bit.

Oh the other noteworthy car I saw was a $4500 Fiat Uno Turbo, which the owner claims will pull harder than an Evo 7 when it's on boost. I'd at least have to test drive it.
I'd doubt his claims, they'd need so much work for that. But then again, I've seen V8 Cappuccinos.
We’ll just have to wait and see. The price is appealing, for sure.

As for JZX100 Chasers, they’re all either out of my price range, Automatic (2JZ manual conversions cost an arm and a leg), or stripped out and thrashed drift hacks.

I only know about the Leopard coupes, never seen the 4 doors.

Doesn't the RS200 only have 150kw? I think it's more a 325 competitor than M3. Plus considering their prices here, the E36 M3 is cheaper and has almost 100kw more power!

With the JZX100s, here there's an almost 10k premium to get it in manual :(

[Clockw0rk]

Here's that Leopard. (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/Nissan/Leopard/auction-245535292.htm)

The Chaser conversion would cos that much if you were putting in a 6spd Getrag from the JZA80 Supra. Those gearboxes will easily run you over $5000 secondhand.
RS200s are considerably more expensive in Aus because they're so difficult to import (there's only about 10 or so actual RS200s in Aus IIRC). An E36 in NZ costs almost $10k more than a good RS200, and for that $10k you can do a ridiculous amount of work.

[Blue]

I don't know how you could even consider something like that bloody Leopard. So bloody average, in an incredibly rare sort of way. :p

If you can get a good deal on that S2000, it'd be a brilliant option, but otherwise, I'd be grabbing an RX-7 FD any day of the week. To this day a fantastic car, and an icon. You'd have it for years.

[Lazlow]

RS200s are considerably more expensive in Aus because they're so difficult to import

mrlk impossible.

Unless you live overseas for more than 12 months and it becomes part or your property you ain't getting one in. Apparently importing one would be seen as robbing Lexus of a sale >_>

[Quatters]

Here's that Leopard. (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/Nissan/Leopard/auction-245535292.htm)

The Chaser conversion would cos that much if you were putting in a 6spd Getrag from the JZA80 Supra. Those gearboxes will easily run you over $5000 secondhand.
RS200s are considerably more expensive in Aus because they're so difficult to import (there's only about 10 or so actual RS200s in Aus IIRC). An E36 in NZ costs almost $10k more than a good RS200, and for that $10k you can do a ridiculous amount of work.


Normally auto-to-man conversions are a bit of a waste. It's generally cheaper to just get the more expensive manual in the first place.

Didn't know RS200s were so cheap in NZ! Yeah, 10k gives you alot of fun!

BTW, that was me on /o/
My net ****ed out just as I was hitting Submit to respond and then I had to go out so I never got to reply.


I don't know how you could even consider something like that bloody Leopard. So bloody average, in an incredibly rare sort of way. :p

If you can get a good deal on that S2000, it'd be a brilliant option, but otherwise, I'd be grabbing an RX-7 FD any day of the week. To this day a fantastic car, and an icon. You'd have it for years.

Bippu.
Go away.

Also speaking of the RX7 debate. Too many fully hectik bros and ricers in FDs and lusting for them. FC is less conspicuous.

mrlk impossible.

Unless you live overseas for more than 12 months and it becomes part or your property you ain't getting one in. Apparently importing one would be seen as robbing Lexus of a sale >_>

Exactly.
Import laws are pretty much.
1- Car is RAWS approved, and has to be something not available here/substantially different. (no idea why the Japanese S15 Silvia can get in but the RS200 can't)
2- You've owned the car overseas for 12 months.

[Lazlow]

Is the IS200 manufactured locally? (AFAIK, not) Only solid reason I can think of.

Normally auto-to-man conversions are a bit of a waste.

There's a guy on QG18DE.net that had a manual conversion done on his auto B15 Sentra, but the end result is he doesn't have a clutch. So I've got no idea what that did there.

[Blue]

Bippu.
Go away.

Also speaking of the RX7 debate. Too many fully hectik bros and ricers in FDs and lusting for them. FC is less conspicuous.Yes, it is less conspicuous, in an ugly, boxy, eighties sort of way. FD, however, is an undeniable classic, and a more impressive acquisition. I wouldn't not buy a car that I like simply because 'wogs and Asians' drive them. I'd buy the car I want to drive, and **** preconceptions.

[Lazlow]

Yeah tbh, fully sick ricers haven't ruined the FD for me. Mainly because they're not as prevalent as Skylines or Supras.

That said, any car kept nicely stock on the exterior and tuned under the hood and chassis is a pretty nice deal.

The recent Fast Fours I picked up has a feature on a S15 and the goddamn aftermarket front bar wasn't even fitted properly. And it's cover car is some immense 550HP Evo VII in the hands of an 18 year old student!

I should probably stop buying that mag, it only makes me angry!

[Shorty]

Dare I ask what you'd think of this track day monster SWB Evo IX (http://www.norris-designs.co.uk/demo-evo9.htm)?

[Blue]

Dare I ask what you'd think of this track day monster SWB Evo IX (http://www.norris-designs.co.uk/demo-evo9.htm)?If it were entirely white, black or red, it would probably scrape into the brackets of good taste.

Laz said it, though. If you have a nice, stock-looking RX-7 in good condition, straight body, no bullshit interior mods either, and some nice, understated racing wheels and exhaust system, it'll stand out due to its class in a sea of tuner shitboxes. Not that you see many around, mind you. I've seen, what, one example on the road in the past six months?

Not to touch a nerve, but his GT-Four, despite the rally-style bonnet scoops and spoiler, was a clean, understated, classy looking example.

[Clockw0rk]

I'm a huge fan of the FD shape, it's a just shame that so many that are de-spoilered and dropped on 20" chromes with the front bumper cut out to make way for a giant intercooler, with some gaudy candy paint job to finish it off.
I'm after a Turbo manual in factory white or yellow with some 17" 5-spokes, a nice lip kit and the spoiler intact.
The problem with an FC is finding one in factory condition, or close to it. As they're 80s cars it's a bit harder to find a nice one and they're often modified with monster tachos and gauges everywhere - standard ricer fare. Then there's the issue of the engine/gearbox - unless the owner had evidence of a rebuild I probably wouldn't go near it.

The cost of manual conversions for various cars depend on 3 things - the gearbox price, the age of the car and a willingness to do it yourself. Newer cars with more electronics are a lot more difficult to convert, and it's also likely that a replacement gearbox will set you back a bit. Older cars can be done in a day without hassles, if you're keen enough.

I'm definitely going to take my time buying the next car, whatever it ends up being. The Celica was a real impulse purchase - it was the second one I called about and the first one I test drove. Even though it was a great car, it took months to get it how I wanted. There are sweet deals coming up all the time, I've just got to hope I get lucky.

[Lazlow]

I'm definitely going to take my time buying the next car,

This... I still have some regrets about missing out on a 3rd Gen Liberty by about a week. But I was pressed for time >_<

[HiredMan]

Toyobaru Implevin? (http://www.smh.com.au/drive/motor-news/ft86-toyotas-sports-car-revealed-20091007-glsf.html)

I reckon the Toyota version of this car will be badged Levin - the 86 in the model code is a dead giveaway..... New Hachi-Roku!

[enrique]

The front of that concept looks like a new Mazda, but looks aside I'm all for a new hachi, Toyota should've built that instead of the hairdressers car that was the last gen Celica.

[Clockw0rk]

I'm cautiously optimistic - this has the potential to be cool but I'm not holding my breath. I guess it'll be priced to compete more with the Mazda3 MPS than the 370z?

To be honest they need to just re-make their entire 90s lineup of cars. Starlet, Levin, MR2, Celica (and GT-Four), Supra, Soarer, Chaser, Aristo, GT-T Caldina and Altezza RS200.

A decade of awesome, followed by the MR-S and an FWD only Celica, and the Yaris. WTF went wrong?

[HiredMan]

I'd suggest that it's well placed to slot into the now empty Silvia segment rather than to compete against the like of the 3 MPS.

[Ezri]

A decade of awesome, followed by the MR-S and an FWD only Celica, and the Yaris. WTF went wrong?

The Japanese car market has shit itself - that's what's gone wrong.

[Clockw0rk]

I've been offered $8000 for the GT-Four by the insurance company.
$8000 is an acceptable price for a 1994 GT-Four Celica.
It is NOT an acceptable price (in my opinion) for a 1994 GT-Four WRC Celica.
Hopefully I can explain this to the insurance company and get them to re-consider the price. Otherwise I'm going to have to get quotes from dealerships which is going to extend the claims process considerably, and might not even affect the end price.

It's like offering $2500 for a JZA70 Manual Supra because GA70 Autos sell for that price. Rarity is always a factor, and it's annoying when I clearly stated the rarity of the car and it's apparently been ignored entirely.

[TAT]

I've been offered $8000 for the GT-Four by the insurance company.
$8000 is an acceptable price for a 1994 GT-Four Celica.
It is NOT an acceptable price (in my opinion) for a 1994 GT-Four WRC Celica.
Hopefully I can explain this to the insurance company and get them to re-consider the price. Otherwise I'm going to have to get quotes from dealerships which is going to extend the claims process considerably, and might not even affect the end price.

It's like offering $2500 for a JZA70 Manual Supra because GA70 Autos sell for that price. Rarity is always a factor, and it's annoying when I clearly stated the rarity of the car and it's apparently been ignored entirely.
I found this: For sale in Euros (http://www.carzone.ie/search/Toyota/Celica/GT-FOUR-/200927194510397/advert?channel=CARS)
The conversion to NZ$ is $11,524.

[TrinityJayOne]

I found this: For sale in Euros (http://www.carzone.ie/search/Toyota/Celica/GT-FOUR-/200927194510397/advert?channel=CARS)
The conversion to NZ$ is $11,524.
But then there is also this to consider-

Out of 2500 GT-Four WRC, 2100 stayed in Japan, 300 were exported to Europe, 77 for Australia, and few to the general markets.
Theoretically it should be far more difficult to acquire one in Australia/NZ, and thus pricier.

HiredMan- Saw the new 86 via the Forza website the other day, and the article mentioned that just about everyone in the industry believes it to be a Sprinter revival. The bodywork smacks of RX-8 x 370Z, and ME RIKEY. :D The interior is horrid, however.

[Blue]

I've been offered $8000 for the GT-Four by the insurance company.
$8000 is an acceptable price for a 1994 GT-Four Celica.
It is NOT an acceptable price (in my opinion) for a 1994 GT-Four WRC Celica.
Hopefully I can explain this to the insurance company and get them to re-consider the price. Otherwise I'm going to have to get quotes from dealerships which is going to extend the claims process considerably, and might not even affect the end price.

It's like offering $2500 for a JZA70 Manual Supra because GA70 Autos sell for that price. Rarity is always a factor, and it's annoying when I clearly stated the rarity of the car and it's apparently been ignored entirely.Sorry, but if you agreed on a market value when you insured it, that's most likely what you'll get. It's not as if you've taken a wreck that cost $500 and stored it so that it's worth $50k. In insurance terms, and also for resale, the 'improvements' you've made to the car are superfluous additions.

[Shorty]

Holy shit. (http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/13/german-tuner-builds-v10-powered-bmw-m3-wagon/) :cool:

[Lazlow]

Those wacky germans!

[HiredMan]

Meh, Hartge did it years ago with and E92 sedan :p

I believe they've been working on putting the M5 V10 into a 1-Series coupe recently.....

[enrique]

Holy shit. (http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/13/german-tuner-builds-v10-powered-bmw-m3-wagon/) :cool:

That is nothing short of awesome! I'd love that as a daily driver. :cool:

I think Manhart are the same guys who put the V10 in the Z4. ;) It seems to be their speciality putting that V10 in cars that the factory would not even consider. Good stuff!

[Shorty]

Proof that car ads need moar Samuel L. Motherfarkin' Jackson (http://www.autoblog.com/2009/10/14/great-vengeance-and-furious-anger-samuel-l-jackson-pontiac-voi/).

[Clockw0rk]

Meh, Hartge did it years ago with and E92 sedan :p

I believe they've been working on putting the M5 V10 into a 1-Series coupe recently.....
Some tuning company did a swap into an E30... lemme find the link. (http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2929437)


Sorry, but if you agreed on a market value when you insured it, that's most likely what you'll get. It's not as if you've taken a wreck that cost $500 and stored it so that it's worth $50k. In insurance terms, and also for resale, the 'improvements' you've made to the car are superfluous additions.
I know I won't get back the $4000 or so I've spent on the car since I bought it. My point is that it's a rarer version of the GT-Four, which should factor into the market value. A TurboA MA70 Supra is barely different from the regular MA70, yet due to the fact that there's only 500 TurboAs worldwide, their market value is significantly higher. The same should apply for the GT4 vs. the GT4 WRC.

[Clockw0rk]

Update on the valuation appeal:

I've put together some information on the car along with a couple of links to auctions and owners club sites, although all GT-Four specific sites seem to be very poorly maintained. I've found a couple of magazine articles with information on the WRC edition and have also attached them. I've got the pictures of my engine bay showing the anti-lag plumbing (I didn't include the anti-lag photo originally since it seemed pointless). I've emailed the Albany branch which imported the first 5 WRC GT-Fours and the Hastings branch which imported my car back in 2001 so hopefully one of them will get back to me with some information or an offer for valuation. My mechanic is also drafting up a letter with information on the car.

As I've said, the end aim is to prove to the insurance company that the current market value (that phrase is important) of my car is higher than the NZ$8000 that they've quoted me. With all the information I've been able to gather, I should have a fair shot at doing so.

[Clockw0rk]

MY CAR HAS BEEN FOUND

Police called today to say my car has been found. Here's everything I know so far:

It's been found by police and is being held at a salvage yard until I pick it up or decide what I want to do with it (standard policy).
The car is in good condition: no major dents or scratches, interior intact, $400 head unit in place (there are "marks" on the centre console where it appears they've tried to remove it) ignition intact (weird cos my keys weren't stolen), engine runs. Doesn't smell of weed or urine or anything out of the ordinary.

It's been fingerprinted and prints have been sent off to be looked at but that's just happened today so it'll take a while before anything solid happens.

As far as insurance goes I really don't know where I stand. I don't know if I'm obliged to take it back, or if I can negotiate for repairs, or if I can just take the money they offered (which is still in debate anyway).

Questions will be answered by Friday. At this point, everything I've written up there is literally everything I know.

[Blue]

Good to hear.

[Clockw0rk]

Slight update:
I'll talk to the police tomorrow and get some more details on where it was found etc.

Independent valuation came back today at $10,000. That's useless however, as the insurance company refuses to pay out now that the car is recovered.

The place that's holding it is a large complex that the police use for their stolen vehicles etc. They're going to hold it for a couple of days and do a very thorough check of the car (at the expense of the insurance company, naturally) and let me know if there's anything that needs my attention. Once they've let me know I can pick it up, I'll give it a going-over myself for any cosmetic changes since it's been taken, and if there's anything that needs doing then I'll negotiate with the insurance company and work will be done by a mechanic/panelbeater of my choice, at their expense.

How cool would it be if I could swing a full engine/gearbox rebuild?

[Lazlow]

That's being optimistic :p

[enrique]

How cool would it be if I could swing a full engine/gearbox rebuild?

:D Nice thinking there, hope it happens. Great to hear your car was found Clockwork and from the sounds of it pretty much intact, not a burnt out shell as so often happens. Best of luck with the insurance company. :)

[Clockw0rk]

OK so after a lot of phonecalls I got through to someone who could answer questions.
The car was found literally 500m from the house, down a side street. The boost gauge has been stolen but aside from that everything is inside the car, and works. There's no sign of damage to the body, engine, wheels or tyres. My guess is they just drove it to their house, unloaded it, drove it to where it was found and scarpered.

The centre console fascia is cracked and the right hand A-pillar cover is broken, but they can both be replaced. Insurance is getting on board, it's with the mechanic and if all goes well hopefully it'll have a new ProSport Boost Gauge by the end of the week I'll have my car back.

[SOX]

That's awesome news man

[Shorty]

Agreed.

Also, in case anyone hadn't seen this, here's the Dodge Viper ACR lapping the 'Ring at 7:22.1.

inO-F5mbtKw

[Clockw0rk]

Had a chat with the mechanic today regarding my boost gauge.
"Would you mind putting one of those ProSport ones in?"
"Well, what brand was it before?"
"Autogauge. (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts-accessories/Performance/Gauges/auction-249773845.htm)"
"You mean Autometer (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts-accessories/Performance/Gauges/auction-250275315.htm)? ;)"
"Haha if you want"
"Hell, why not VDO (http://www.vdo.co.nz/Performance/gauges/gaugesnew.html)?"
"Haha nah it's OK, just whatever's easiest"
"OK, VDO then."

:D

[adam_91vn]

Not sure if this is has been posted

ZBSVqOc-CN4

XyOVqaJzyMI

[kirok]

I just bought a Hyundai Getz it's very good on fuel and has a awesome sound system which is a 6 speaker stereo dual airbags and shyt to make me feel safer it's not new though 5 years old but still in immaculate condition only bummer is I backed it into a pole trying to reverse it into my driveway amazingly it only chipped the paint and left a couple scuff marks I thought It would have put a dent in the back bumper but nup pretty good little car. ;)

[REQUIEM]

[QUOTE=adam_91vn;1131586]Not sure if this is has been posted

ZBSVqOc-CN4

QUOTE]

That was sweet..

[kirok]

And this is my proof that ford beat's Holden Hands Down not even trying this clip's a bit old and most have probably seen it but for those who haven't enjoy.

JXXyzDgnUjg

[HiredMan]

Not sure if this is has been posted

ZBSVqOc-CN4

Check out the Bride computer chairs the comentators have, awesome! Want one of those!

P.S. drift was nuts too :D

[Clockw0rk]

That drift was INSANE. Easily deserves the "perfect drift" title. He was facing backwards! Also I really, really want one of those bride chairs.

The GT4 repairs have been delayed by a couple of days due to technical problems at the workshop. Nothing to do with the car, but it means it won't be fixed for the weekend. I might take it home for the weekend anyway, I can live without a boost gauge.

[REQUIEM]

And this is my proof that ford beat's Holden Hands Down not even trying this clip's a bit old and most have probably seen it but for those who haven't enjoy.

JXXyzDgnUjg

Growing up in London in the 80's my older brother had a Capri 2.0lt S so that was amusing to say the least. (I know that isnt a normal capri) They ruined the great name of capri with that BS Australian convertable.

[Clockw0rk]

Shit yeaaaaah. Weekend powercruise to the beach. That's not my flatmate's Altezza, just a couple that happened to be parked up.

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/7650/img0085km.jpg
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/5950/img0062l.jpg
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/5177/img0058x.jpg
http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/4805/img0054l.jpg

I know, it needs a wash. I'll get round to it once everything mechanical is sorted.

[enrique]

Good to see you back on the road Clockwork. :)

[Shorty]

PorscheMan- I mean, HiredMan, you'd appreciate this - 2010 Porsche 911 Turbo apparently their quickest 911 to date (http://www.autoblog.com/2009/11/02/2010-porsche-911-turbo-first-drive/).

[HiredMan]

Yup. Porsche quotes 0-100km/h (0-62mph) in 3.4 for the new Turbo and their quoted performance figures are always conservative. American mags/sites usually get significantly quicker acceleration times from 911's (I believe this is because they test them 1-up with not much fuel in the tank, and I've also read somewhere that they use some sort of NHRA drag launch rules that usually shave another 0.1 second or so off the times) so I'm not suprised they managed 0-60mph in under 3.2.

Hadn't seen that particular body kit and spoiler for the Turbo before though, I like it.

[enrique]

Hadn't seen that particular body kit and spoiler for the Turbo before though, I like it.

Yeah that pic of the blue car kinda reminds me of a 993 RS, bodykit must be a option. Looks nice though.

[Lazlow]

What the f*** is with chicks spelling out their name with Volkswagen lettering on the boot lip of their car?

And I thought Chev badges on Holdens was lame.

[Shorty]

A new challenger (http://www.autoblog.com/2009/11/04/sema-2009-htt-plethore-lc-750-yet-another-ambitious-supercar-s/) enters the ring!

[HiredMan]

Porsche announces Boxter Spyder. (http://www.smh.com.au/drive/motor-news/porsche-revives-the-spyder-20091106-i0zs.html)

I'll have mine in brushed silver with "Lil' Bastard" script in black across the engine cover thanks!

[Lazlow]

A new challenger (http://www.autoblog.com/2009/11/04/sema-2009-htt-plethore-lc-750-yet-another-ambitious-supercar-s/) enters the ring!

There are so many borrowed design cues, I don't know where to begin. But I don't hate it.

[Blue]

There are so many borrowed design cues, I don't know where to begin. But I don't hate it.You're right, it's like a car from Ridge Racer, Burnout or GTA, that seeks to resemble a real-world model, without replicating it exactly.

That Spyder looks okay, better than the other Boxers, but I still don't really get it. Too much rear-overhang, awkward proportions …

[Quatters]

The Japanese car market has shit itself - that's what's gone wrong.

I know.
It was sort of weird there. You see way more Japanese performance cars in Sydney than Japan. Skylines, RX7s, Imprezas, Silvias, Supras. They're all here!

The only cars that outnumbered in the performance field were new GT-Rs, V37 Skylines and NSXs. I saw a fair few NSXs there, whereas here I only see them once a week or so on average.

It's all Kei-vans, big vans (Alphard, El Grande) or big sedans (Crowns, Mark 2, Cima etc)

I've posted a bunch of pics on UYAC for anyone that's interested in some of the wacky stuff I've seen!

Still got way more to post. Over 1000 pics and slow internet do not make good bedfellows.

MY CAR HAS BEEN FOUND

Police called today to say my car has been found. Here's everything I know so far:

It's been found by police and is being held at a salvage yard until I pick it up or decide what I want to do with it (standard policy).
The car is in good condition: no major dents or scratches, interior intact, $400 head unit in place (there are "marks" on the centre console where it appears they've tried to remove it) ignition intact (weird cos my keys weren't stolen), engine runs. Doesn't smell of weed or urine or anything out of the ordinary.

It's been fingerprinted and prints have been sent off to be looked at but that's just happened today so it'll take a while before anything solid happens.

As far as insurance goes I really don't know where I stand. I don't know if I'm obliged to take it back, or if I can negotiate for repairs, or if I can just take the money they offered (which is still in debate anyway).

Questions will be answered by Friday. At this point, everything I've written up there is literally everything I know.


Hurray!

[Clockw0rk]

A new challenger (http://www.autoblog.com/2009/11/04/sema-2009-htt-plethore-lc-750-yet-another-ambitious-supercar-s/) enters the ring!
1300hp is the only thing about that car that's even remotely interesting.

Porsche announces Boxter Spyder. (http://www.smh.com.au/drive/motor-news/porsche-revives-the-spyder-20091106-i0zs.html)

I'll have mine in brushed silver with "Lil' Bastard" script in black across the engine cover thanks!
Aren't all the boxters convertibles?
So this is just like a special edition boxter called the Spyder, with no inspiration or design cues from the original as far as I can tell?
I'm sure it's a great car but it's impossible to get excited about anything Porsche announces these days.

[HiredMan]

So this is just like a special edition boxter called the Spyder, with no inspiration or design cues from the original as far as I can tell?
I'm sure it's a great car but it's impossible to get excited about anything Porsche announces these days.

You are dead to me :(

In other news, the Porsche Panamera Turbo is setting some unbelieveable performance figures: evo (who I believe usually test 2-up with a full tank) got one to 60mph in 3.6 seconds and to 100mph in 8.9. Ca-ray-zay.

EDIT: oh, and BMW have just announced the M3 GTR (http://www.smh.com.au/drive/motor-news/bmw-m3-about-to-get-meaner-20091106-i1rz.html). I really cant see the point: at the estimated price, you could most likely get a Porsche GT3 RS which would rip off it's head and shit down it's neck on a track.

[Clockw0rk]

See, I agree with you there.
That Beemer isn't even road legal from factory. First they charge an arm and a leg to strip everything out, then they charge more to put it all back in.

[Shorty]

The normal BMW M3 isn't street legal?

[TrinityJayOne]

No, according to the article the M3 GTS isn't, but M will de-tune it a bit on request.

We need a Panamera and Estoque in FM3 so that me and HM can have it off. :D

[HiredMan]

And a Rapide for.... erm, someone else!

[enrique]

And a Rapide for.... erm, someone else!

I'll take the Rapide!! And then slot in a DBR9 engine sans air restrictors...:D

[Shorty]

Speaking of the Panamera, someone's already making a kit for it (http://www.insideline.com/porsche/panamera/tuner-special-speedart-panamera-ps9-650.html).

[Quatters]

You are dead to me :(

In other news, the Porsche Panamera Turbo is setting some unbelieveable performance figures: evo (who I believe usually test 2-up with a full tank) got one to 60mph in 3.6 seconds and to 100mph in 8.9. Ca-ray-zay.

EDIT: oh, and BMW have just announced the M3 GTR (http://www.smh.com.au/drive/motor-news/bmw-m3-about-to-get-meaner-20091106-i1rz.html). I really cant see the point: at the estimated price, you could most likely get a Porsche GT3 RS which would rip off it's head and shit down it's neck on a track.


The M3 GTS seems to be estimated to be a hell of a lot cheaper than a GT3 RS... not too sure what price you read.

Ideally GT3 RS for track and M3 Sedan as a daily.

[HiredMan]

According to the banter at sc.net, the GT3 RS retails in Germany for 125k Euro approx after tax and the GTS is 115k before tax, which should make it significantly more expensive than the Porsche over there. Who knows about here though.

[MacGuyver]

Sorry if this has been posted here before (shamelessly stolen from another forum!) but here are a few links to a web cam at the Nord entry area of the Nurburgring.

Here is the compilation of pictures taken once every minute from the web cam updated daily. Just click on the menu on the left for the date you want to check out:

http://www.8200rpm.com/webcam/index.php

And here is the live web cam refreshed every 60 seconds:

http://www.nuerburgring.de/fileadmin/webcam/webcam.jpg

I've been checking the compilation site and have seen many Porches, a few R35 GTRs and a heap of BMWs.

Few examples:

http://www.brokenlogic.net/nuerburgring/webcam_2009-11-07%2003:58:11.jpg

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/post-a255334-webcam-35.jpg

http://www.brokenlogic.net/nuerburgring/webcam_2009-11-10%2003:11:12.jpg

I haven't seen anything really exotic yet, but one day I might get lucky!

[HiredMan]

Mmmmm, GT2, GT3 RS, Megane R26.R....

[Shorty]

TechArt squeezes a little extra juice from the Carrera 4S (http://www.autoblog.com/2009/11/11/techart-squeezes-more-power-out-of-porsche-911-carrera-4s/).

[Clockw0rk]

4Q68XPs3V90

[Shorty]

Yeah, this guy (in the video) totally knows cars. Not. :p

[Clockw0rk]

That's a Veyron, clockwork, not a Lambo. :p
I'm pretty sure it's a Lambo, dude.

Haha, beat your ninja edit!

[Shorty]

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu328/zerosignal/Cat-Curses.jpg

[texta]

I'm pretty sure it's a Lambo, dude.

Haha, beat your ninja edit!Either Lambo is slang for a Buggatti Veyron or it's the nickname of the driver (Andy House) or I have no idea what you're talking about.

http://www.carblog.co.za/2009/11/16/bugatti-veyron-lake/

[Clockw0rk]

Watch the video...

[Lazlow]

$10 its a viral ad... probably just an MR2 with a Bugatti shell >_>

The whole thing is far too convenient and outrageous. Though I have just spent the weekend watching 2 seasons of the Gruen Transfer (where they covered both the Mark Ekko tagging Air Force One and the woman finding the lost jacket virals).

The error in the voice over makes it sound genuine, but I'm just too cynical to buy it. I do say this without even looking into it.

[Shorty]

Real or not, it wouldn't be the first time (http://www.wreckedexotics.com/veyron/veyron_20070325_001.shtml) a Veyron has crashed.

[Lazlow]

In this case however;

He told police he had dropped his mobile phone as he sped alongside the lagoon while taking his newly delivered car out for a test drive.

When he looked up from picking up the phone he was startled by a low-flying pelican which caused him to swerve off the road.

If anyone can spot a pelican in that footage you're doing better than I. >_>

[Shorty]

If anyone can spot a pelican in that footage you're doing better than I. >_>

Now that you mention it, I couldn't spot a pelican there, either. The "dropped mobile" theory is pretty plausible, though.