George R. R. Martin's "A Song of Ice and Fire" book and HBO series

[JC Henderson]

Ok, so apparently in season 2 of Game of Thrones they're -

Adding characters not in the books
Changing characters names
Introducing characters from Book 3 already.

If you've already neck-bearded over the first season you are going to have a field day.

Introducing characters from book three makes sense. Many of the events overlap from the two books anyway.

[grimace06]

Introducing characters from book three makes sense. Many of the events overlap from the two books anyway.

I understand this. But the actual nature of the character introduction and story angle that's pushed forward will make the show feel like other cookie cutter drama shows.

[Slippery]

You assume, you know, having not actually watched it yet.

[NiB]

They've changed Asha Greyjoy's name so people don't confuse her with Osha...WTF ?

[fishfishmonkeyhat]

Well they are exactly the same name, going from your post.

[Slippery]

Is that really a big deal?

[Azzaman]

They've changed Asha Greyjoy's name so people don't confuse her with Osha...WTF ?

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwVnKW8Bs_ddc4vw7Ql_047p4WpPAKo yx_fDOdM8TOlgvswai4hg

Just finished up watching Game of Thrones. Wow, that is up there as one of the best TV series I have watched. Does anyone know when Clash of Kings is coming out?

I need to track down these books as well.

[NiB]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwVnKW8Bs_ddc4vw7Ql_047p4WpPAKo yx_fDOdM8TOlgvswai4hg

Just finished up watching Game of Thrones. Wow, that is up there as one of the best TV series I have watched. Does anyone know when Clash of Kings is coming out?

I need to track down these books as well.

I meant, it's pointless ? I don't care if they change things to adapt it better for TV...as long as there's some point to it

[fishfishmonkeyhat]

I read somewhere it was changed so people wouldn't confuse her with another character with a similar sounding name.

[Azzaman]

Started reading the book last night, got about 90 pages into GoT. I know what happens thanks to the TV show, but it's still a cracking read.

I got a 4 book set from amazon, should probably pick up the latest one soon as I'll prob get up to it before I know it...

[Slippery]

Few pages from the end of a Storm of Swords. Hard to compare to Game of Thrones since I watched the series first, but I definitely prefer it to a Clash of Kings. Going to take a break before A Feast For Crows, need to find something else to read!

[HiredMan]

I got a 4 book set from amazon, should probably pick up the latest one soon as I'll prob get up to it before I know it...

I'm waiting for the paperback for A Dance With Dragons, the hardcover is ****ing huge.

I'm about 2/3 through vol 1 of Storm of Swords.

[Slippery]

Volume 1?

[Azzaman]

I saw that the paperbacks at big w have some 2 parters. My set has small fonts so the books aren't overly massive in size, GoT is still 800 or so pages though. I'm not really a pedantic collector so I'm not overly fussed if bk5 is hardcover and the rest are paperback, but yeah the hardcover is particularly huge...

[Slippery]

SoS is like 1200 pages in the pack of four form I have it, but it's just as unweildy to read the opening pages as the other two :p

[grimace06]

Volume 1?

One print run (the 03' edition) split Storm of Swords into two parts - Steel and Snow and Blood and Gold.

[immol8]

qYNeT2nzEgA

You're 120 posts late.

[fishfishmonkeyhat]

You're only one page late!

BICKITY-BAM!

[Azzaman]

Finished a Game of Thrones last week and have gotten stuck into a Clash of Kings. I'm about 250 pages in so far. I don't know if it's because I watched the series first but this one isn't quite the page turner the first book was. There's some POV characters I'm just not liking and it's a bit of a slog to get through their chapters to get to the good stuff, but I like the vast majority of it so far.

I'm guessing Daenerys is gonna kick all kinds of arse at some point and claim her throne back, but I guess nothings inevitable...

[Watchers]

Azzaman needs more pictures.

[Azzaman]

Something like that ;)

I was on night shift the past week so maybe I'm finding it harder to read cause I'm so damn tired.

Or maybe mr martin needs to learn how to draw :p

[Slippery]

I found CoK to be a little like that, Storm of Swords is a fair bit better imho. Not that I'm saying CoK is bad, it's pretty sweet.

[aubergine]

Not that I'm saying CoK is bad, it's pretty sweet.

Wrong thread.

[Azzaman]

And there's the main reason I stopped abbreviating the book titles!

[Slippery]

I stand by it.

[ElPresidente]

...salty.

What?!

[HiredMan]

I like CoK more than GoT.....

Erm >_>

[Azzaman]

I cant wait to have a FoC btw, I'm hearing good things about it

[HiredMan]

Just read the "Red Wedding"

HOLY SHIT

Got to this at about 3am this morning. HOLY SHIT

[aubergine]

Nice day for it?

[Ad-Rock]

Finished reading Feast yesterday, for the second time.

The first time through it was my least favourite. Now it is my favourite!

[^gR]

Hmm. I read a storm of swords (vol 1). Then wanted to know what was gonna happen, so i went and read spoilers on wikipedia

... do many more characters wanna get ****ing killed? jesus, by the end of the series there's gonna be no main characters left alive. Seriously.. its kinda put me off it


ps. jon snow. defs best character in the books

[Watchers]

If that really bothers you, stop reading now. For serious.

[Azzaman]

I'm about 100 pages into storm of swords. Good read so far, surprised that Jamie is a pov character, makes me think theres some redeemable quality to him I can't see.

@ghosty didn't Ned stark biting it warn you?

[fishfishmonkeyhat]

If that really bothers you, stop reading now. For serious.

It seems he's already moved on to Wikipedia.

[HiredMan]

ps. jon snow. defs best character in the books

No way, he's too goody-goody.

Bronn of the Blackwater and Sandor "The Hound" Clegane are my favs.

[Ad-Rock]

Sandor's my favourite with Tyrion and Jaime a close second/third.

[NiB]

Finally finished a Dance with Dragons...the wait for the next book is going to suck

[Azzaman]

I just finished Storm of swords, I was a bit iffy on the book till about half way through then it just grabbed me and wouldn't let me go.

80-ish pages into Feast now, it's not really gripping me like the last few, but I'll persevere I'm guessing like the rest It'll have me hooked by page 400-500.

I'm not looking forward to the wait after Dance either, how long between drinks for books, a few years? *sigh*

[Azzaman]

Just finished feast. Easily my least favorite one. I think it's because all my favorite characters were left out (Jon, daenereys, tyrion) so far so good with dance. I haven't really enjoyed any of the intro's so far. It's like I read through them just to get to the next character..

[JC Henderson]

I am all done. DWD takes a long time to get going but there is some sweet moments. I am now enjoy the Ironborn especially now that I associate Skyrim vikings with them

[Watchers]

You didn't associate vikings with them before?

[JC Henderson]

You didn't associate vikings with them before?

Yeah but it was more the Hagar the Horrible ;)

[Azzaman]

Done, wow I devoured these books. Kinda disappointed by dance, not much seemed to happen. But I still enjoyed it more then feast.

Bring on winds of winter

[fishfishmonkeyhat]

rOzXsqoJhtE

[aubergine]

A bit over 200 pages into Feast For Crows and so far it is utter tedium. It reminds me of those "Special Edition" movies where they put back in the content that wasn't good enough to be there the first time, except it's a whole book of those scenes.

I never finished last 3 Dark Tower books because King was simply pulling his cock by that point, and despite Martin's masturbation being all over King on his best day, there better be a pretty hefty payoff at the end of this horseshit.

[aubergine]

Thankfully the book got better, still too many peripheral characters and over-plotted.

How on earth will HBO deal with it? I bet they cut out The Iron Islands.

Here's a brand new trailer for season two.

http://m.au.ign.com/articles/1219472

[aubergine]

Just over a hundred pages into A Dance W Dragons, and there's already been a scene to raise a cheer, which he usually saves until towards the end of the books.

Having to read a scene I'd already read before in Feast for Crows was totally made up for when John Snow so quickly and unexpectedly beheaded Janos Slynt. I figured that would take at least 600 pages to happen, but maybe Alliser Thorne is going to be the pain-in-the-arse character again.

[ElPresidente]

Looking forward to your follow up post when you finish Dance. :)

[aubergine]

You know I think Martin slipped an almost fourth-wall breaking in-joke in Feast, when Littlefinger says (of Cersei) that he thought he'd have 5 years to implement his machinations against her but she's self-combusting even faster than he thought. is Martin referring to his original plan to have the novel leap ahead 5 years after Storm of Swords, only to discover it was hopelessly rife with flashbacks?

[aubergine]

A game of Simpsons.

http://m.io9.com/5890410/watch-the-simpsons-game-of-thrones-intro

[aubergine]

Looking forward to your follow up post when you finish Dance. :)

I'm not sure I ever will at this rate. I'm so bored by new character on new characters on new characters, adopting false names and going places with new characters and never reaching where they were going. I just finished one boring chapter about another generic battle somewhere with who-cares and the next is another who-the-****-is-this-then.

I thought Stephen King was the most self-indulgent author I'd read, but at least even his worst novels have a protagonist and antagonist. I'm wondering if I can't just start skipping these vast boring chapters to what I hope is the real characters and storylines up ahead somewhere.

[Ad-Rock]

Just started reading Dance (the wait for the paperback edition was worth it), loving it.

[grimace06]

Anyone else got the 2nd episode of season 2 already?

They've handled one of the best reveals in the second book absolutely shit house.

[Ali G]

Anyone else got the 2nd episode of season 2 already?

They've handled one of the best reveals in the second book absolutely shit house.
Yeah, I watched it last night. Not sure which reveal you're talking about though. Asha Greyjoy?

[grimace06]

Yeah, I watched it last night. Not sure which reveal you're talking about though. Asha Greyjoy?

No,

The one concerning Craster - this isn't some Hallmark drama where Jon Snow is a nosy woman. They did it so much more subtly in the book. Also, I have reason to believe the Blood Rider didn't get beheaded in the book and they're just cutting the acting budget where they can without interfering with story.

[HiredMan]

How is ep2 available already?

[grimace06]

How is ep2 available already?


The women are absolute demons in the sack in this episode.

[9warbane]

It was aired on HBO's site.

[Ali G]

No,

The one concerning Craster - this isn't some Hallmark drama where Jon Snow is a nosy woman. They did it so much more subtly in the book. Also, I have reason to believe the Blood Rider didn't get beheaded in the book and they're just cutting the acting budget where they can without interfering with story.
Oh right, yeah. I can't remember exactly how the book handled it, but when I think it about it, the way it was in the episode was pretty silly.

And yeah, I'm pretty sure you're right about the blood rider, but I don't think that makes too much of a difference.

[nintendo]

It was aired on HBO's site.

Cant find a link to that. Eztv hasn't got it, and I hadn't heard anything about airing one of their most anticipated shows almost a week early on their website when they really aren't too friendly to online video.

[aubergine]

I watched rips someone had of the first series, about 6 times through, then bought the series on disc when it became available to. If HBO wants my money sooner they should make their ****ing shows accessible through some reasonable means. I wouldn't even know how to watch this show in Australia without young people stealing it front the Internet for me.

[Ali G]

Cant find a link to that. Eztv hasn't got it, and I hadn't heard anything about airing one of their most anticipated shows almost a week early on their website when they really aren't too friendly to online video.

I think I read somewhere that it was the Dutch version of HBO Go that put up the second episode (it's in English, though). HBO did it last season too (i.e. put up an episode a week early).

Aubergine: I think Season Two starts on Showtime on April 10, which means it'll probably be on iTunes then too. So not really that difficult to watch legitimately.

[aubergine]

Hm. If its not on free-to-air or otherwise free to watch I'm not sure I'm interested, because I'm not going to buy it twice.

I did buy a couple of eps of BSG on iTunes because season 4 took forever to come out on disc, but it was poor image quality and a rip off to boot (and a waste of my sadly limited laptop hard drive space) so not keen to go that route again.

[Ali G]

Hm. If its not on free-to-air or otherwise free to watch I'm not sure I'm interested, because I'm not going to buy it twice.

I did buy a couple of eps of BSG on iTunes because season 4 took forever to come out on disc, but it was poor image quality and a rip off to boot (and a waste of my sadly limited laptop hard drive space) so not keen to go that route again.
Yeah, that's fair enough. The first season of GoT is $28.99 on iTunes, which isn't too bad, but really I'd rather pay the extra $10 for the DVDs.

[aubergine]

Hell yes. I mean BSG looke great on my iPhone but pretty bad on my computer monitor. Buying it that way out of pure desperation to see it, then buying it again on disc to get proper image quality and extras later, just ain't going to happen that way.

Season 5 of The Wire took what seemed like 3-4 years to be released on DVD in Australia, it was appalling. At least GoT was more like 6-9 months. I'f love it to come out the moment the season finishes airing... guess it must upset all their advertising deals.

[Ali G]

Hell yes. I mean BSG looke great on my iPhone but pretty bad on my computer monitor. Buying it that way out of pure desperation to see it, then buying it again on disc to get proper image quality and extras later, just ain't going to happen that way.

Season 5 of The Wire took what seemed like 3-4 years to be released on DVD in Australia, it was appalling. At least GoT was more like 6-9 months. I'f love it to come out the moment the season finishes airing... guess it must upset all their advertising deals.
From what I can tell, HBO does tend to wait until the next season is about to air before it releases the previous season on DVD. Really annoying. Some UK TV shows release the DVDs about a week after it finishes airing.

[aubergine]

I'm kind of accepting if they do that, but the wait for Wire S5 and BSG season 4.2 was just appalling, I mean it was years after airing in the US in both cases. I think Wire S5 might have been four years or something ridiculous. It
certainly felt that long!

[Ninjalada]

I just finished watching the first season.

Loving it!

(I hope Jaime Lannister gets a pike up his bunghole)

[aubergine]

It's going to be interesting to see what they do differently with Jaime. I think they are going to bring forward his stuff from book 3 into book 2.

[Ad-Rock]

Finished A Dance With Dragons
I can now see why it got a lukewarm reception... The whole book felt like a filler episode. Very few significant events took place, and most of the time was spent in repetition...

I'm pretty disappointed, even though I enjoyed it enough. I can't see how he can wrap it up in two books if he maintains this sluggish pace... The editor and publisher really need to get him to trim the fat from the next couple of novels.

[aubergine]

I finished it last night. It ends well, but Martin is doing terrible, self-indulgent work with these last two books. It's still a darn sight better than Stephen Kings Dark Tower series, and that's faint praise. Feast For Crows and Dance With Dragons are just one book, they have weak and unnecessary-feeling story-arcs and too many main characters, and therefore, no main characters.These books are about nothing. There's no antagonist with no plan driving everything, only the hint that a story will emerge at some point. I've read and viewed things like that before, and you can bet that if he's 5000 pages into this and there's no clear plot, there's never going to be.

Jon Snow's death was nicely foreshadowed in an earlier book (when previous Lord Commander's are being described I think, and instances when they were killed by their own for going too far.) I enjoyed The Wall sections more than most but I think it's been pretty clear from book 1 that at some point The Wall has to fail.

If the books don't end with Cersei Lannister being turned into a wight by the Others as they match into Kings Landing, only to have her shaved blue-eyed head melted by a Daeneris (sp?) ridden Drogon...

Likewise, unless Martin is going to start killing with abandon, there's no way his next two books will wind it up. There's

Rickon / Davis / Manderlys
Tyrion / Penny / Ser Jorah
Daenerys / Selmy / Meereen / etc
Victarion / Red Priest
Jaime / Ugly Chick / Cat Stark
Littlefinger / Sansa
Arya
Bran / Frog kids
Sam Tarly / Maestertown
Urine Crow's Eye
Red Priest Woman / The Wall
Stannis
Asha Greyjoy / Theon
The Boltons / Mance Rayder
That gay knight
That guy who had another Targaryan and got greyscale
Dorne
Varys

And everyone I've forgotten, to deal with. Martin will die of old age and a slightly crap writer will finish the tenth book from his notes, and everyone will hate the ending.

"the Iron Throne went to Rickon??"

[DECEIT]

Currently loving the books and watching season 2 of the great HBO series. I just hope that they dont do a SOA & TrueBlood and get worse the futher the series goes. I suppose they have the literiture to fall back on the they are already straying from the books with season 2.

[aubergine]

They are going to have to tighten hell out of the later book material to make it work as a TV series.

For example, with Arya since the Red Wedding, she has no purpose to drive interest in her story. While the stuff with her at the Assasins Temple Thing is interesting in itself, she has no clear purpose to being there. Let's say she's there to learn the skills she needs to kill her list of enemies, and must carefully guard her plan from the Temple Of Deadly Killers who she must eventually betray to kill her list. A TV show could play up some tension about her possibly being "found out" but there is zero tension of that sort in how he's done it in the book.

[ElPresidente]

Yes the temple stuff is interesting but as its own little story arc, it really does feel as though GRRM is not 100% sure what he wants to do with her.

[Xanafalgue]

Cersei; what a fabulous ****!

[Azzaman]

Yes the temple stuff is interesting but as its own little story arc, it really does feel as though GRRM is not 100% sure what he wants to do with her.

I always envisioned her returning as a master assassin, or perhaps taking Varys role once the new ruler takes power (I'm assuming Daenerys) but of course nothing happens in this series as 'planned'.

[aubergine]

Yes but in this case there's no apparent "plan", she's just faffing about in Braavos.

[Ad-Rock]

I don't think Jon Snow is actual out of the series, there has been a disproportionate amount of time invested in to him without any obvious payoff. The prologue was about how wargs merge with their animals when their human body dies, and that Snow is really powerful but uneducated. He'll be back in some way, and I reckon Bran will have something to do with it.

I also have no idea about wtf he's going to do with Arya... But I think it will be ****ing sick.

[Ali G]

I don't think Jon Snow is actual out of the series, there has been a disproportionate amount of time invested in to him without any obvious payoff. The prologue was about how wargs merge with their animals when their human body dies, and that Snow is really powerful but uneducated. He'll be back in some way, and I reckon Bran will have something to do with it.

I also have no idea about wtf he's going to do with Arya... But I think it will be ****ing sick.

Book 5 spoilers!

I definitely don't think Jon's out of it. I mean, even if he did die, Melisandre's there and it's been established that Red Priests/Priestesses can bring the dead back to life, even in a limited way. I doubt he actually dies though.

The main theory that's floating around is that he's Rhaegar and Lyanna's son, and is Azor Ahai Reborn. It's definitely believable.

[aubergine]

He mentions often that he looks a lot like Ned so I really doubt that.

[Almighty Beanchild]

Martin will die of old age and a slightly crap writer will finish the tenth book from his notes, and everyone will hate the ending.

If this is a reference to Brandon Sanderson finishing WoT, you should shut your whore mouth. He's doing a wayyyy better job than Robert Jordan ever did, in that he can actually write believable characters. GRRM has actually stated that if he does die before finishing, he's leaving instructions not to finish his series off though, so that won't happen anyway.

He mentions often that he looks a lot like Ned so I really doubt that.

They also mention that Lyanna looked a lot like Arya, who is Ned's daughter. Sometimes nephews look like their uncles, this isn't a big stretch. There's also a lot of other evidence to suggest he's Rhaegar/Lyanna's son, and one of the three "Dragon heads" that keep cropping up in Daenrys's prophecy. As of the last book there are now three characters who have Targaryen blood if you count Jon Snow, and three dragons. Jon Snow might lose the wall but I doubt he'll die before riding a dragon against the others.

[Munky]

My take:

Also, IIRC In book 3 somewhere Aemon gets Jon to draw the magic sword and it glows or something and Aemon seems to recognise something in John because of it.

The books really give the impression that Jon is to be the hero of the tale and will ride a Dragon

[aubergine]

If this is a reference to Brandon Sanderson finishing WoT, you should shut your whore mouth. He's doing a wayyyy better job than Robert Jordan ever did, in that he can actually write believable characters. GRRM has actually stated that if he does die before finishing, he's leaving instructions not to finish his series off though, so that won't happen anyway.



They also mention that Lyanna looked a lot like Arya, who is Ned's daughter. Sometimes nephews look like their uncles, this isn't a big stretch. There's also a lot of other evidence to suggest he's Rhaegar/Lyanna's son, and one of the three "Dragon heads" that keep cropping up in Daenrys's prophecy. As of the last book there are now three characters who have Targaryen blood if you count Jon Snow, and three dragons. Jon Snow might lose the wall but I doubt he'll die before riding a dragon against the others.

Not a reference to some other thing, just an obvious problem with any long-winded series.

[Almighty Beanchild]

I guess you can keep your mouth open then :P

[aubergine]

On that topic though, should I bother with Wheel of Tine or is it just another endless torture-fest?

[Almighty Beanchild]

Well like I said, the author responsible for the last three books is a really great fantasy author, one of my favourites. Robert Jordan on the other hand has terrible prose and terrible characters. The accepted wisdom is the first 3 written by Jordan are good, the middle seven are tedious, and if you like Brandon Sanderson, the last three (one yet to be published) are great.

I think you might be better served just checking out Brandon Sanderson personally :P He's started his own epic series, Stormlight Archive, the first book of which is enormous but very good, and he has a trilogy called the Mistborn series, as well as a few standalones.

[aubergine]

My question was answered when you wrote "The Middle Seven".

Not looking for an endless word-grind although that's appropriate to the title.

[Ad-Rock]

I never thought that Jon could be Rhaegar's and Lyanna's son. But it could make a lot of sense.

The main problem I have with this is that all of the Targaryen's have similar appearances, but John looks like a Stark. This theme has arisen before, of course.

It's heavily suggested that he is Ashara Dayne's and Ned's son. Ned took Jon back to Winterfell and Ashara killed herself. But maybe that is too obvious.

This is interesting http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/mlarchives/faq/jon.html

[HiredMan]

Thanks go using the ****ing spoiler tags guys

[aubergine]

Jon Snow's parentage is a question from the start and doesn't constitute a spoiler.

There's so much going on in these books I don't even know who Lyanna is.

[ElPresidente]

Ned's younger sister who was originally betrothed to Bobby Baratheon. Yes, I just called him Bobby. ;)

[Almighty Beanchild]

So the spoiler thing should be obvious but this is a fairly comprehensive assessment of all the different theories on who his parents are:

http://towerofthehand.com/essays/chrisholden/jon_snows_parents.html

[aubergine]

Ned's younger sister who was originally betrothed to Bobby Baratheon. Yes, I just called him Bobby. ;)

Oh right, the dead one.

They mentioned the woman Ned nailed in book when Davos was in Fat manderly city (White Harbour?) I'm pretty sure.