Left 4 Dead 2 - The Sacrifice Add-on Available Now

[Xanafalgue]

Hands-on with Gamespot from Comic Con http://comic-con.gamespot.com/story/6213856/left-4-dead-2-hands-on?tag=top_stories;img;3

Nice pic accompanying the story

http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2009/188/960511_20090708_embed001.jpg

[Xanafalgue]

Is it Left4Dead or Left 4 Dead.. .I always forget.

[adam_91vn]

Left 4 Dead

[JubeiSaotome]

So there's going to be a L4D tournament at AVCon.

[Slippery]

More L4D2 info (http://kotaku.com/5337177/), new map, dlc for L4D1 and maybe even a katana

[Xanafalgue]

More L4D2 info (http://kotaku.com/5337177/), new map, dlc for L4D1 and maybe even a katana

Why oh why do they have to go to an Amusement Park :( I foresee a lot of screaming down my mic.

Meanwhile:

http://www.superhighresolution.net/wpress/wp-content/uploads/504x_spitter10-804.jpg

Nightmares.

[Shorty]

GameTrailers TV has the scoop on a new campaign for L4D2 (http://www.gametrailers.com/episode/gametrailers-tv/67&ch=3&sd=0?ep=67&ch=3&sd=0).

[Xanafalgue]

http://kotaku.com/5356004/left-4-dead-2-boycottersflown-to-valve-to-play-the-game

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/9/2009/09/500x_traitors.jpg

Cheap pricks.

Poor gabe is rather unfortunately built isn't he.

[Tonez]

I love how the original boycotters now have a boycott against them from the original followers of said boycotters.

Hilarious.

[Lazlow]

I must have missed something; why were they boycotting?

[Lex]

jesus christ gabe you lazy fat ****, do you own a shirt that doesn't have a giant grease stain on it??

[Thraxas]

I must have missed something; why were they boycotting?

I think their reasons were that the sequel is coming out too soon to be a true sequel and so should be a free patch for all existing owners.

[sausage]

That punjabby looking dude was lucky Gabe didn't eat him. Fat prick and is that cum or grease on his shirt - scratch that, couldn't possibly be cum (unless it's someone elses).

Nothing really positive to say except lol at Ricky Ponting getting smacked in the OP.

[Tonez]

Basically what Thraxas said.

So Valve offered to bring two of the leaders of the boycott group and fly them over to play the game themselves so that they can see that the game is actually worth a full sequel and not just a patch.

The two boycotters played the game, loved it and wrote about it on their boycott website and now all the followers of the boycott hate them.

It's really awesome.

[Watchers]

People are so stupid.

[Azzaman]

F-ing hillarious! (http://flygabenewell.blogspot.com/)

[Stevorooni]

REFUSED CLASSIFICATION (http://www.kotaku.com.au/2009/09/left-4-dead-2-banned-in-australia/#more-357292)

[Azzaman]

wtf. just, wtf.

[Lazlow]

Zombies are people too man!

Most high profile banning so far?

Will nerds now rage on the steps of parliament?

[Stevorooni]

So how does this affect them selling on Steam?

[Slippery]

Steam will only sell you your regions version, in this case they'll either not sell us L4D2 at all or a censored version which meets an MA15+ standard.

What
the
****

Diablo 3 being pre-censored for submission shat me, but I could import that.

I'm not sure how importing L4D2 will go through Steam, regardless we must be near the straw that breaks the camels back on this. How long till the election where we can kick out Atkinson?

[Lazlow]

Will a censored version work cohesively with the uncut version overseas players will be using?

[sausage]

REFUSED CLASSIFICATION (http://www.kotaku.com.au/2009/09/left-4-dead-2-banned-in-australia/#more-357292)

Sits on his chair in New Zealand :cool:

[Stevorooni]

Will a censored version work cohesively with the uncut version overseas players will be using?

"Dude I just saw you shoot that guy's head off!"
"Really? Because I hugged him until he fell asleep in my version"

[Stevorooni]

I'm not sure how importing L4D2 will go through Steam, regardless we must be near the straw that breaks the camels back on this. How long till the election where we can kick out Atkinson?

March 2010

I won't be involved in any kicking though, I'm in a safe liberal seat.

[Lazlow]

Have sex with your member (lol) and create a scandal.

[Stevorooni]

Atkinson is Labor, so by keeping my seat Liberal it increases the chance of Labor not being in power.

[HiredMan]

**** Atkinson, **** Christian conservative politicians, **** Australia!

[jawsy]

This is the worst birthday present ever!

[Stevorooni]

I think I actually heard HiredMan's screaming from here when he read the news

[sausage]

Hey when did HiredMan get the green font?

[HiredMan]

I got Xbox General a few days ago on the sly ;)

In other news: ****!!!!

[Azzaman]

Sadly Atkinson is prety well liked by the uneducated masses, though recently there was a shooting from a paroled guy that Atkinson pushed to have released. I can't believe that didn't get more coverage.

[Lazlow]

Was he aiming at Atkinson? >_>

[Azzaman]

We wish.

Unfortunately it was some little old lady.

[Watchers]

This is ****ed. How is it any different than the God-damned first game? **** you everybody.

[Azzaman]

lol, just realised, they included the Aussie cricket top in the game and this is how they repay them.

Gabe "We love Australia, it's awesome!"
Govt "Thats cool, BANNED"

[Watchers]

Valve will probably do something to tone it down for us. If it wasn't a Steam game, there'd be no issue as we could just import it. Maybe we all make spoof US Steam accounts and download it that way - downside being we'd have to play on US servers, which would suck.

Edit: Actually, if a toned down version was released here, I'm sure a mod would be available shortly after release to unlock the full content.

[Lazlow]

I'm sure a mod would be available shortly after release to unlock the full content.

Is that allowed?

After Hot Coffee you'd think the OFLC would rather the offending material was completely removed from the code, rather than merely being locked up and hidden.

Though it is exactly what I did with The Punisher on PC >_>

And then there was the nude Mona Sax you could subsitute Max with in Max Payne 2 <_<

[Watchers]

Is that allowed?

After Hot Coffee you'd think the OFLC would rather the offending material was completely removed from the code, rather than merely being locked up and hidden.

Though it is exactly what I did with The Punisher on PC >_>

And then there was the nude Mona Sax you could subsitute Max with in Max Payne 2 <_<

I don't see how they can stop me downloading a mod and installing it. I know shit all about modding, but considering the code would exist in the US version, surely it wouldn't be hard to copy+paste it into a mod... They can't stop people viewing 'adult' content on their PCs... unless the net filter gets passed. >_>

****, people need to move to this century already.

[Azzaman]

Censorship is like telling a man he can't have a steak because a baby can't chew it.

[Lazlow]

I don't see how they can stop me downloading a mod and installing it. I know shit all about modding, but considering the code would exist in the US version, surely it wouldn't be hard to copy+paste it into a mod... They can't stop people viewing 'adult' content on their PCs... unless the net filter gets passed. >_>

****, people need to move to this century already.

Sure they can't stop it, but what of its legallity?

And by modyfing the code, you could possibly be in breach of the EULA. (I know of a case where an Indy Racing League mod for NASCAR 2003 was issued a cease and desist order becuase the mod came with a cracked exe.)

[Watchers]

In that case, I'm not sure. I just don't really care though :p

[Shorty]

REFUSED CLASSIFICATION (http://www.kotaku.com.au/2009/09/left-4-dead-2-banned-in-australia/#more-357292)

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu328/zerosignal/not_this_shit_again.jpg

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu328/zerosignal/john_stewart_facepalm.jpg

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu328/zerosignal/Topic_A_Jon_Stewart_FaceInHisHands.jpg

[lex3191]

this law is so stupid and we all know it. its old news, but i just cant understand michael atkinsons logic. R18+ games are not acceptable, they can get into the hands of kids says michael atkinson. developers say ok we'll make some minor changes, in GTA4 you would hardly notice, and hey presto a R18+ game gets a M15 rating in australia and gets into the hands of kids. well played smart guy

[AranchineD]

Entire Country, Australia Boycotts LFD2

Boycott Group Declares: "Great Success"

[Shorty]

Apparently the game was banned because it was too violent (http://www.news.com.au/files/left%204%20dead%202-%20classification%20board%20decsion%20report.pdf). The melee weapons combined with the ability to see the innards when you hit or shoot someone is what pushed it over the edge, apparently.

Hopefully, EA can appeal the decision and get the game passed uncut.

[Stevorooni]

Or replace the innards with flowers

and rename the game to Left 4 'Oh they're just sleeping' 2

[grimace06]

So this is our yearly high profile game to get banned.

[SOX]

At least the Australian L4D player-base won't be forced to choose between versions and hence risk spliting the community.

[Cobla]

And the Crash Course DLC comes out next week (afaik) so I won't be crying myself to sleep tonight. ;)

Also I think they've got a good chance if they go for an appeal. It wasn't unanimous and there's plenty of games around with examples of similar levels of violence.

One thing I do think is slightly amusing is how the OFLC describes the zombies as merely 'sick humans', thereby raising the impact of the violence inflicted upon them.

Have they never seen a zombie movie?? There is NEVER a cure for infection short of a shotgun blast to the head~! haha I love the optimism though.* It notes that this violence is “inflicted upon ‘the Infected’ who are living humans infected with a rabies-like virus that causes them to act violently.”

[Shorty]

One thing I do think is slightly amusing is how the OFLC describes the zombies as merely 'sick humans', thereby raising the impact of the violence inflicted upon them.

Have they never seen a zombie movie?? There is NEVER a cure for infection short of a shotgun blast to the head~! haha I love the optimism though.

Perhaps that'll form part of the basis for EA's appeal.

[Saxby]

You know what we need?
A National gamers Lobbying organisation to hit the gov where it hurts!

[igotnewsuper8systemWRONG!]

Since when has anyone cared about violence towards zombies?

[Tonez]

Since when has anyone cared about violence towards zombies?

They're humans.

YOU ANIMAL.

[Azzaman]

OK, I now offically have no faith in the govt during the zombie apocalypse.

[Shorty]

OK, I now offically have no faith in the govt during the zombie apocalypse.

If zombie fiction has taught you anything, it's that the government are the last people you should be relying on during the zombie apocalypse.

[Azzaman]

Yes, but even less so now, they'll be actively be trying to do something stupid like "cure" the undead.

[Lazlow]

Pro tip: DON'T go to news.com.au, and DON'T read the comments for the article regarding the RC'ing of L4D2

[Shorty]

Also, don't think of a pink elephant.

[StorminNorman]

Entire Country, Australia Boycotts LFD2

Boycott Group Declares: "Huge Success"

Fixed.

Apparently the game was banned because it was too violent (http://www.news.com.au/files/left%204%20dead%202-%20classification%20board%20decsion%20report.pdf). The melee weapons combined with the ability to see the innards when you hit or shoot someone is what pushed it over the edge, apparently.

That's... actually kind of consistent, then. Dark Sector was originally banned for similar reasons.

[AranchineD]

Wrong pop culture reference Stormin. >_>

[StorminNorman]

Enlighten.

[Stevorooni]

Pro tip: DON'T go to news.com.au, and DON'T read the comments for the article regarding the RC'ing of L4D2

It's too late, I went there before.

I should really stop reading the comments on any news story because my Stupid Detector explodes

[AranchineD]

Enlighten.

If I was to follow it with HIIIIiGH FIIIIVE and someone was to punch me in the face for being an obnoxious dope and quoting a movie that was released a couple years ago now and isn't really funny anymore, would it make more sense?

[StorminNorman]

No, sorry. I don't really watch movies.

[Cerebral]

You don't even hang around dopes who quote the damn movie endlessly?

I gotta find some new friends.

[Cerebral]

It's Borat btw.

[Azzaman]

It's too late, I went there before.

I should really stop reading the comments on any news story because my Stupid Detector explodes

Dammit, why are people so ******ing dumb? (yeah I read it too)

[naclj]

the whole world has turned into zombies if you hadn't noticed.
So there really isn't a distinction between normal human and zombie human.

i wonder if zombie dogs would have the same ban reaction

[Clockw0rk]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA SUCK IT, AUSTRALIA

I'll tell you all about it, don't worry.

[sausage]

High five Clockw0rk

*slap*

[StorminNorman]

It's Borat btw.

Ah right. I'm not a huge Sascha Baron Cohen fan, so I've never seen it.

[Thraxas]

I'm not too worried. I'm sure we'll get a version even if it is a gimped version.

I'm not going to hold my breath for a R18 rating any time soon either. It amazes me how Australia can be so forward thinking in so many things but in this respect it's positively backward. You'd think the Government would introduce it simply so we wouldn't be behind New Zealand in something :p

[Watchers]

People in the comments on news.com.au seem so sure of being able to import it, or buy it off Steam. I really don't think Valve will be able to distribute like that in the country without being at risk legally, and I really don't think local ISPs will host servers for a banned game.

[StorminNorman]

I'm not too worried. I'm sure we'll get a version even if it is a gimped version.

My only worry about this is whether its possible without affecting the networking side of the game. Previous high-profile games that have been banned here have generally not had a lot of internet-based gameplay, so modifications could be made to them pretty easily.

L4D2 is heavily network based, so any change is going to have to be done in such a way as to maintain compatibility with uncensored clients. It would really suck if the censored and uncensored versions couldn't communicate with each other, as it would effectively mean Australians can only play other Australians on local servers, and on XBox Live.

Hopefully the changes can be simple cosmetic changes for which the networking won't matter.

[Watchers]

It would really suck if the censored and uncensored versions couldn't communicate with each other, as it would effectively mean Australians can only play other Australians on local servers, and on XBox Live.


As it stands currently, you pretty much have to do this anyway if you don't want horrible lag.

[AranchineD]

Maybe Valve need to take a card out of Capcom's book and make all the zombie models minorities, the Classifcation Board doesn't seem to mind as much then.

[TAT]

I don't think the changed game code affects lag. Germany have had altered games for a long time now (TF2 included).

[SOX]

I just imagine Valve will just have a gore flag in the game which they will set to off in the relevant countries. I highly doubt it would affect online as it will only be a cosmetic change.

[igotnewsuper8systemWRONG!]

They're humans.

YOU ANIMAL.

I can't wait till zombies are given the right to vote

[Shorty]

If they're animals, does that mean we'll get hot chicks stripping down to help the zombies' "cause"?

[Xanafalgue]

for ****s sake

[Clockw0rk]

How the hell could you get L4D 1 and not 2? What's the difference?

[JubeiSaotome]

Someone's started a facebook event for a parliament letter drop;
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=137013858758

[Hemish71]

Sent my email to the classification board.
This is shit it really is.
Its beyond a joke that you can have r18 for movies, you can say the f word on tv now and have explicit lyrics on CD's and still not have one for games.
Be interested to see if I get a response

[Lazlow]

you can say the f word on tv now

And the C-bomb. Pretty sure it's been dropped a few times on United States of Tara.

Truth be told I think you sent the email to the wrong place. You need to contact the legislators, not the guys who have the follow the rules the legislators lay down. The OFLC themselves has recommended an addition of a R18+ rating.

[autologic]

And the C-bomb. Pretty sure it's been dropped a few times on United States of Tara.
not to mention The Wire and The Sopranos having c-bombs aplenty

[ScToTeE]

Wow.

So how did Gears of War 2 escape with its lovely gore-tastic visuals intact, when games like Left 4 Dead 2 don't? Am I missing a change in the classification requirements between the two game releases? I mean, they both blatantly feature fantastical contexts (zombie apocalypse, alien invasion)... It's not as though the level of realism is akin to that of the Manhunt franchise. And if they're worrying about kids being unable to discern between zombies and humans, well, what good is the MA15 rating if the board doesn't have faith in its ability to regulate access to it.

This trend of censorship reveals a shocking lack of faith in both their own ratings and parents' general ability to make decisions for their children. And if it's more of a case of concerns over the affects video games have on people's behaviour - an argument I completely despise - well, it's a freaking ZOMBIE game! Complete with monstrous giants, exploding obese terrors and skinny things that wrap you with elongated tongues. Oh so convincingly accurate of reality ...

[Shorty]

I'm hoping that the OFLC just got it massively wrong with the "living humans" bit and this whole mess will be resolved by a simple resubmission from EA and a note telling them to RTFM so that they'll know the game features zombies.

Meanwhile, Mark Newton over at Whirlpool had an interesting idea of how a smart State Government might be able to solve the R18+ problem (http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1280335&r=20802048#r20802048).

[Azzaman]

Meanwhile, Mark Newton over at Whirlpool had an interesting idea of how a smart State Government might be able to solve the R18+ problem (http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1280335&r=20802048#r20802048).

Assuming that would work, what state govt would go to the trouble to let the what 4 or 5 games that get banned through? It would only be effective if they re-classified *all* games and make games like gta4, L4D, Dead Space, etc R18+

[big_b]

Pretty glad I live in the UK right about now.

[StorminNorman]

So how did Gears of War 2 escape with its lovely gore-tastic visuals intact, when games like Left 4 Dead 2 don't?

Melee dismemberment. As I mentioned, L4D2 has been banned for almost exactly the same reasons Dark Sector got banned.

Let's just pretend Ninja Gaiden 2 doesn't exist.

[ScToTeE]

Melee dismemberment. As I mentioned, L4D2 has been banned for almost exactly the same reasons Dark Sector got banned.

Let's just pretend Ninja Gaiden 2 doesn't exist.

I'm sorry, but I fail to see much difference between melee dismemberment in Left 4 Dead 2 and being able to repeatedly bash in a bloodied corpse in Gears of War 2 to the point where limbs tear off. (Un)fortunately that's probably why these censorship decisions aren't left up to me... :o

Eh. I'm sure Left 4 Dead 2 will reach our shores eventually. Just a little bummed by the video game censorship issues we have in this country. Oh, and I'll gladly forget about Ninja Gaiden 2, but only because I find it to be over-rated (even despite receiving a lukewarm review in Hyper). :D

[Tonez]

Not that I like this decision but there is a huge difference between dismemberment in Gears of War 2 and dismemberment Left 4 Dead 2 and it's basically because the OFLC consider the zombies as "infected humans".

As soon as you're dismembering humans it's a whole new ball game.

EDIT: As Stormin said though, you need to ignore Ninja Gaiden 2.

[ScToTeE]

Not to bash the point into the ground, but when I was referring to Gears of War 2 it was more in terms of dismembering COG characters (so... non-infected humans...). I should've been clearer in that respect. However, I do see the logic in suggesting a difference between the games' depiction of dismemberment, seeing as the human character designs in Gears of War 2 aren't your regular, everyday human being... :)

[Lazlow]

The OFLC being inconsistent in its judgements is nothing new.

Max Payne heals himself with painkillers, but Fallout 3 couldn't do the same with morphine.

[Xanafalgue]

So if you got sent L4D2 from another country could you play online in Aus?

[Stevorooni]

Only by connecting to laggy overseas servers

[Azzaman]

Possibly not as Valve would be forced to ip block. But I don't think anyone knows this for certain...

Of course this only applies to the PC version.

[lex3191]

when i played L4D on 360 i often played with people from the US and didnt notice any lag. i will just import this from the UK like i did with GTA4

[StorminNorman]

EDIT: As Stormin said though, you need to ignore Ninja Gaiden 2.

Thinking about it some more, I don't think you do. The violence in NG2 is clearly comically over-the-top and not realistic at all, whereas Dark Sector was (from what I saw) a lot more realistic in terms of how this kind of thing was presented in-game.

If L4D2 has a realistic (ie not over-the-top with streams of blood going everywhere like in NG2) presentation of the violence, then it's probable that this would be why it got banned when NG2 didn't.

I'm unconvinced that there's inconsistency here. Dark Sector sets a precedent, and NG2 gets through because it is actually quite ridiculously over-the-top, something that neither Dark Sector nor L4D2 appear to be.

Of course, if Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 gets banned here, then you should entirely ignore this post.

[Tonez]

Soldier of Fortune was banned and it too was over the top. Massive blood spurts etc were all part of the game.

[adam_91vn]

The modern warfare 2 multiplayer video out shows plenty of blood on the screen that will will probably be banned to at this rate :(

[Lazlow]

I don't understand the whole seperation between comical and realistic violence, if the crux of the argument for censorship is the inability of an individual to seperate fantasy from reality.

Not to mention I didn't really see the gore in NG2 as being all that comical in the first place.

[Azzaman]

Soldier of Fortune was banned and it too was over the top. Massive blood spurts etc were all part of the game.

SoF2 ;) SoF1 made it through no problems.

[Xanafalgue]

I can't believe we are even having this discussion :mad:

[Xanafalgue]

Yeah, I don't have any doubt we'll get it released in Australia, we're working on it, but it gives us some nice pr for zombie killin

http://twitter.com/GabeNewell

Replacing the cricket bat with a dead cat will probably do the trick.

[ScToTeE]

I don't understand the whole seperation between comical and realistic violence, if the crux of the argument for censorship is the inability of an individual to seperate fantasy from reality.

Bam! Couldn't agree more. That's where I locate the inconsistency in this whole scenario. On the flipside, it could result in more games (violently comical and realistic) receiving the ban hammer. Then I'd feel stupid... :(

[St@ckboy]

http://twitter.com/GabeNewell

Replacing the cricket bat with a dead cat will probably do the trick.

Ahhhh, thanks Uncle Gabe!!

[Stevorooni]

Hey here's a follow up opinion piece (http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,28348,26090965-5014239,00.html)

[Afrogamer]

*sigh*....the joys of not having an R 18+...

[Meg]

This is one of the reasons Iam ashamed to be Australian. You know the rest of the world laughs at us behind our backs because of stuff like this we are the global IT village idiot.

[Slippery]

It's not behind our backs

[Ad-Rock]

The only reason the OFLC hasn't introduced an R18+ rating for games is because they are clinging to the only "power" that any of them will possess in their meaningless lives. Worse than Hitler.

Seriously do they not realise that the average age for a gamer is well over 18?

EDIT: Just to continue my rant:

They will let us go to war at 18, where we have the chance to dismember people for real. How do they expect us to be any good at it if we haven't practiced it in VR?

Have any members of the classification board turned on TV after 9.30pm and seen the vice and violence free for everyone to watch? (Dexter and Rome immediatley spring to mind).

If adults cannot tell the difference between fantasy and reality, they are going to be in trouble with or without videogames influencing their thoughts.

If they had done their research they would find a zombie apocalypse is just around the corner and everybody better start practicing!!

I know everyone agrees but I had to vent my frustration somewhere...

EDIT 2: I wrote a letter to the OFLC asking why they have failed to put in place an R18+ rating for video games. I don't expect a relpy, but if all gamers sent one they would be absolutely inundated with letters and surely they would cave to the pressure if everyone did it.

I'm pretty sure it was God who said: "...and the geeks shall inherit the Earth."

Someone should really point out to them that one day they will be employed by a gamer who shall exact a terrible vengence on the perpertrators.

[texta]

I'm hoping that the OFLC just got it massively wrong with the "living humans" bit and this whole mess will be resolved by a simple resubmission from EA and a note telling them to RTFM so that they'll know the game features zombies.

Meanwhile, Mark Newton over at Whirlpool had an interesting idea of how a smart State Government might be able to solve the R18+ problem (http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies.cfm?t=1280335&r=20802048#r20802048).I'm not sure that's a smart solution at all. Mark Newton might be a smart guy who knows a lot about computers but his infant grasp of political matters can be pretty embarrassing.

Atkinson is the only person standing in the way of an R18+ rating coming in, but Labor are polling pretty well in SA. I'd suggest the best approach is to really put the pressure on Labor in places like NSW and Tasmania where the next elections are looking very painful.

We're not going to change Atkinson's mind, but we with enough pressure coming from other areas the SA Government might put something through anyway.

The only reason the OFLC hasn't introduced an R18+ rating for games is because they are clinging to the only "power" that any of them will possess in their meaningless lives. Worse than Hitler. This is pretty laughable.

The OFLC have no control at all over what ratings we have in Australia, but have consistently called for the introduction of an R18+ rating for games. Decisions over what classification is available to the OFLC is made by agreement from the state and federal Attorney Generals at COAG.

So your little rant to the OFLC will achieve as much as if you'd written it to Father Christmas, except of course that angry and abusive letters will just put the people offside.

[Azzaman]

I'm not sure that's a smart solution at all. Mark Newton might be a smart guy who knows a lot about computers but his infant grasp of political matters can be pretty embarrassing.

Atkinson is the only person standing in the way of an R18+ rating coming in, but the next SA election is a while away and Labor are polling pretty well there. I'd suggest the best approach is to really put the pressure on Labor in places like NSW and Tasmania where the next elections are looking very painful.

We're not going to change Atkinson's mind, but we with enough pressure coming from other areas the SA Government might put something through anyway.

They may not poll as well as in recent years, they haven't really done a whole lot in their two terms in office. Unfortunately the Libs are in no position to be in power and are having power struggle after power struggle.

The main problem being that Atkinson is actually fairly on the ball with other matters, he's only had a few slips in the past few years and is in a fairly safe seat. As long as this douche is in power we won't see a R18+ rating :(

[texta]

The fact that after two terms they're polling well enough to secure a comfortable majority government if the election was this week suggests that they're not really in a position to worry too much irrespective of where they may have been (poll wise).

As long as he's Attorney General. If there's a reshuffle and he takes on something else there probably won't be a problem.

And tbh, the chances of getting a right wing moron as AG would be much higher with a Liberal government, so it'd be pretty daft to expect them to act on this. IMO if people are serious about this as a voting issue preference Labor second last and the Libs last. Or even better run a ticket under the "R18+ For Video Games party".

[Azzaman]

I think it's a lack of real opposition that's keeping them going tbh.

[Ad-Rock]

So your little rant to the OFLC will achieve as much as if you'd written it to Father Christmas, except of course that angry and abusive letters will just put the people offside.

You really are a smug ****, you know that right?

There was nothing abusive in my letter, nor was it a rant. It was a request for information. I sent it the Classification board and the Classfication Review Board. Which happens to be where you send enquiries for such things. They do not provide an email contact for the Classification Policy Branch of the Attorney-General's Department.

Why don't you come down of your high horse and stop wrecking decent threads with your "know-it-all" attitude?

[texta]

Why don't you stop wrecking threads with your ignorant rants and offensive accusations.

[Ad-Rock]

loltexta nice (read: childish) retort.

In other news: This story has made the ABC news here (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/09/19/2690674.htm?section=justin).

[Lazlow]

You really are a smug ****, you know that right?

There was nothing abusive in my letter, nor was it a rant. It was a request for information. I sent it the Classification board and the Classification Review Board. Which happens to be where you send inquiries for such things. They do not provide an email contact for the Classification Policy Branch of the Attorney-General's Department.

Why don't you come down of your high horse and stop wrecking decent threads with your "know-it-all" attitude?

The main problem, as has been mentioned many times before, is the OFLC has no control over what classification and guidelines are put in place. They merely follow them. So writing them asking why they haven't added an R18+ classification is wasted effort; you are barking up the wrong tree.

And the crazy thing is the OFLC is essentially on our side, as they have suggested a few times now that an R18+ classification be added for video games.

If you wanted to do something more productive contact your local Labor member, put on some heavy pressure and present logical arguments as to why it should be introduced. All you'll get from the OFLC is "we want to, but its out of our control".

[sausage]

What you need to happen is a really popular game that has specific global DRM requirements to be banned in Australia and let the media and popular opinion make life difficult for the polititians.


Hang on.....




My point is that this may be the makings of a watershed moment in Aus gaming history so my suggestion would be to maintain the media momentum and hope some other news story doesn't take the limelight over the next week or so. And be patient and see where this goes.

[REQUIEM]

Thank Michael " GOD COMPLEX " Atkinson. I hate him so much, he is such an arrogant prick IMO.

[Shorty]

I'm not sure that's a smart solution at all. Mark Newton might be a smart guy who knows a lot about computers but his infant grasp of political matters can be pretty embarrassing.

Atkinson is the only person standing in the way of an R18+ rating coming in, but Labor are polling pretty well in SA. I'd suggest the best approach is to really put the pressure on Labor in places like NSW and Tasmania where the next elections are looking very painful.

We're not going to change Atkinson's mind, but we with enough pressure coming from other areas the SA Government might put something through anyway.

Why is that, specifically? Can the Attorney-General's Department override the ability for, say, the NSW State government to pass an Act stating "we will honour any rating from the following approved agencies (eg. ESRB or PEGI) for any video game sold or distributed within the state of NSW"? Or are the Classification Board's ratings truly mandatory for any entertainment media to be sold in any State or Territory in Australia?

[texta]

Why is that, specifically? Can the Attorney-General's Department override the ability for, say, the NSW State government to pass an Act stating "we will honour any rating from the following approved agencies (eg. ESRB or PEGI) for any video game sold or distributed within the state of NSW"? Or are the Classification Board's ratings truly mandatory for any entertainment media to be sold in any State or Territory in Australia?
It's not really a legal issue. Classification is constitutionally a state issue (so it's technically possible), but if every state had different classification laws then the whole system would be beyond unworkable and the end result would almost certainly still be that in most cases we would get the same restrictions on games as we get anyway.

If we wanted to reform the classification process then making it truly a national system to be overseen by the Federal Government alone would be much more sensible.

[Xanafalgue]

Australian version confirmed.

c-db9qgn99o

:rolleyes:

[ScToTeE]

Hahah.

And here's thinking Teletubbies couldn't get any creepier!

[REQUIEM]

Quick send that to michael " god complex " atkinson.

[castr8or]

how does this change anything for steam folks?

Can't you just change your region in the options? I'm pretty sure mine is set to US...

[Lazlow]

I'm sure he'll give a shit.

[REQUIEM]

I'm sure he'll give a shit.

No he wont Laz I agree but he might get the Sarcasm.

[Lazlow]

An effective debating technique.

[TrinityJayOne]

how does this change anything for steam folks?

Can't you just change your region in the options? I'm pretty sure mine is set to US...
IP restrictions.

[Watchers]

how does this change anything for steam folks?

Can't you just change your region in the options? I'm pretty sure mine is set to US...

Good luck finding an Aussie ISP hosting a server for a banned game.

[HiredMan]

Looks like Valve have appealed the decision to refuse classification for Left 4 Dead 2 (http://www.kotaku.com.au/2009/09/valve-appeals-australia-ban-of-left-4-dead-2/).

*strokes beard*

[REQUIEM]

Looks like Valve have appealed the decision to refuse classification for Left 4 Dead 2 (http://www.kotaku.com.au/2009/09/valve-appeals-australia-ban-of-left-4-dead-2/).

*strokes beard*

Fingers crossed....

[Dukotoja]

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a188/WhiteRAZOR/1-10.jpg

that last statement really really makes me mad

[Watchers]

that last statement really really makes me mad

Particularly as it won't work in the case of a multiplayer only title like L4D.

[sausage]

I think the pertinent comment is the one before the last tbh.

Gaming retailers probably counted on this and from this perspective alone Atkinson should be shot with a ball of his own shit; disgraceful, especially in these fragile economic times.

[Antwandemarco]

So whyw ont we be able to play UK copies? We're the servers for the original in australia?

[Azzaman]

Particularly as it won't work in the case of a multiplayer only title like L4D.

Can you set up dedicated servers? If so then it won't make a difference.
Is it coming to 360 as well? That's prime pirating territory there as well.

Still peeved about this, hopefully it passes the re-classification.

[Watchers]

You can play on international servers, but the lag will likely be nuts. That an Steam / Xbox Live will likely check the region, forcing you to create dupe accounts and set up proxies etc. It'll just be too much of a pain in the arse.

And who's going to host a dedicated server? We tried locally hosting in L4D, it just leads to massive lag (unless you have mega fast internets).

[Cobla]

Well on 360 the servers are definitely in the US anyway, so no loss there.

Also I don't think Live will bother filtering out IPs based on region. I mean is there a precedent for doing so? Like, did anyone ever try playing Dark Sector multiplayer on 360? That was a game that never came out on 360 here but I'd be very surprised if the banning extends to the XBL network.

[Antwandemarco]

Well on 360 the servers are definitely in the US anyway, so no loss there.

Also I don't think Live will bother filtering out IPs based on region. I mean is there a precedent for doing so? Like, did anyone ever try playing Dark Sector multiplayer on 360? That was a game that never came out on 360 here but I'd be very surprised if the banning extends to the XBL network.

Agreed

[Lazlow]

Pretty sure Blitz The League worked fine.

[Azzaman]

You can play on international servers, but the lag will likely be nuts. That an Steam / Xbox Live will likely check the region, forcing you to create dupe accounts and set up proxies etc. It'll just be too much of a pain in the arse.

And who's going to host a dedicated server? We tried locally hosting in L4D, it just leads to massive lag (unless you have mega fast internets).

Would LAN be an option?

[Antwandemarco]

I don't think there was ever dedictated aussie servers for L4D on xbox live... Can anyone confirm?

[Thraxas]

I've been playing Zombie Apocalypse recently and I want to know how we're allowed to play that and not L4D2. I can dismember zombies with my chainsaw, I can shoot zombies so their heads splits in 2. My own head can ripped off by flying things. Flying things which just happen to pop out of the bellies of pregnant zombies!!!!!!!!

It even tells me in the stats screen after each level how many limbs I have removed from zombies.

I'm pretty sure I played Blitz: The League online too without any trouble, so I would hope L4D2 will be the same.

[Watchers]

You all seem to be forgetting that playing L4D on console is doing it wrong :p

[RunningMild]

I just heard that the reason why this game was banned was because of extremely violent melee weapons or something.

BUT WAIT JUST A MINUTE! Anyone who ever read N64 Gamer's review of Carmageddon 64 will remember that there was a massive loophole in video game classification in Australia- as long as the bad guys are zombies, you can do whatever you want to them. Apparently, you could have a game where you make balloon animals out of their intestines and it would be ok.

And now a game is getting banned for violence being carried out on zombies. What a ****ing joke. These power-mad OFLC guys are playing by their own rules now!

Also, I've said this before but I'll say it again- any country that okays Ninja Gaiden 2 has no right to ever ban a game on the grounds of violence, gore, or dismemberments ever again.

[Shorty]

Also, I've said this before but I'll say it again- any country that okays Ninja Gaiden 2 has no right to ever ban a game on the grounds of violence, gore, or dismemberments ever again.

People have called the Classification Board many things, but "consistent" is not one of them.

[HiredMan]

BUT WAIT JUST A MINUTE! Anyone who ever read N64 Gamer's review of Carmageddon 64 will remember that there was a massive loophole in video game classification in Australia- as long as the bad guys are zombies, you can do whatever you want to them. Apparently, you could have a game where you make balloon animals out of their intestines and it would be ok.

Ah but you see the chaps at the OFLC have cleverly circumvented the "zombie rule" by pointing out that the infected aren't zombies! Apparently, they're "humans afflicted by a disease that makes them behave violently"!

[REQUIEM]

Ah but you see the chaps at the OFLC have cleverly circumvented the "zombie rule" by pointing out that the infected aren't zombies! Apparently, they're "humans afflicted by a disease that makes them behave violently"!

yeah A panadol and a day or 2 in bed rectifys the rotting flesh and hunger for brains.


OFLC = Outdated Flawed Laughable Contradictions

[RunningMild]

Ah but you see the chaps at the OFLC have cleverly circumvented the "zombie rule" by pointing out that the infected aren't zombies! Apparently, they're "humans afflicted by a disease that makes them behave violently"!

I bet if you typed that into Scribblenauts, a zombie would pop up. ;)

[Shorty]

In other news, Atkinson refuses to support 18+ rating for games because of the interactive nature of video games (http://www.joystiq.com/2009/09/30/australian-attorney-general-refuses-to-support-18-game-rating/). Atkinson also expresses concern for "talking" pictures, electricity, those kids on his lawn and this newfound fad called "Tweetering".

[REQUIEM]

In other news, Atkinson refuses to support 18+ rating for games because of the interactive nature of video games (http://www.joystiq.com/2009/09/30/australian-attorney-general-refuses-to-support-18-game-rating/). Atkinson also expresses concern for "talking" pictures, electricity, those kids on his lawn and this newfound fad called "Tweetering".

Due to his mistakes in parliment over the past 2 weeks his credability is wavering. Its only a matter of time before his reign of BS comes to an end..

[ScToTeE]

OFLC = Outdated Flawed Laughable Contradictions

Brilliant. :D

This whole issue is utterly ridiculous. :mad:

[StorminNorman]

because of the interactive nature of video games (http://www.joystiq.com/2009/09/30/australian-attorney-general-refuses-to-support-18-game-rating/)

Gods there is so much fail in the comments of that article. I don't know what irks me more, the lack of an R18 classification, or ill-informed Americans making ridiculous statements about how their country is better because one man isn't allowed to dictate what people see or whatever.

Also, this has been bugging me for a while now, so I'm going to correct everyone in this thread:

There is no such thing as the OFLC. The OFLC was disbanded in 2007.

Classification in Australia is done by the Classification Board (CB), which is overseen by the Federal Attorney-General's Office. This is the board you deal with when making a classification application.

There's also the Classification Review Board (CRB), which reviews existing classification applications in the event that there's an appeal of a classification decision. This is the mob that will deal with Left 4 Dead 2's rating when EA Australia appeal the decision. The CRB is also a part of the Attorney-General's Office, however it exists independently of the CB (though, obviously, it forms part of the same apparatus).

So there you go. Now please, stop saying OFLC.

[Lazlow]

Talk about splitting hairs.

Whether under the OFLC or under the Attorney General's department, the CB and CRB have essentially been the same thing. If the government still recognises the title "OFLC" to keep the URL alive, and the same URL printed on classification material (ie LOOK ON THOSE COLOURFUL STICKERS MATE), then I don't see any problem in referring to the OFLC.

So please, stop derailing the thread with such inane nitpicking.

[Shorty]

It gets in the way of the inane nitpicking from our elected officials.

[StorminNorman]

Talk about splitting hairs.

As someone who's spent the better part of the year dealing with them, I can tell you that it's not splitting hairs at all.

Whether under the OFLC or under the Attorney General's department, the CB and CRB have essentially been the same thing.

They really aren't. The CB is much easier to deal with than the OFLC ever was.

If the government still recognises the title "OFLC" to keep the URL alive, and the same URL printed on classification material

You'll occasionally see the classification.gov.au URL instead. It's just a case of how recent the template version that whoever's releasing a title has.

oflc.gov.au redirects to classification.gov.au anyway.

then I don't see any problem in referring to the OFLC.
Aside from the fact that they don't exist, and that it's completely incorrect to do so?

So please, stop derailing the thread with such inane nitpicking.

It's not inane at all. Usually when you're angry at something, it's a good idea to get the name of that thing right. It's actually a pretty major mistake that a lot of people are making, which suggests to me that they don't fully understand how censorship in this country even works.

[Stevorooni]

Great interview with Margaret Pomeranz (http://byteside.com/blog/2009/10/01/margaret-pomeranz-on-r18/) and her view on the whole R18+ thing.

Pretty much shows how illogical Atkinson's view is when someone who has no specific knowledge on the video game industry but plenty on media in general can look at the situation and come to the same conclusions the rest of us have.

[AranchineD]

Aside from the fact that they don't exist, and that it's completely incorrect to do so?

It's shorter to type and everyone know what you're talking about anyway, does it matter?

It's not inane at all. Usually when you're angry at something, it's a good idea to get the name of that thing right. It's actually a pretty major mistake that a lot of people are making, which suggests to me that they don't fully understand how censorship in this country even works.

Well considering we shouldn't be getting angry at that place that does classify movies and stuff at all, it's not really their problem, then who cares what we call it?

[StorminNorman]

CB is shorter to type than OFLC, FWIW.

[AranchineD]

Except I've never heard anyone refer to it as the CB, the first instance being you on the last page, so chances are people would generally not know what the hell you're talking about.

[Fenrir]

One could, however, use the term "Classification Board" with the initials "CB" bound by parentheses trailing, in the first instance of referring to the Classification Board (CB), such that the first reference to the CB appears "Classification Board (CB)", and refer to the CB in all subsequent instances with the initials "CB", such that all subsequent references to the CB read "CB".

Whether there is a net character saving with this convention in comparison to using the term "OFLC" then depends on the number of instances in which the CB is referred to. The net character saving (measured in characters*) may be determined by the function:

http://latex.codecogs.com/gif.latex?f(n)=%202n%20-%2023,%20n%20\in%20\mathbb{N}

Where n is the total amount of times the CB is referred to.

For example, in this post, the CB is referred to by name a total of 13 times, hence the net character saving of referring to the CB with this convention as opposed to referring to the CB as "OFLC" is:

http://latex.codecogs.com/gif.latex?f(13)%20=%202(13)%20-%2023%20=%2026%20-%2023%20=%203

Further, it is possible to determine the minimum amount of times the CB must be referred to under this convention before there is a positive net character saving, by setting f(n) = 0 and solving for n:

http://latex.codecogs.com/gif.latex?2n%20-%2023%20=%200

http://latex.codecogs.com/gif.latex?2n%20=%2023

http://latex.codecogs.com/gif.latex?n%20=%2011.5

Therefore, the CB must be referred to under this convention at least 12 times before this convention becomes character-efficient.

In conclusion, it is only character-efficient and worthwhile to refer to the CB by this convention as opposed to by the term "OFLC" in texts of verbose and long-winded nature, written by nitpicking writers - such as this one. In all other cases, "OFLC" is the more effective term by which to refer to the CB, despite being technically incorrect.

Footnotes:
*The "character" unit of measurement is inherently ambiguous, as conventions in digital character encoding vary in their representation of characters, and further, the properties of print fonts are subject to variation. Please only use this measurement as a rough guide.
Yes, I am taking the piss.

[Lex]

Need a tissue there, raptoid?

[Fenrir]

Several.

[Starscream]

I've just watched some vids of L4D2. Must get.

Going to wait a couple of months after it's released (since there will be a mad rush of PAL imports from the UK) and then get one.

[Lazlow]

They really aren't. The CB is much easier to deal with than the OFLC ever was.

The OFLC was made up of the CB and CRB. So I really don't know what you are trying to say here... you now get direct access to the CB, now that both departments were shifted to the Attorney General's portfolio?

[Xanafalgue]

Soooo is this happening or do we have to import?

[Shorty]

We won't really know until word gets back from the CRB on whether L4D2 gets a rating and if any alterations have to be made. I'm hoping that it gets passed uncut like F.E.A.R. 2.

[AranchineD]

Well if I take what I learned from that R18+ discussion on Byteside correctly, Valve could theoretically submit exactly the same game but just provide in greater detail the context of all the violence and such, and then have it get through.

[Stevorooni]

Valve appealing on original version but have edited Australian Version as a backup plan (http://kotaku.com/5375989/valve-has-edited-version-of-left-4-dead-2-for-possible-release)

I kind of wish that developers didn't alter their game for our shitty rating system. It's a broken system and the only way to get people to make some noise and bring attention to it is to stop us from getting the games. Instead people just kind of accept it.

[Watchers]

Valve appealing on original version but have edited Australian Version as a backup plan (http://kotaku.com/5375989/valve-has-edited-version-of-left-4-dead-2-for-possible-release)

I kind of wish that developers didn't alter their game for our shitty rating system. It's a broken system and the only way to get people to make some noise and bring attention to it is to stop us from getting the games. Instead people just kind of accept it.

I'd rather play a censored version of L4D2 than no version of L4D2 though. If it was the next GTA though... let that be the game we miss out on to bring this further into the light :p

Good on Valve for going to the effort for us.

[Stevorooni]

I'd rather play a censored version of L4D2 than no version of L4D2 though.

Why don't you just MARRY Atkinson then!

[Watchers]

He'd probably be against it.

[Fenrir]

I'd rather play a censored version of L4D2 than no version of L4D2 though. If it was the next GTA though... let that be the game we miss out on to bring this further into the light :p
Problem is, if it's the next version of GTA that brings the issue to the fore, there'll be a ****ton more detractors because it's essentially childish drivel with unartistic violence/sex/mature themes. L4D2 may not be refined erudite art, either, but Valve are renowned for high-quality refined mature games, and the company isn't a media punching bag.

[Azzaman]

He'd probably be against it.

well, in public

[Blob]

I've just watched some vids of L4D2. Must get.

Going to wait a couple of months after it's released (since there will be a mad rush of PAL imports from the UK) and then get one.

I have the NTSC - J Version of Left 4 Dead GOTY and it works fine on my 360. Highly possible that Left 4 Dead 2 will be un - region locked. When does it come out in the US?

[Watchers]

Problem is, if it's the next version of GTA that brings the issue to the fore, there'll be a ****ton more detractors because it's essentially childish drivel with unartistic violence/sex/mature themes. L4D2 may not be refined erudite art, either, but Valve are renowned for high-quality refined mature games, and the company isn't a media punching bag.

I meant I'd just prefer it if it was a game I didn't give a shit about :p

[Shorty]

There's also usually "sex" involved with GTA, which always seems to bring the extra large serving of detractors.

[Starscream]

I have the NTSC - J Version of Left 4 Dead GOTY and it works fine on my 360. Highly possible that Left 4 Dead 2 will be un - region locked. When does it come out in the US?
That's awesome. Are the character voices in Japanese?

The reason is why I would be waiting is because there would be a massive influx of importing L4D2 into Australia just a few weeks after release date. Customs may pick up on it, seize, etc, etc.

Wait a month or two and Customs may have moved on to the next new problem.

[Blob]

That's awesome. Are the character voices in Japanese?


Nope seems pretty much the same and in fact its actually seems to be the AU release as it has the OFLC stickers on it. Guess they couldnt be bothered making a pal version. Although im struggling to see what extra content makes releasing a GOTY edition even worthwhile.

[Cian]

Wait a month or two and Customs may have moved on to the next new problem.

Why is everyone so worried about customs? Unless you're importing a box full of copies to a single address then they won't be suspicious. All they can see when they scan it is a DVD case. I've imported plenty of banned games and they've never been opened. It's legal to own L4D2....it's illegal to sell/distribute it. Customs have more important things to worry about, like drugs, which can kill people.

[Cobla]

Agreed. The only time I've ever had something seized by customs it was stuff a friend sent me (unsolicited) from Amsterdam. Even then all they did was write me a note to say "you can't have that, you goose" and then sealed up the package and sent it on to me.

Games and movies they don't seem to care about though, so long as they aren't counterfeit.

[Hyperblau]

So its Unbanned

http://kotaku.com/5376731/looks-like-left-4-dead-2-is-coming-to-australia

No word which version it is, I'm guessing its the censored version for the time being whilst they wait for the appeal to go through.

[Cian]

So its Unbanned

http://kotaku.com/5376731/looks-like-left-4-dead-2-is-coming-to-australia

No word which version it is, I'm guessing its the censored version for the time being whilst they wait for the appeal to go through.

Considering how quickly this has happened, then it has to be the censored version.

Time to get those imports pre-ordered.

[Azzaman]

Considering how quickly this has happened, then it has to be the censored version.

Time to get those imports pre-ordered.

360 I assume? Did anyone buy L4D on PC at retail? How was it handled, was it basically a cdkey and directions to steam or did it have a content disc?

I'm wondering if we import if steam will just patch our copies to the edited versions anyway...

[Cian]

360 I assume? Did anyone buy L4D on PC at retail? How was it handled, was it basically a cdkey and directions to steam or did it have a content disc?

I'm wondering if we import if steam will just patch our copies to the edited versions anyway...

I have no idea how this will work through Steam...

Hopefully we'll get an official statement from Valve soon.

[Watchers]

360 I assume? Did anyone buy L4D on PC at retail? How was it handled, was it basically a cdkey and directions to steam or did it have a content disc?

I'm wondering if we import if steam will just patch our copies to the edited versions anyway...

I have an imported version I bought from CDWow - disc and CD key, which is then tied to your steam account.

I am interested in how this will work, if it is indeed censored. A check on every local server to see if it's an unmodded version or what? Will international versions still work over Steam? WHO KNOWS.

Anyway, it could very likely be that the appeal went through, considering the 'back up plan' was only announced a couple of days ago and it would basically be the same process either way.

[Cobla]

I dunno guys, I reckon this is the un-censored version that's got through on appeal. The ruling on the edited version wasn't due until October 22.

Edit: My bad, it was the original versions appeal that was slated for Oct 22. :(

[Natrak]

Either way I'm glad that it's hitting Australian shelves to be honest. The game will still be a hoot.

[Stevorooni]

Maybe they'll release the censored version, then if the original one gets through on appeal they'll patch everyone's copy

[Jickle]

Differences in the censored version. (http://au.gamespot.com/news/6232135.html?tag=latestheadlines;title;1&skipmc=1)

'While EA and Valve have been quiet about exactly what content had been changed in the "modified version" of Left 4 Dead 2, Australia's Classification Board hasn't been as silent. The Board has provided GameSpot AU with a copy of today's Left 4 Dead 2 ruling, which states that the modified version of the game recently resubmitted "no longer contains depictions of decapitations, dismemberment, wound detail, or piles of bodies lying about the environment".'

Hmmm, that's no good.

[Shorty]

Then let's hope the original version wins the appeals process. Remember that this edited version is their backup plan in case the original fails.

[Cian]

Differences in the censored version. (http://au.gamespot.com/news/6232135.html?tag=latestheadlines;title;1&skipmc=1)

'While EA and Valve have been quiet about exactly what content had been changed in the "modified version" of Left 4 Dead 2, Australia's Classification Board hasn't been as silent. The Board has provided GameSpot AU with a copy of today's Left 4 Dead 2 ruling, which states that the modified version of the game recently resubmitted "no longer contains depictions of decapitations, dismemberment, wound detail, or piles of bodies lying about the environment".'

Hmmm, that's no good.

I'll order it from the UK tonight. **** the man.

[Stevorooni]

"no longer contains depictions of decapitations, dismemberment, wound detail, or piles of bodies lying about the environment"


Zombie: Lemonade?

Player: Please.

Zombie: I made it just for you.

Player: You are my best friend.

Zombie: Mm, this really hits the spot.

Player: Doesn't it, though. You make really good lemonade

Zombie: Oh, thank you

[Watchers]

Super weak.

Though provided it's only cosmetic changes (which it would kinda have to be - otherwise people with different versions/regions wouldn't be able to play against each other), it shouldn't take too long for a mod to release that will patch all that back in.

That or I guess it means we'll have to wait and see if people can play the imported version on Aussie servers with no hassles.

[Fenrir]

Though provided it's only cosmetic changes (which it would kinda have to be - otherwise people with different versions/regions wouldn't be able to play against each other), it shouldn't take too long for a mod to release that will patch all that back in.
Can anyone else smell hot coffee?

[Watchers]

Can anyone else smell hot coffee?

I meant actually putting new code in (or copy-pasting from other versions, or whatever), rather than just unlocking content. Surely Valve wouldn't be stupid enough to actually leave the content in the version in the wake of that incident.

[Fenrir]

I was under the impression you meant the mod community would release a mod to bring back the intended gore, which - unless the content was already lying dormant in the game - wouldn't really be possible. Valve wouldn't be able to do it unless the original content passed the CB.

[dinopoke]

http://www.ausgamers.com/features/read/2795041

The question was raised as to what the situation would be if the appeal were eventually successful after the modified version had been released to which Gabe responded PC owners of the game would simply get a free update which would convert the game back to its original form, but couldn't specify how it would work for the console version because of all the red-tape and lengthy approval processes involved with each release and update console games go through.

[Fenrir]

Well, sure, didn't I say that in the last sentence of my last post?

[dinopoke]

Just putting up a confirmation!

[REQUIEM]

I meant actually putting new code in (or copy-pasting from other versions, or whatever), rather than just unlocking content. Surely Valve wouldn't be stupid enough to actually leave the content in the version in the wake of that incident.

what like in san andreas? Only a few people unlocked it. The internet ruined it for most.

[Shorty]

what like in san andreas? Only a few people unlocked it. The internet ruined it for most.

It only took one guy to blow it wide open. I know things can get hectic in pre-release crunch time but leaving an entire sex minigame in there's pretty negligent.

[ian]

just pirate the damn game..

i found this article saying how messed up the oflc is. it makes a lot of valid points, but is extremly long..

it was written in canada i believe, so the opinions voiced are not biased

http://videogameinvective.wordpress.com/2009/10/11/australia-a-land-of-no-consequence/

good read.. SPREAD THE WORD.

[Silverwolf]

it was written in canada i believe, so the opinions voiced are not as biased


Fixed ;o

[Shorty]

I could've done without the L4D2 Boycott editorial, though. He's also incorrect about ODST and GTA carrying the same rating (they don't).

[Watchers]

just pirate the damn game..


Yeah! Let's punish Valve for something completely out of their hands! Pathetic.

In other news, I have already pre-ordered the game on Steam for the bargain price of $38. How could I refuse?

[Sir_Psycho]

Because the zombie corpses are going to dissapear on death.

[JubeiSaotome]

Use a US proxy on the valve store. Profit.

[Shorty]

Because the zombie corpses are going to dissapear on death.

Hence the discount price. :p

[Xanafalgue]

Because the zombie corpses are going to dissapear on death.

Tragic. I'm getting it from overseas :mad:

[Shorty]

I thought they were still waiting on the CRB's decision regarding the original version. If they pass that, won't they just patch in the extra blood and guts? They could even have them as unlockable content on the disc if they haven't yet gone gold.

[Watchers]

I thought they were still waiting on the CRB's decision regarding the original version. If they pass that, won't they just patch in the extra blood and guts?

Supposedly. But I don't see them passing it when they've already passed a much more kiddie friendly version.

[Shorty]

Supposedly. But I don't see them passing it when they've already passed a much more kiddie friendly version.

AFAIK, it's a different group of people. If they can convince them it's within the MA classification then boom, there's your rating.

[Ashmaran]

We'll know it a week's time, fingers crossed.

I split a 4 pack with some friends, less than $40 each for L4D2 is pretty sweet.

[Watchers]

AFAIK, it's a different group of people. If they can convince them it's within the MA classification then boom, there's your rating.

Is it? I guess it will depend on the mindset of those people then. I still don't think it will happen because they could just be thinking 'Well, there's already this censored kid-friendly version that they're prepared to sell here that is much better than this one, so why should we even consider this gorier version?'

[Shorty]

It depends on the criteria they're allowed to use when it comes to reviewing a classification for a game. I wouldn't automatically assume that they'll take the edited version into account when it comes to reviewing the original decision.

[Xanafalgue]

If any 360 users want to run through some games of L4D before L4D2 comes out let me know, I'm so accustomed to Battlefield controls now that I'm having a hard time playing it.

[StorminNorman]

Is it?

Yes. The Classification Review Board is a different group of people to the Classification Board. The reasoning is basically so that the same people that rated a game the first time don't have any say if that rating is appealed.

[Watchers]

RC'd. (http://www.classification.gov.au/www/cob/rwpattach.nsf/VAP/(3273BD3F76A7A5DEDAE36942A54D7D90)~Mediarelease-Left4Dead2-22October2009.pdf/$file/Mediarelease-Left4Dead2-22October2009.pdf)

Painfully lame. Apparently, the main reason was that the zombies were too close to regular humans. Makes sense. >_>

[Shorty]

Again? Goddamnit. :mad:

[Fenrir]

Probably fair enough. I don't think it should be refused classification, but I don't think anything deemed stronger than the MA15+ category allows should be shoehorned into MA15+.

In short, don't shoot the messenger. Shoot Atkinson.

(figuratively speaking, of course - I would hate for the Minister to take my comments the wrong way)

[Thraxas]

Oh well.... Import it is then...

[Xanafalgue]

For ****s sake.

[Fenrir]

On a side-note, we should remember the WoW exemption (http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/biztech/no-classification-online-games-legal-minefield/2009/02/03/1233423203018.html) - is this loophole relevant in this case, or could it be made to be?

[Shorty]

I doubt that would work. L4D2 is basically a standalone game with online capabilities, whereas WoW requires an Internet connection to play. And considering the game's less than a month from release date, I don't think Valve or EA have the time or the patience to go up against the CB or the CRB yet again. I think they'll end up having to cut their losses, put out the "edited" version and take the hit in local sales from people importing or not buying the game altogether.

[Stevorooni]

Everything that can be said about this moronic predicament has been said.

An R Rating is inevitible, we just have to wait until some ignorant dinosaurs no longer have a say in how the country is run.

I'm not buying a gimped game.

[Almighty Beanchild]

Everything that can be said about this moronic predicament has been said.

An R Rating is inevitible, we just have to wait until some ignorant dinosaurs no longer have a say in how the country is run.

I'm not buying a gimped game.

I am. **** that, I'm all for artistic license and I hate censorship, but I don't believe the value of a game like L4D2 is it's more confronting graphical effects. I don't care about that. I'm not missing out on that awesome core gameplay experience :P

[Slippery]

Plus on PC it'll probably just get modded anyway.

I hope.

[aubergine]

I can't believe their reasoning for this (http://kotaku.com/5387461/australian-ratings-board-refuses-left-4-dead-2-appeal) while I'm sitting here playing Fallout 3.

[Shorty]

You think it'd be easy to tell the "walking, talking, shooting" humans from the "moaning, groaning, trying to kill you" zombies. Maybe the CRB should've sat down with a couple of Romero films to get schooled on zombie-ology before deciding the appeal.

I am. **** that, I'm all for artistic license and I hate censorship, but I don't believe the value of a game like L4D2 is it's more confronting graphical effects. I don't care about that. I'm not missing out on that awesome core gameplay experience :P

I can see where you're coming from, but that doesn't help shake the feeling that I'm still missing out on something for no good reason. Considering we're the only Western country to have demanded these changes, it feels embarassingly arbitrary.

Zombie culture is supposed to be gory and violent. It's part of its aesthetic, part of its ethos. Trying to sanitise it is somewhat missing the point. To quote Yahtzee, "asking for a horror game to tone itself down for the kids is like sending an order of spaghetti back to the kitchen and asking that it be made less Italian".

[Lazlow]

I aint eatin' no dago food!

[sausage]

*yawn*...... wakes up in New Zealand. Ahhhh.

[Clockw0rk]

I'm going to be incredibly pissed off if we get the same deal as GTA IV - ending up with the edited version in NZ because of your retarded-ass backwards Government.

[Stevorooni]

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/994/l4dead2aus.jpg

[Xanafalgue]

*yawn*...... wakes up in New Zealand. Ahhhh.

Oh God, YOU'RE STILL IN A NIGHTMARE! WAKE UP! WAKE UP! *shakes*

Edit: lol@Stevo's pic, perhaps Valve should have submitted that Teletubbies mod >_>

[Cobla]

Just ordered my copy from the UK. ~$80 incl. shipping :)

[Stevorooni]

I can see where you're coming from, but that doesn't help shake the feeling that I'm still missing out on something for no good reason. Considering we're the only Western country to have demanded these changes, it feels embarassingly arbitrary.

Zombie culture is supposed to be gory and violent. It's part of its aesthetic, part of its ethos. Trying to sanitise it is somewhat missing the point. To quote Yahtzee, "asking for a horror game to tone itself down for the kids is like sending an order of spaghetti back to the kitchen and asking that it be made less Italian".

The main thing about the censored version that bothers me is the fact that the bodies fade away, I watched a video of the censored German version of Left 4 Dead and it was really irritating just watching them disappear instantly, it made it seem like... a videogame! It's totally unnecessary, this isn't 1980's Double Dragon where dead enemies had to fade away because the hardware couldn't handle more than 4 sprites on screen at once.

Even the RE4 route where after a period of time dead bodies melt into a puddle of goo would be a better way to go, at least that's kind of in context with zombie lore. I don't want to see dead bodies just fade away like they were never there, these zombies aren't Jedi Knights!

I want to be absorbed into the videogame's world, I want to be frightened by the gang of zombies chasing me down, I wanna scream "shiiiiiiiiiiiit!" as I try to get away, I don't want to be reminded that it's all just a game by a lack of realism brought on by archaic laws.

[Spudzilla]

I hate this country.

Alright, it's out there. Come and get me you Southern Cross tattooed bogans.

[igotnewsuper8systemWRONG!]

Australia should be the country where ratings don't even exist, I was under the impression that we are known for our walk it off/it's no big deal mentality? This whole ratings thing is very un-Australian.

[Shorty]

I'm going to be incredibly pissed off if we get the same deal as GTA IV - ending up with the edited version in NZ because of your retarded-ass backwards Government.

Then some enterprising young lad will pay the NZ classification board to review the unedited version and it'll get passed.

[JubeiSaotome]

Am I the only one that's glad we at least get the game in some form?

[Slippery]

We were always going to get it, just watered down, not a chance Valve would just not bother with Australia since L4D sold pretty well here(I vaguely remember).

[Cobla]

Am I the only one that's glad we at least get the game in some form?Yeah I am cos it means there should be at least a few local players.