Beautiful people often fail to develop character. Discuss.

[Sytadel]

The theory goes something like this (http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/155928/?tag=Abraham+Lincoln) (beware, swears included).

ITT the forum community (mostly ugly) comments on their experiences growing up ugly and on their experiences dealing with the other (attractive) side. Above all else we try to coherently critique the theory that ugly people have more character than attractive people. In the process we try to appear as bi-partisan as possible because we don't like people to know we're bitter.

I personally feel the theory is solid. There's no doubt that good looking people are revered for their looks alone, which means they develop the belief that they are special without having to actually contribute meaningfully to the world or their own lives. Unattractive people, on the other hand, must earn the respect of their peers. The uglier you are, the more ground you have to cover. Once you reach this realisation, the good news is that there is a smorgusboard of alternative ways to become revered in society; they can become successful as a businessman (http://weblogs.newsday.com/entertainment/tv/blog/donald_trump_narrowweb__300x399,0.jpg), thinker (http://www.hallofheretics.net/graphics/artNietzche.jpg), humanitarian (http://andrewlawlor.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/philosophy_ghandi_4.jpg), or politician (http://moadoph.gov.au/learning/national-history-challenge/2007/images/NHC/speeches/menzies_lg.jpg).

I do, however, have some problems and concerns with the theory. Hopefully these will be good counterpoints to discussion.

The theory may be more pronounced in women than men. An attractive man cannot bank on being successful, but an attractive woman can reasonably assume that - no matter what she does in life - she will find some asshole who'll provide for her.
Often, successful unattractive men marry attractive women, blurring important lines between "us" and "them".
Occasionally, a fortunate ugly person will show the UDS phenotype (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ugly+duckling+syndrome). These people will develop character in early life, which will persist well after they have lost their ugliness. UDS girls are awesome. Date them.
Attractive people are often borne of wealthy overachievers (due largely to the first point), and these people are often place gross importance on "character" (social success) and they have looks. As such, a good looking person may appear to superficially have character - but this can be wholly attributed to an advantaged upbringing and pro-social character pressures.
While some unattractive people are empowered to work hard and succeed, many are lazy and ultimately fail to develop character due to a long history of being treated as not being special. These people persistently staff retail until their mid-20s, cling to socially avoidant hobbies, and hang out in cliques of underachievers.

Discuss. Provide experiences.

[AranchineD]

While some unattractive people are empowered to work hard and succeed, many are lazy and ultimately fail to develop character due to a long history of being treated as not being special. These people persistently staff retail until their mid-20s, cling to socially avoidant hobbies, and hang out in cliques of underachievers.

Well you just described me perfectly then. >_> (Except I don't even work!)


I actually enjoy the challenge though, having to develop other parts to your personality as a sort of compensating for not being the most good looking person in the world. Really, for the last few years, I've enjoyed seeing how far I can go just purposely doing no favours for my own physical appearance, going entirely on what I say and think, and how I act.

On that note, I've found that if you look a 'certain' way, people tend to underestimate you, which actually makes it far easier to either take advantage of said people by 'playing the part' to a degree, or to just kick out a surprise every now and then.


And if you have no idea what the hell the point in all that was, you better believe I don't know what it is either. But basically, I agree your theory is pretty much on the money. Perhaps it's not applicable to everything, like with the other points you listed, but for the most part it hits the mark. Also I have to say, I think I'm not really bitter about being down the 'Hot' scale, because like I said above, it can provide opportunity to get ahead in life anyway if you look for ways to take advantage of it.

[Sytadel]

It's not my theory, it's south park's. I like to think I can turn it in to something psychologically justifiable though >_>

/whiteboardtime

[Xanafalgue]

Lies.

[AranchineD]

It's not my theory, it's south park's. I like to think I can turn it in to something psychologically justifiable though >_>

/whiteboardtime

Well then I better be a reference on your submission of your worked out theory to wherever it is that you submit your theories to!

[Shorty]

I believe Cracked similar ground at #3 on this list (http://www.cracked.com/article_17061_5-things-you-think-will-make-you-happy-but-wont.html).

[dimorphic]

My mum says I'm pretty.

[TAT]

Occasionally, a fortunate ugly person will show the UDS phenotype (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ugly+duckling+syndrome). These people will develop character in early life, which will persist well after they have lost their ugliness. UDS girls are awesome. Date them.


This doesn't just apply to looks, but weight as well.

[bowie]

Alot of ugly people fail to develop character. They are just more genuine and sincere.

[sausage]

Well duh put this one in the O for Obvious scientific studies along with "Sleep is good for the body" and "Breathing is essential to survive".

[incompatible with life]

It really depends on how we might define character. I imagine though if you had a very large randomised sample of people split into 'beautiful' and 'ugly' there probably wouldn't be too much of a difference in amount of 'character'.

My suspicion is that socioeconomic status possibly has more a role to play (granted, probably in a bell curve). Certainly it doesn't override everything else, but I suspect it's possibly the most influential factor than just beauty.

an attractive woman can reasonably assume that - no matter what she does in life - she will find some asshole who'll provide for her.
Perhaps maybe in say the 1950's. Otherwise it's really only a short term advantage considering that marriage isn't quite forever nowadays (particularly if looks were the main reason for getting married) but beauty will always have a best before date.

[Lazlow]

Watching the Today show this morning, there was apparently some survey that reported 44% of men would leave their partner if she became overweight.

Somewhat related post from work >_>

[Almighty Beanchild]

This doesn't just apply to looks, but weight as well.

For a lot of people (probably most people) excess weight equates to not having looks, even though girls can be quite cute if they're a little chubby, imo. :P

[texta]

I'm not really convinced by this theory. Within my own circle of friends I know some very attractive people who also are smart and have great personality and I know some butt ugly people who are exactly as ugly on the inside.

In general terms I haven't noticed a pattern either way and I'm inclined to day that a) you can't judge a book by its cover and b) people who think that looks and character are inversely proportional are just trying to feel better about their own unattractiveness.

[sausage]

Oh I dunno, I'm very happy with my decidedly average looks. But I do accept what you say about ugly people being ugly inside as well; lord knows I've meet my fair share of them. I think Texta you are qualifying your experience within the parameters of the original premise and that's where your disagreement comes from.

[Ad-Rock]

It's a hard thing to say that someone has more character than someone else - I mean how do you quantify such a thing? Uglies might tend to be more interesting characters (which would explain why I am so boring ;) ), while "beautiful" people might be more self absorbed and thus seem more boring.

My theory is that uglies tend to be "larger" personalities to compensate for their lack of good looks. In other words, beautiful people and unfortunate people express their personalities differently, sometimes.

[Hotaru_oz]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

I think that's how it goes, personally I bullied alot by the other girls at school because I was ugly according to them. What really me was that some of these girls weren't to crash hot either. Ugly people can have ugly personalities and vice versa, everyone is individually different.

[bowie]

How many people with lots of confidence have "character".

[Newton]

I'm not really convinced by this theory. Within my own circle of friends I know some very attractive people who also are smart and have great personality and I know some butt ugly people who are exactly as ugly on the inside.

In general terms I haven't noticed a pattern either way and I'm inclined to day that a) you can't judge a book by its cover and b) people who think that looks and character are inversely priportional are just trying to feel better about their own unattractiveness.Couldn't agree with this more. Every bit of it.

(Although particularly b. It's a cop-out for ugly people really and gives them something to hang on to. Especially the bitter ones.)

[Beinkasaurus Rex]

Not entirely true Syt, I'm beautiful and have an amazing personality =D
n_______N I love you all!

On a serious note, I'm more inclined to agree with Newton/Texta, ALTHOUGH I do know someone who falls into the UDS bracket quite well =D

[AranchineD]

Stop lying Beinke, you are a hollow, shallow boy with beautiful lips, you prove Syt's theory!

[Beinkasaurus Rex]

=] much loveeeeeeeee, araaaaaaan! =OOOOO

[Theiffy]

I can see that this theory can work with some people, but doesn't always apply.

I never really got ridiculed for my looks THAT much, in fact i think i've been praised more for looks rather than be teased for them. I'd say personally i was ridiculed for being too 'quiet' or for liking 'nerdy' things (art was the biggest one) and because i didn't like to smoke or go clubbing or whatever the other kids used to do.

[Stevorooni]

I'm as homely as a mule's butt and have the charisma of a dead animal

[Dr Skinnybones]

stop flirting, stevo!

I think it might have more to do with socio-economic influences. You watch shows about the OC, Lasagne Beach and some non-descript Hills, and a lot of that has to do with consumer image methinks. Attractiveness is tied by one's capacity to dress well, be fake tanned etc in the name of getting ahead of others socially. That breeds inner-ugliness.
A lot of romantic comedies and 80s teen movies bank on the character types of hot uppertown snobby girl vs the subtle attractiveness and good manner of the girl next door.

[Shorty]

A lot of romantic comedies and 80s teen movies bank on the character types of hot uppertown snobby girl vs the subtle attractiveness and good manner of the girl next door.

Sometimes it's not that subtle (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HollywoodHomely).

[TAT]

For a lot of people (probably most people) excess weight equates to not having looks, even though girls can be quite cute if they're a little chubby, imo. :P
Pep for you


hang on

[Big Kev]

While some unattractive people are empowered to work hard and succeed, many are lazy and ultimately fail to develop character due to a long history of being treated as not being special. These people persistently staff retail until their mid-20s, cling to socially avoidant hobbies, and hang out in cliques of underachievers.
[/LIST]
Discuss. Provide experiences.

Hyper.

[Sytadel]

Man, I try to make a decent pop-psychology thread and I get hypothetical statements, "where's your data"?, and "what is the nature of character?". I mean, I could launch in to a full RFT/Evolution driven approach to sexual selection...

I'm not really convinced by this theory. Within my own circle of friends I know some very attractive people who also are smart and have great personality and I know some butt ugly people who are exactly as ugly on the inside.

Are they UDS or rich?

Also I'd consider myself decent so I don't feel this is all that bitter >_>.

[texta]

Are they UDS or rich?

Also I'd consider myself decent so I don't feel this is all that bitter >_>.Some of them might be, but I haven't really put a lot of effort into finding out.

Yeah, I don't know many really attractive people that don't have university educations, but I think that's more a reflection of who I hang out with.

(Obviously a lot of ugly stupid people :psyduck:)

[IRS]

Most ugly people don't develop attractive personalities, instead they become depressed and resentful of society. Attractive people receive a lot more positive attention, which makes them happier people who are more enjoyable to be around.

Source: Ick

/thread

This doesn't just apply to looks, but weight as well.

Fat people are ugly.

[Theiffy]

lol beauty and ugliness, two things that exist differently for each individual, so you can't really lump people into 2 categories.

to quote the very wise Aran: there's always going to be someone who thinks you're ugly, and there's always going to be someone who thinks you are attractive. or in syt's case, you might also love yourself :P

[AranchineD]

I don't remember saying that... >_> But I'll still agree with it!

[Fenrir]

ITT the forum community (mostly ugly) comments on their experiences growing up ugly and on their experiences dealing with the other (attractive) side.
Speak for yourself, I'm quite stunning. :cool:

Looks didn't do me any favours growing up, though, at all, ever - I developed my persecution complex from the same breed of childhood bullying regime anyone else here was unfortunate enough to endure, and a lot of less attractive guys had nowhere near the troubles I had. Obviously glaringly ugly traits get picked on, but I honestly don't think nerd glasses, freckles, a ****ed-up nose, a weirdly-shaped face, or an extra 40 kilos* would've made any difference for me.
I was singled out for something else entirely - probably some combination of social ineptitude, interest in "nerdy" things (videogames, hell I made the mistake of carrying on my interest in Pokemon into high school), not enough muscle to come out of fights on top, a series of unforunate social embarrassments, and the persecution complex that bullies seem to just be able to smell on you.

As far as the topic goes, I'm not sure what any of this says about my character, really, whether my ordeals relate to those of the typical "ugly" person (they don't fit the silver-platter lifestyle of the attractive stereotype), or if dealing with adversity actually "improved" my personality at all.


*This last one probably would've improved my childhood, come to think of it.


The theory may be more pronounced in women than men. An attractive man cannot bank on being successful, but an attractive woman can reasonably assume that - no matter what she does in life - she will find some asshole who'll provide for her.
Often, successful unattractive men marry attractive women, blurring important lines between "us" and "them".
Occasionally, a fortunate ugly person will show the UDS phenotype (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ugly+duckling+syndrome). These people will develop character in early life, which will persist well after they have lost their ugliness. UDS girls are awesome. Date them.
^These I agree with.

While some unattractive people are empowered to work hard and succeed, many are lazy and ultimately fail to develop character due to a long history of being treated as not being special. These people persistently staff retail until their mid-20s, cling to socially avoidant hobbies, and hang out in cliques of underachievers.

^This I might be able to relate to.

b) people who think that looks and character are inversely proportional are just trying to feel better about their own unattractiveness.
I'm getting this impression.

I never really got ridiculed for my looks THAT much, in fact i think i've been praised more for looks rather than be teased for them. I'd say personally i was ridiculed for being too 'quiet' or for liking 'nerdy' things (art was the biggest one) and because i didn't like to smoke or go clubbing or whatever the other kids used to do.
^This.

Sometimes it's not that subtle (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HollywoodHomely).
I clicked that link at 1am - and was up until sunrise (http://xkcd.com/609/). Bastard.

Also, this trope is legendary:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CPRCleanPrettyReliable

[Princess Sakura]

I'm not sure what to think about this one...
All of my closest friends are beautiful pysically but I also think I'm biased by how well I know them personally that it enhances their physicallity. I'm not sure I would pigeonhole attractive girls as shallow with no character.
It's hard to explain but I think it's rather rich spoilt people who would otherwise be plain but have the resources to make themselves 'mainstream attractive' (hair colour and style, latest fasion, gym memberships, fake tan etc in the female case to the be the "hot blonde" with a good body but perhaps not so great face and no personallity) who get everything they want (including attention from the oppisite sex) that are totally transparent to me...
Am I making any sense or is this more drunken ramblings?

[Sytadel]

Am I making any sense?

Nah, but then again, you are a beautiful person. It's to be expected.

Incidentally I did find out once, the hard way, that girls really don't take "you're lucky you're pretty because you're dumb as a doornail" as a compliment.

[AranchineD]

Unless they're so stupid they actually do take it as a compliment anyway. >_>

[Lazlow]

Do you come with the car?

[Princess Sakura]

I'm not dumb OR beautiful I've just been on the wines since 7pm and find it hard to explain my complicated thought process (or apparent lack thereof) at the best of times ok >_>
I suppose it's the wrong crowd to ask if you've never noticed the chick with the crap face but she's 'hot' cos she has big hair and a tight skirt. Ugh

[AranchineD]

Please don't turn into the PCPP relationship thread.

Please don't turn into the PCPP relationship thread.

Please don't turn into the PCPP relationship thread.

[igotnewsuper8systemWRONG!]

I'm not sure what to think about this one...
All of my closest friends are beautiful pysically

pics\

[Princess Sakura]

I don't know what that consists of so... maybe I'll just leave now then :(

[AranchineD]

Oh you'll know it when you see it. It's when you say something bad about yourself and then get five pages on the forum of guys trying to convince you otherwise. <_<

[igotnewsuper8systemWRONG!]

just post some pics, it's past 1am and we're all a bit horny and depressed

[Princess Sakura]

Like I said I'm probably biased because I've known them so long their inner beauty becomes part of their physicallity for me.

That and I don't know if they'd give permission >_>

[Lazlow]

If you're referring to any mutual acquaintances we may share from a previous place of employment, then I whole heartedly agree. >_>

[Princess Sakura]

;) She is still one of my circle of friends yes ahaha Also she thinks you're awesome!

[Lazlow]

http://i28.tinypic.com/2lmujix.png

[Almighty Beanchild]

If you're referring to any mutual acquaintances we may share from a previous place of employment, then I whole heartedly agree. >_>

She is still one of my circle of friends yes ahaha Also she thinks you're awesome!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v192/AlmightyBean/emphasised.jpg

[Vindik8or]

I think that this "theory" has the appeal of folk logic like, say, the ladder "theory" (especially to the disaffected, disenfranchised and downtrodden of the Internet Forum Experience), but will show no empiric correlation.

Also how do you measure something like "development of character" with validity?

[AranchineD]

Also how do you measure something like "development of character" with validity?

Syt has a long piece of pipe with notches on it every 7.39 cm.

[Dust]

Yes, but how LONG is the pipe?

[Sytadel]

125.63cm long, haven't you read the literature on pipe-character measurements?

[Dust]

I must have missed that lecture... if you could just point me at some links?

[incompatible with life]

Also how do you measure something like "development of character" with validity?
Well, there's always the end result - how well adjusted and functional they are in society.

[Theiffy]

Well, there's always the end result - how well adjusted and functional they are in society.

Some people can appear to be well adjusted and functional, but behind the scenes....

[Second]

Fat ugly bitches (Fatuches from now on) are terrible people. Fatuches don't have character, Fatuches have a handbag full of steak for snacking.

[Vindik8or]

By that measure on this theory's assumptions many beautiful people are well adjusted and functional in society because they are beautiful.

[Second]

Some beautiful people also keep steak in their handbags. They just throw up later.

[Theiffy]

What about people within the normal weight range... do we actually EAT the steak or throw it up?

[Second]

They flip a coin.

[Lazlow]

Nah, they eat the steak, throw it up, and then eat it again.

[incompatible with life]

Some people can appear to be well adjusted and functional, but behind the scenes....
Story of my life :p

Nevertheless I wouldn't expect it to be a perfect measure but what I see as the best fit. Granted this does then ignore quite a lot of valuable things that can be found in a person and also assumes that unless they have some sort of standing in society they're worthless. But I liken it somewhat to democracy - not infallible but it's what seems to work best.


By that measure on this theory's assumptions many beautiful people are well adjusted and functional in society because they are beautiful.
Not necessarily. That's assuming that all beautiful people become successful. Again I make quite a few assumptions but how many beautiful people can you think of who became successful on their looks alone? Also taking into account my earlier assertion that beauty has a best before date. I sort of imagine most such people peak in high school, don't do much with their lives and most likely end up either with a minimal wage job or unemployed (or at least that's the fantasy that helped me survive through high school).

[IRS]

By that measure on this theory's assumptions many beautiful people are well adjusted and functional in society because they are beautiful.

I said it before, I will repeat myself.

Beautiful people are more well adjusted than ugly people. They feel better about themselves, naturally they are better people to be around than bitter resentful ugmos.

[Lex]

all people are horrible neurotic tards. let's just be done with it.

[Xanafalgue]

"You chose books, I chose looks"

[Shorty]

all people are horrible neurotic tards. let's just be done with it.

That's the thing about being a "horrible neurotic 'tard" - you can't "just be done" with anything.

[Dust]

Are we connceting specific 'looks' with being beautiful and feeling good as well?
Because different cultures [and subcultures] would have different ideals of beauty [if at all] how does that get into the equation here?

I suspect being well adjusted has more to do with a correct diet [nutrition plays a very important part in body chemistry, inc. brain] and have a balanced amount of physical activities, than 'looks'

[Xanafalgue]

I have never met a 'well adjusted' person. They're like an urban legend.

[Vindik8or]

Poor spelling and grammar is hideously unattractive to me. Using incorrect punctation marks is tantamount to being a freckled ranga with milk-bottle glasses and a slackjaw.

[Fenrir]

^Vin is my proxy on this matter.

[incompatible with life]

Are we connceting specific 'looks' with being beautiful and feeling good as well?
Because different cultures [and subcultures] would have different ideals of beauty [if at all] how does that get into the equation here?
Well I think going into specific looks is going to be a touch irrelevant in this particular discussion. Rather it can be recognised that there are certain appearances that are more highly favoured in society than others.

I suspect being well adjusted has more to do with a correct diet [nutrition plays a very important part in body chemistry, inc. brain] and have a balanced amount of physical activities, than 'looks'
I don't doubt it has some role to play but I doubt that it's a major factor. It's essentially tantamount to saying that people with the best maintained cars are the best drivers.

[sausage]

all people are horrible neurotic tards. let's just be done with it.


Amen... +1.

[voltron]

Speak for yourself, I'm quite stunning. :cool:


Oh no you dint. No one calls themselves stunning on my watch and gets away with it.