Gran Turismo 5

[Lazlow]

Why is everything an "extremely old build"?

[Creedy]

Because the media has seen a much more advanced damage system behind closed doors.

"The video begins with a street circuit and with electronic music in the background. Then we can see the cars, especially new ones at its best going around the track, the GT style of life. We see cars NASCAR, rally, Lamborghinis and Bugattis. We see the pits in full and frenetic action. The images come from the replay mode. We run at night. The modeling is clearly at the level expected. And finally we see the first deformation and cracks on cars. There are a few shouts of excitement among those present. They are short but intense second accident. A lack of a better word, awesome."

[HiredMan]

Because the media has seen a much more advanced damage system behind closed doors.

The damage system is not whats worrying me about that clip, its the actual collision physics model.

Showing the latest build of the game behind closed doors strikes me as a very strange thing to do. So they can see it, but cant report on it? I might be missing something but that seems weird.....

EDIT: missed your stealth edit :) why aren't the media permitted to show us the visuals they saw?

[Creedy]

The damage system is not whats worrying me about that clip, its the actual collision physics model.

Showing the latest build of the game behind closed doors strikes me as a very strange thing to do. So they can see it, but cant report on it? I might be missing something but that seems weird.....

Why is it weird?
It happens with a lot of Japanese high profile games, Final Fantasy 13 included.

As for your worry about the physics, if the damage shown off is old, wouldn't it be right to assume the physics are also old?

[Surgeon.]

Damage isn't on all cars right?

[igotnewsuper8systemWRONG!]

I think it is

[Lazlow]

Damage isn't on all cars right?

It'll vary; more complex deformation and damage on race spec cars only

"The video begins with a street circuit and with electronic music in the background. Then we can see the cars, especially new ones at its best going around the track, the GT style of life. We see cars NASCAR, rally, Lamborghinis and Bugattis. We see the pits in full and frenetic action. The images come from the replay mode. We run at night. The modeling is clearly at the level expected. And finally we see the first deformation and cracks on cars. There are a few shouts of excitement among those present. They are short but intense second accident. A lack of a better word, awesome."

I saw similar hyperbole from IGN when they reported the Subaru video, so I'm not buying into unsubstantiated statements much.

[HiredMan]

Why is it weird?
It happens with a lot of Japanese high profile games, Final Fantasy 13 included.

As for your worry about the physics, if the damage shown off is old, wouldn't it be right to assume the physics are also old?

Seems logical to me, but I was under the impression that the damage was a (relatively) recent addition to the engine? I must admit that as it seems to be so hard to get concrete info on GT5, I haven't been following it as closely as some other games.....

Anyway, I hope we get to see this secret media build soon as it might put my fears about the collision physics to rest!

[igotnewsuper8systemWRONG!]

It's kind of hard to tell where PD are at with their engine, after all these years who knows how it is or where its at, they are pretty tight lipped about a lot of the games aspects. If they give us a demo or show a reply, we really have no clue what the deal is with it... is it the game 2 years ago? Is it the game recently? Are they holding back the games true physics engine? Are they looking for market research on a specific part?

[Lazlow]

As for your worry about the physics, if the damage shown off is old, wouldn't it be right to assume the physics are also old?

The physics should be old, the physics model should have been the first thing they nutted out. Without a game engine, there is no game.

[Creedy]

The physics should be old, the physics model should have been the first thing they nutted out. Without a game engine, there is no game.

I just know that the physics engine has changed between GTHD, GT5:P ad even GT5 at TGS and yt again Yamauchi said they have been updating the physics engine since TGS.

I mean if NASCARS really can flip and role, obviously the physics engine will have changed drastically since what was shown at TGS.

I'm a bit wary about Yamauchi and his comments. Sounds like they are implementing so many things into GT5 that it's hard to comprehend. Damage, night cycles, weather, upgradeable car parts/interrior, fully functioning online component, the list goes on and on.
I've always been weary of Yamauchi's comments even since he announced GT4 would have online play.

I like to keep positive though and see how it turns out.

For now just fracking give me Forza 3 and NFS Shift!!!

[Blue]

I just know that the physics engine has changed between GTHD, GT5:P ad even GT5 at TGS and yt again Yamauchi said they have been updating the physics engine since TGS.

I mean if NASCARS really can flip and role, obviously the physics engine will have changed drastically since what was shown at TGS.

I'm a bit wary about Yamauchi and his comments. Sounds like they are implementing so many things into GT5 that it's hard to comprehend. Damage, night cycles, weather, upgradeable car parts/interrior, fully functioning online component, the list goes on and on.
I've always been weary of Yamauchi's comments even since he announced GT4 would have online play.

I like to keep positive though and see how it turns out.

For now just fracking give me Forza 3 and NFS Shift!!!I know you made a mistake here, but I agree.

[Shorty]

I've no doubt no matter what PD release, certain people will never accept it and will go back to what the know and are already racing. Thats fine, but its a bit dissapointing to see people not wanting a game to succeed and instead focusing on every negative aspect they can imagine. Many valid critisisms have been raised, but they are struggling under the weight of many more negative comments that are simply arguing for arguments sake.

It isn't "not wanting the game to succeed" as opposed to "skepticism that the game has progressed in areas other than graphics". Even you agree that there are many valid concerns in those areas and to be honest, none of the available evidence seems to fully substantiate the big claims being made about a game which is less than six months from its apparent release date.

[Creedy]

I don't know how to pay this Shorty but you already seem to have come to the conclusion that GT5 will be quite average. Instead if waiting for some actual facts to be announced your all to happy to sit there and put GT5 down based on previous GT games.

[Shorty]

I don't know how to pay this Shorty but you already seem to have come to the conclusion that GT5 will be quite average. Instead if waiting for some actual facts to be announced your all to happy to sit there and put GT5 down based on previous GT games.

I don't think you're exactly qualified to assess what "conclusions" I've come to if that is what you think I've been saying.

Even you're not 100% sure that Yamauchi's going to fully deliver on all of his promises (they're not "facts" until they're actually implemented into the final game) so how can I be "put[ting] GT5 down" if I'm raising almost the exact same concerns? Surely this thread can accomodate opinions between "this game will rule" and "this game will suck".

[freeradical]

Instead if waiting for some actual facts to be announced your all to happy to sit there and put GT5 down .......
As opposed to paraising said game without any actual facts, just Yamauchi's words.

[TrinityJayOne]

They're simply playing devil's advocate, and they are right, because it IS hard to believe all these claims of awesome when there's zero evidence and PD are quite good at not keeping promises.

For example, the collision physics. Why should we believe that these have been improved when they've been like that since the first game in the series? Also, that video was from TGS 2009...3 weeks ago. I find it very hard to believe that they would choose to update the physics engine 5yrs into development, and equally hard to believe that they'd show what you claim to be such an old build if the above has occurred. Furthermore, the 458 Italia was first shown at the very end of July, and we'd have to assume that they'd use the latest & greatest build to show it off in that video. That suggests this whizbang new build has been cooked up in no more than 2.5mths. What have they been spending 5yrs on then? Cover art?

Regarding models, you are aware that Turn 10 have high-poly models (I believe 10x the polys was their figure) in use for the menus and carporn mode, while lower res (but still far superior to FM2) models are used for the racing? If you haven't already seen it, check out the video showing how much detail went into capturing the Veyron. The only way they could get a more accurate representation onto the disc is if they had that teleporting laser gun from Tron. :D

The moral of the story is that we are allowed to be cynical and base our opinions on what we have seen, until something better appears that consists of more than hopes & dreams.

[StorminNorman]

Actually there's an apparent bug in the Forza 3 demo where lower-poly models are being used in the replays compared to the actual race.

I just know that the physics engine has changed between GTHD, GT5:P ad even GT5 at TGS and yt again Yamauchi said they have been updating the physics engine since TGS.

The thing is, physics are an extremely fundamental part of the game, and so you would expect that the basic game physics would have been finished long before any art assets went into the game. In other words, even if the demo shown at TGS is "old", it's still progressed far beyond the point where they should be developing and re-writing physics modelling. That's something you'd do in a sequel, rather than well into the alpha or beta phase of the game (the TGS demo would at least be an alpha, they wouldn't show it otherwise).

It's pretty clear that, at least once during GT5 development, Polyphony did return to the drawing board and redesign the game from scratch. GTHD to GT5:P is a huge difference, so at least one rewrite occurred in that time-frame. Whether or not there's been another rewrite since GT5:P is hard to know until the game comes out. There's certainly been enough time to do it, although only if Polyphony had been working to extremely tight deadlines.

The truth is that what was shown at E3 and TGS represents a much closer variant of the final game than you might think, even with the delay to March next year (if the game really is going to make the March deadline, it should have entered the testing phase around the time of TGS, as the whole thing would need to be completed for mastering and distribution by, say, February at the latest.

Games take time to make, and while it's possible that Polyphony showed off a year-old pre-alpha of the game at E3 and TGS, I find that hard to believe given how finished the game looks at that stage. More likely those displays were out of date by only a couple of months, which wouldn't be enough time to make the dramatic changes you seem to suggest have been made since those demos were produced.

[TAT]

The moral of the story is that we are allowed to be cynical and base our opinions on what we have seen, until something better appears that consists of more than hopes & dreams.
Exactly.

[Rypien GT]

Its been a long time since i last raced GT5:P, but i stumbled across some old vids of our MNR (Monday Night Racing) sessions. Even with GT5:P's limitations we definately had some fun. We usually pulled some really fast community members who know how to get around a track, and it was not uncommon for 16 player grids on a regular basis. Most of these guys are extrmemly quick and have been regular top finishers for many years in the offline scene and very experienced in PC racing as well. All of us are hanging out for GT5 so we can all hit the track again with a much improved game.

I never got to record any of our sessions, but one of the english members 'Peekay' raced in a couple although he was not a regular due to the timezone differences between England and Oz. This vid is not the most exciting racing, and GT5:P was not the best to showcase the racing. Was good fun anyways.

http://www.youtube.com/user/peekay66#p/u/7/EA1xxeOKvY8
(Peekay passed me at the end of lap 2, i'm in one of the Blue Intergras)

I'll see if i can find some of the more exciting races we had (some really epic battles were had some nights). I'm sure one of the guys has some vids tucked away somewhere. Always great to have a large grid of guys who are all fairly evenly matched.

[Creedy]

Some people asked me what aabout GT5's car models makes them so much more advanced than Forza 3's car models.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Og3uRCwHPMA

Check at the 1:30 mark, does Forza 3 seriously have car models that detailed and take up to 6 months to complete?

*EDIT*

I just noticed the title of that video ........ if that packaging is true ...... WTF at 3 discs for this game.

[AranchineD]

No, it has car models that detailed that take up to 1 month to complete.

[Creedy]

Any videos or anything I could watch?

[AranchineD]

No, because I made it up.

[Lazlow]

Don't read too much into the 6 months call. Being an unreleased Merc, information on it wouldn't have been easy to come by.

[Creedy]

Don't read too much into the 6 months call. Being an unreleased Merc, information on it wouldn't have been easy to come by.

I also wouldn't doubt that Polyphony got an invite over there as soon as the first SLS AMG had been manufactured. Hell, Polyphony probably knew about the car before manufacturing even started.

[Lazlow]

You underestimate how secretive auto manufacturers are. Hell the first test vehicles for the SLS used a Dodge Viper body shell.

[TAT]

You underestimate how secretive auto manufacturers are. Hell the first test vehicles for the SLS used a Dodge Viper body shell.
This, though it's a different story entirely if the manufacturer/designer worked with PD (like that insane Nike car in GT4)

[Blue]

This, though it's a different story entirely if the manufacturer/designer worked with PD (like that insane Nike car in GT4)A photo I took of that car made it into OAPS2M.

[igotnewsuper8systemWRONG!]

No, because I made it up.

I wish we still had pep so I didn't need to quote posts like this and point at that they made me laugh

[turb06]

140 developers huh. maybe they should make it 200 so the game actually comes out. Seriously forza 9 will be out before GT5 confirmed release date or not it wont be surprising if it gets delayed again.

[texta]

140 developers huh. maybe they should make it 200 so the game actually comes out. Seriously forza 9 will be out before GT5 confirmed release date or not it wont be surprising if it gets delayed again.
Quality over quantity mate.

[Shorty]

That maxim has its limits, though. The Forza games aren't exactly budget productions and five years is definitely on the upper end of the development time scale. Any longer and you're edging towards Too Human/Duke Nukem Forever territory. I understand the argument behind "taking your time" with a game but surely at some point it has to be done, right?

[texta]

Yeah absolutely. As long as it comes out before the PS4, I'm not really fussed though.

[Rypien GT]

During the years between GT4 and the upcomming GT5, PD have not exactly been doing nothing. Anyone heard of Tourist Trophy? A pretty impressive game for those who like bikes and would have probably taken up a bit of PD's time. Not to mention the time to get GT5:P out on shelves too. Limited version or not, it still takes time to develop.

Soo, one full game and one Prologue since GT4. Nothing to set the world on fire, but it isnt the big drought some people harp on about either.

We all know what happens when games come out before time. Bugs, patches, and online problems. I'm experiencing that now with another well known racing game.

Bring on GT baby ;)

[Lazlow]

Hope they do a follow up to Tourist Trophy; the first was woefully lacking in a few areas, but it showed promise.

[Rypien GT]

I agree. Not really into bikes but it showed promise and was fun. There was talk a while ago that GT5 would come bundled with bikes too, but i think this is just talk. Fingers crossed though.

[Lazlow]

I hope not. TT suffered from having bikes pasted into GT4s engine; the handling mechanics were a bit off.

[TAT]

We all know what happens when games come out before time.
So what happens when games don't come out at all?

[Blue]

During the years between GT4 and the upcomming GT5, PD have not exactly been doing nothing. Anyone heard of Tourist Trophy? A pretty impressive game for those who like bikes and would have probably taken up a bit of PD's time. Not to mention the time to get GT5:P out on shelves too. Limited version or not, it still takes time to develop.

Soo, one full game and one Prologue since GT4. Nothing to set the world on fire, but it isnt the big drought some people harp on about either.

We all know what happens when games come out before time. Bugs, patches, and online problems. I'm experiencing that now with another well known racing game.

Bring on GT baby ;)Tourist Trophy was years ago, and even more importantly, it was almost a carbon copy of GT4, but with the cars replaced with bikes. It was a very easy game to develop, years ago. Prologue is a glorified demo, and if releasing that caused the years of delays for the proper game, then they shouldn't have released it. It isn't responsible for the delays, however, as it was just a part of the development process, not a side-project. Work completed during Prologue is work that went towards the game proper. Soooo … One motorcycle-themed expansion pack, and one demo, yeah. Using those reasons as justification for this delay is ridiculous.

You're complaining about bugs in Forza 3? Have you never played PC games before? Every release is patched regularly throughout its lifetime, to resolve any issues. The few bugs in Forza 3 have been quite minor, and are being dealt with swiftly. It's a universally acclaimed piece of software, and claiming that it is unusually buggy really is cynical fanboyism.

Forza 3 has been released, and is brilliant. It's a GT fanboy's worst nightmare, as they struggle to find flaws in a brilliant game, and wait for their overdue, outmoded hero to arrive and give their lives meaning again.

You make Creedy seem reasonable.

[turb06]

Well said sir

[Creedy]

I think you guys are being unreasonable.
Nothing wrong with Rypian being excited about GT5.

We still have no idea what to expect and you guys are still being harsh on GT5 not knowing what to expect.

[TAT]

I think you guys are being unreasonable.
Nothing wrong with Rypian being excited about GT5.
There's nothing wrong with being excited about GT5, but he's going about it the completely wrong way (like you, in other words)

We still have no idea what to expect and you guys are still being harsh on GT5 not knowing what to expect.
We covered this a page ago: every person who is commenting on GT5 has experience with at least one other title in the series; from the video we have seen, and from GT5 Prologue, it's clear to us that Polyphony Digital have a lot of work to do to catch up to Forza 2, let alone 3.

Until the situation changes (Q1 2010 at this stage) or until we see something to change our minds, we can be as critical as we want.

[Blue]

I was talking to a mate the other day, who is a bit of a gamer, but doesn't exactly follow gaming news or anything like that. Anyway, I mentioned I'd bought Forza 3, and he told me that his brother had just bought a 360, and so he was wondering how F3 was. I told him it was good, and he asked if I'd played Live For Speed, and how they compared. He also mentioned that he'd enjoyed the latest iteration in the V8 Supercars series, but when I mentioned Gran Turismo, he told me that he wasn't a fan of the series, because it was "unrealistic". I told him to grab Forza 3, and get on XBL for some races. I'll let you know what he thinks of Forza, but I just found it interesting that he volunteered that information.

I'd love to have a reason to pick up a PS3, but the fact is, the physics in GT have fallen behind the curve, and I don't see that changing in the next few months.

[Lazlow]

Latest iteration of the V8 Supercars series? Race Driver 3 is pretty old... unless he means V8 Superstars... which is shit.

[Blue]

Latest iteration of the V8 Supercars series? Race Driver 3 is pretty old... unless he means V8 Superstars... which is shit.Yeah, Race Driver 3. We were going back a bit there. He still preferred Race Driver 3 to GT4. The weighting of the handling and the cosmetic and mechanical damage, not to mention the dedicated racing series', gave it the edge apparently. Then he got onto Live For Speed.

[Lazlow]

I can't get into Live for Speed; rFactor shits all over it for mods. But then I quit rFactor too and went back to GTR2 for better AI :S

[Shorty]

We covered this a page ago: every person who is commenting on GT5 has experience with at least one other title in the series; from the video we have seen, and from GT5 Prologue, it's clear to us that Polyphony Digital have a lot of work to do to catch up to Forza 2, let alone 3.

Until the situation changes (Q1 2010 at this stage) or until we see something to change our minds, we can be as critical as we want.

Furthermore, even if we accept that "none of us know what to expect", doesn't that mean that it's equally foolhardy to be overly kind about it as it is to be overly harsh?

[TAT]

Furthermore, even if we accept that "none of us know what to expect", doesn't that mean that it's equally foolhardy to be overly kind about it as it is to be overly harsh?
Well played, Mr. Pink.

[Blue]

Well played, Mr. Pink.That's why he escaped with the diamonds.

Creedy, it's much fairer for 'us' to believe, based on the series as a whole, Prologue, and the footage and information doing the rounds now, that GT5 will have arrived several years too late, and will be an underwhelming entry in an ageing series, than it is for you to claim, despite no indications to support such a concept, that it will be some all-consuming revolution, brushing Forza 3 aside as it reinvents the wheel once again.

[igotnewsuper8systemWRONG!]

Furthermore, even if we accept that "none of us know what to expect", doesn't that mean that it's equally foolhardy to be overly kind about it as it is to be overly harsh?

I can't help but disagree, in this particular case anyway... This isn't 3D Realms working on Duke Nukem Forever, this is one of Sony's biggest first party devs working not only their flagship title, but one of the most respected and renowned franchises associated with the Playstation brand.

They have been working on the game for a long time and while details regarding many of the games core aspects may be scarce, considering PD's track record, their reputation for perfection, the number of years they have been working on the game and the massive size of the team, I can't help but think that at the very least the fans can expect a great game that they will spend a great deal of time playing.

With this in mind and with the release date soon approaching, is it not perfectly ok for the fans to get a little giddy when posting in the games dedicated thread? Personally I feel it should be expected, and I feel it's a lot more welcome than users ragging on an unreleased game because it has been in development for a long time and because the physics of its almost 5 year old last gen predecessor are outdated compared to games released this year.

[Shorty]

With this in mind and with the release date soon approaching, is it not perfectly ok for the fans to get a little giddy when posting in the games dedicated thread? Personally I feel it should be expected, and I feel it's a lot more welcome than users ragging on an unreleased game because it has been in development for a long time and because the physics of its almost 5 year old last gen predecessor are outdated compared to games released this year.

So when people are excited and "a little giddy" it's "perfectly ok" but when people are reasonably critical or simply skeptical it's "ragging"? Isn't that usually called a "double standard"?

[Lazlow]

their reputation for perfection

They'd first need to attain perfection to have that reputation.

[TAT]

Personally I feel it should be expected, and I feel it's a lot more welcome than users ragging on an unreleased game because it has been in development for a long time and because the physics of its almost 5 year old last gen predecessor are outdated compared to games released this year.
Sorry man, but the physics from the latest video seem about the same as GT4 (i.e., identical collisions)

[Lazlow]

Oh but TAT, that video was from a very old build. They most likely rewritten a large chunk of their physics engine by now!

[TAT]

Then I'll just shut my damn mouth and go over *here*

(begs the question why they'd show that footage in the first place)

[Creedy]

This is the problem, you guys are all having a great little time talking about Forza 3 in the Forza 3 thread and we can't say a single thing in the Gran Turismo 5 thread without someone putting the game down.

Why is this?

[Lazlow]

Because GT5 is playing catch up in many areas (ie online) and they haven't substantiated many of their other wild claims (ie driving model, damage).

We are being logically critical of a game that 6 months from release promises the world but has shown only disappointment.

And based on previous titles, we aren't putting as much faith into Polyphony as you are.

This thread isn't China, we're entitled to our criticisms. We aren't exactly being hyperbolic.

[Xanafalgue]

I'll just get this on PC

[Creedy]

Because GT5 is playing catch up in many areas (ie online) and they haven't substantiated many of their other wild claims (ie driving model, damage).

We are being logically critical of a game that 6 months from release promises the world but has shown only disappointment.

And based on previous titles, we aren't putting as much faith into Polyphony as you are.

This thread isn't China, we're entitled to our criticisms. We aren't exactly being hyperbolic.

Yeah, we know you aren't putting any faith into Polyphony, we knew this 20 pages ago.
So why is it that you feel the need to constantly remind us you have no faith in Polyphony when all we want to do is talk about the possibilities and keep ourselves excited?

[Shorty]

Why do you feel the need to constantly tell us that we're doing the wrong thing when we express doubt or concerns over the direction of this series? It's not fair to decree that people can only say nice things about a game. The door swings both ways.

[TAT]

Well, you see now it's a contest to see if you can wade through the REALITY and keep yourself in high spirits

[Creedy]

Why do you feel the need to constantly tell us that we're doing the wrong thing when we express doubt or concerns over the direction of this series? It's not fair to decree that people can only say nice things about a game. The door swings both ways.

I already said why, for once it would be nice to enjoy the party without any gate crashers. Is that really to much to ask for? REALLY???

[REQUIEM]

I just hope that GT5 is as great as its hype.

[Stevorooni]

A mod should spilt the thread into nice and nasty conversations.

[Shorty]

I already said why, for once it would be nice to enjoy the party without any gate crashers. Is that really to much to ask for? REALLY???

Yes, because you're calling anyone who doesn't share your point of view a "gatecrasher". That's the problem, here. You need to calm down, take a deep breath and realise that maybe it's okay for people to not share your unbridled enthusiasm for GT5. The sooner you do that, the easier it's going to be for everyone. In fact, it might even calm things down a bit if you tried to see things from other peoples' point of view.

[Creedy]

I do understand why people wouldn't be interested in GT5. There are plenty of games that don't interest me, but you don't see me posting in them constantly with negative views do you? I may say one post or something but post after post.
I'll never understand peoples mindset that need to keep needlessly posting the same thing all the time.

[Lex]

Hmmm me neither. HERP ILL GET IT FOR PC TAKE THAT XBOTS.

[freeradical]

Maybe there is a GT Game Discussion thread on a North Korean forum?

[Blue]

I do understand why people wouldn't be interested in GT5. There are plenty of games that don't interest me, but you don't see me posting in them constantly with negative views do you? I may say one post or something but post after post.
I'll never understand peoples mindset that need to keep needlessly posting the same thing all the time.Argh, ****! Ughh … Ugh, my head. Ow. Ow-OW. Ouch.

[Shorty]

I do understand why people wouldn't be interested in GT5. There are plenty of games that don't interest me, but you don't see me posting in them constantly with negative views do you? I may say one post or something but post after post.
I'll never understand peoples mindset that need to keep needlessly posting the same thing all the time.

That's a pretty gross misrepresentation of the criticism being posted here. It doesn't help the conversation if you keep implying that other peoples' opinions aren't valid.

[Rypien GT]

Why do you feel the need to constantly tell us that we're doing the wrong thing when we express doubt or concerns over the direction of this series? It's not fair to decree that people can only say nice things about a game. The door swings both ways.

It certainly does.

But all i see here are three main groups of people in this thread. One group is for the fans of the game who try and discuss it and are looking forward to it in a positive way. One group who offer relevant criticism the majority of the time (even though the same things are said over and over), and then there is the third group who go on about 'fanboys' and basically talk rubbish and puff out thier little chests.

I was talking to a mate the other day, who is a bit of a gamer, but doesn't exactly follow gaming news or anything like that. Anyway, I mentioned I'd bought Forza 3, and he told me that his brother had just bought a 360, and so he was wondering how F3 was. I told him it was good, and he asked if I'd played Live For Speed, and how they compared. He also mentioned that he'd enjoyed the latest iteration in the V8 Supercars series, but when I mentioned Gran Turismo, he told me that he wasn't a fan of the series, because it was "unrealistic". I told him to grab Forza 3, and get on XBL for some races. I'll let you know what he thinks of Forza, but I just found it interesting that he volunteered that information.

I'd love to have a reason to pick up a PS3, but the fact is, the physics in GT have fallen behind the curve, and I don't see that changing in the next few months.

I've played loads of Live For Speed (1 and 2), and i think GT5:P's drving physics hold up very well indeed, and considering LFS is an old game it still has awesome driving physics. Have you tried either game? As for GT falling behind the curve ...mmm... i guess it has since GT5 has not even come out yet. It won't change for the next few months as you say, but then it will change my friend. Buy a PS3 and find out first hand. Better than second hand opinions.

That's why he escaped with the diamonds.

Creedy, it's much fairer for 'us' to believe, based on the series as a whole, Prologue, and the footage and information doing the rounds now, that GT5 will have arrived several years too late, and will be an underwhelming entry in an ageing series, than it is for you to claim, despite no indications to support such a concept, that it will be some all-consuming revolution, brushing Forza 3 aside as it reinvents the wheel once again.

Why is everyting comming out of your mouth GT v Forza? One serious hang up mate. You talk about GT fanboys, but seriously, if anyone reads through your posts in this thread, then they would see the Forza Fanboy Badge that you wear with pride.

Tourist Trophy was years ago, and even more importantly, it was almost a carbon copy of GT4, but with the cars replaced with bikes. It was a very easy game to develop, years ago. Prologue is a glorified demo, and if releasing that caused the years of delays for the proper game, then they shouldn't have released it. It isn't responsible for the delays, however, as it was just a part of the development process, not a side-project. Work completed during Prologue is work that went towards the game proper. Soooo … One motorcycle-themed expansion pack, and one demo, yeah. Using those reasons as justification for this delay is ridiculous.

You're complaining about bugs in Forza 3? Have you never played PC games before? Every release is patched regularly throughout its lifetime, to resolve any issues. The few bugs in Forza 3 have been quite minor, and are being dealt with swiftly. It's a universally acclaimed piece of software, and claiming that it is unusually buggy really is cynical fanboyism.

Forza 3 has been released, and is brilliant. It's a GT fanboy's worst nightmare, as they struggle to find flaws in a brilliant game, and wait for their overdue, outmoded hero to arrive and give their lives meaning again.

You make Creedy seem reasonable.

TT was indeed heavily based on GT4, but the physics were totally different. Still would have taken time to develop. And GT5:P was indeed part of the development process, but early development. I was making the point that it hasn't been the big drought that some have gone on about since GT4. Might pay to read my post and fully understand it before posting.

The Forza bugs are not minor at all. But i'm not getting into Forza here, i've already posted a link in another thread where Forza fans have expressed anger at the number flaws in the game. And yes i've played loads of PC games and lots of PC racers. you?

Argh, ****! Ughh … Ugh, my head. Ow. Ow-OW. Ouch.

Is it the throbbing headache, or just the general appearance that has you feeling down?

[StorminNorman]

I do understand why people wouldn't be interested in GT5. There are plenty of games that don't interest me, but you don't see me posting in them constantly with negative views do you? I may say one post or something but post after post.

I think you're kind of missing the point a bit here.

We are interested in GT5, that's why we're posting in this thread. We're also deeply concerned about its development, as that will affect the final release of the game, and, therefore, whether or not we think it's worth buying or not.

The fact that we're willing to be critical of what we've seen of the game so far just shows that we don't have blind loyalty to the game's producers-- we believe that the game should stand up on its own merits, rather than on past glories, which seems (to me) to be how you're judging this game.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if we didn't care about GT5, we wouldn't be posting in this thread at all.

[Blue]

Yeah, Rypien, dude. Quit with the "try reading my post and understanding it first" bullshit. You can't even grasp obvious puns, your spelling is poor … I'm not trying to get personal here, or sound arrogant, but acting as if you're smarter than me probably isn't the route you should be taking in this discussion.

As an aside, however, no, there are some parts of your last post that are obviously far too witty for me to comprehend. That last, er, comment about a headache and, um, some "general appearance"? Yeah, that zinger went completely over my head, mate. Feel free to enlighten me.

Also, you tell me to "buy a PS3 and find out first hand. Better than second-hand opinions." I'm a bit stumped as to how an opinion that I myself have formulated based on such a wide array of factors and sources can be considered "second-hand". I'm sure you can explain it all to me.

I'm also going to need an explanation on the reasons why yours and Creedy's opinions are perfectly valid and justifiable, despite the fact that one of you is the forum's most notorious Sony fanboy, and the other is pretty much in a sexual relationship with the GT5:P disc, whereas everybody else is only here to rain on your parade? There's obviously a reason that anybody that, say, has doubts about the progress made by a once-great series is to be considered sub-human, but I'm going to need your help working that out, as well.

You also mention that "we" are using the "same old arguments" over and over. Now, from where I stand, that would seem a little unfair, considering that when you are asked why you have such blind faith in a particular product, you don't actually present ANY arguments, let alone rehashed ones. Maybe unashamedly arguing with someone without any solid points to back up your stance is a more sophisticated method of debate that I just haven't encountered during my incredibly limited experiences on this planet. If you could educate me on that, I'd be much obliged.

My. Now that I think really hard about it, there really IS a lot that I just don't understand, isn't there. Wow, here was I believing that just because I've owned every game in the series, come from a family of race drivers and mechanics, have no long-standing love-affair with the series or any competing series, and have seen all there is to see so far of GT5, that I had some kind of right to an opinion or the necessary knowledge and and intelligence to properly articulate it. Here was I actually convinced, by the way you've held yourself in this discussion so far, that I was better than you.

How wrong I was. I'm sorry.

[Space_Monkey]

............So how about those Ferrari's, pretty cool car to race around in.

[Blue]

............So how about those Ferrari's, pretty cool car to race around in.Pfft, no way dude. Sure, the first couple of Ferraris were alright, but then they just kept producing the same car over and over, and even started releasing half-arsed vehicles like the Dino, and trying to charge full price for them! Plus, from what I've seen of the new one, it's more of the same, just better looking.

[Rypien GT]

Yeah, Rypien, dude.

How wrong I was. I'm sorry.

Apology accepted.

Rumors of a track editor persist. Nothing set in stone as yet, but if this feature was in the game it would be pretty cool. The fantasy GT tracks have always been good, some right up there with the best of em. Real world tracks are always fun, but being able to edit tracks would bring another dimension to the game for sure.

Saving my pennies and am looking at getting myself a nice G27 for Xmas. Sourced a race seat for the frame, and with the G27 hooked up i'll be sitting pretty for GT5. Got a fair bit of time to get it sorted though ;)

[Blue]

Yeah, just as I thought. Oh, and I hope sarcasm doesn't go right over your head, like puns do.

If GT5 has a track editor, I will eat my X360 controller.

[TAT]

PD shouldn't bother with a track editor because they can never, EVER live up to the simplicity and brilliance that was the Stunts track editor.

[TrinityJayOne]

OMG...brb downloading Stunts.

[Rypien GT]

Yeah, just as I thought. Oh, and I hope sarcasm doesn't go right over your head, like puns do.

If GT5 has a track editor, I will eat my X360 controller.

The sarcasm goes into the bin right on top of the racist comments you like soo much. The 360 controller is one big unit, doubt it would touch the sides though.

Just wondering, do you own a PS3? Driven GT5:P much? Just curious.

[REQUIEM]

The sarcasm goes into the bin right on top of the racist comments you like soo much. The 360 controller is one big unit, doubt it would touch the sides though.

Just wondering, do you own a PS3? Driven GT5:P much? Just curious.

Blue is as useless as his posts mate. Dont let him bother you Rypien.

[Creedy]

My guess is that blue has maybe played about 3 races on his mates PS3.

[Blue]

The sarcasm goes into the bin right on top of the racist comments you like soo much. The 360 controller is one big unit, doubt it would touch the sides though.

Just wondering, do you own a PS3? Driven GT5:P much? Just curious.Racist comments? I think you've missed the point again, champ.

Also, I'm glad that UKG is consoling you, but just remember that he's one of the biggest morons on Hyper, and always has been. A pat on the back from him isn't anything to feel good about. Same goes for Creedy. You've got quite a cool little club going there.

You already know that I don't own a PS3. As I've said before, it's a shame that GT5 isn't a reason for me to buy one. Selective hearing, I guess.

[Creedy]

hahahahaha now your acting like it's high school, pretty damn pathetic.

[Lex]

hahahahaha now your acting like it's high school, pretty damn pathetic.

I lol'd.

[Blue]

hahahahaha now your acting like it's high school, pretty damn pathetic.I'd say that the fanboyism you all display is pretty much straight out of primary school, but carry on.

[Creedy]

Asking the respect to talk about this game in a positive light without any negativity for once is classified as fanboyism?

WOW!

[Lex]

Asking the respect to talk about this game in a positive light without any negativity for once is classified as fanboyism?

WOW!

Creedy, please, you know as well as I do what he's talking about, let's not be too childish about this.

[Starscream]

Okay.

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0903/derailed-train-derailed-thread-demotivational-poster-1237346157.jpg