Isn't it amazing

[Kotche]

Isn't it amazing that in a year that Nintendo is making a killing in the sales of consoles and games this is the quietest I have ever seen the Nintendo sub-forum of Hyper.

Is it because although people are buying alot of Wii games they are just shit and not worht discussion?

Is it because the majority of games are for the casual gamer which don't reside at Hyper?

Is it because gamers have decided to invest their time into other consoles?

Where are all the Wii owners on Hyper?

[AranchineD]

I think it's because the users on Hyper aren't complete dumbshits that are stupid enough to fall for Nintendo's false promises and illusions of innovation anymore.

[Second]

Thankfully I was able to sell my Wii console to one of those dumbshits. (Sorry Amy Rose)

[AranchineD]

Doesn't she never use the thing anymore anyway? >_>

[Stevorooni]

Nintendo: Good for Mario and Zelda and the odd 3rd party game, but buy another console for most of your gaming needs.

[AnTrAxX]

I'm a Wii owner who posts on Hyper (however not in Ninty General). I play video games nearly everyday, and havent for months touched the Wii.

No games. I don't want no gimmicky bulls*** like Wii Music or WiiFit or another version of Wii Sports (best game on it btw).

Nintendo sold out man.

[Blob]

Because the other forums are a bastion of excitment?
Hardly its just that theres no big wii news or games at the moment.

[Jickle]

Punch-Out, Little Kings Story, Broken Sword and Deadly Creatures were all awesome. >_>

[FrozenSoul80]

I haven't touched my Wii for over 10 months. The only person in my house who uses it is my dad, and he just plays Wii Golf. I got over poorly implemented motion controls and after experiencing "the future of gaming", I'd much rather use a gamepad.

[AranchineD]

Because the other forums are a bastion of excitment?

-Oh, awesome, they're going to release a 'Slim' PS3, and for under $500!

-Wow, this Games On Demand business is pretty interesting, I wonder what this holds for the future of digital downloads.


-...well, this sword fighting is neat I guess.

[fearofthesky]

Best reason to own a Wii? Virtual Console. Nuff said.

[aubergine]

The console serves an entirely different audience than the sort of person who posts on an internet forum. It's for your grandmother, your mother, in fact ANY overweight woman aged 35 or over.

But for us who remember the good old days when Nintendo made games, they have at least released those games for us to buy, AGAIN, which I at least probably would if I hadn't sold their overpriced glittering turd last year after waiting two years for even the promised PORTS to come out.

Apparently riches can't buy you haste or caring.

[Jay]

I reckon it's been a pretty good year for the Wii. Especially, as fots said, if you include the VC stuff.

[JubeiSaotome]

The console serves an entirely different audience than the sort of person who posts on an internet forum. It's for your grandmother, your mother, in fact ANY overweight woman aged 35 or over.

It really doesn't. The amount of family members who bought one in this category have played theirs maybe 10 times too. It's just a moneysink with no worth.

[Jay]

It really doesn't. The amount of family members who bought one in this category have played theirs maybe 10 times too. It's just a moneysink with no worth.

Just a bullshit statement. If this is the case, why is it that the Wii is the thing that is constantly busted out at multiplayer nights, whenever the crowd is even little mixed re: 'hardcore' players (hate that term) and 'non-hardcore' players? Yes, it happens to cater to a slightly different, dare I say broader market, but suggesting it has no worth is ****ing incendiary bullshit.

Anyway, I'm off to play Shadow Complex. :p

[Kotche]

I guess nextgen they will find that the casual gamers sucked into the Wii wont shell out for the next console and they'll be stuck with the remainder of the fanboys/faithful which will be even less then the Gamecube since they screwed them all over...

[Jay]

It's something of an unknown, I guess, with so much of the demographic being 'new'.

[Kotche]

But it is like Jubei said, if the wii fit demographic hardley use it (probably as much as their ab-king-pro or tredmill) then they may not venutre into the next gen.

However if they are stupid enough to buy things off danoz direct then they probably will..

I'm so confused!

[AranchineD]

Just a bullshit statement. If this is the case, why is it that the Wii is the thing that is constantly busted out at multiplayer nights, whenever the crowd is even little mixed re: 'hardcore' players (hate that term) and 'non-hardcore' players? Yes, it happens to cater to a slightly different, dare I say broader market, but suggesting it has no worth is ****ing incendiary bullshit.

Well this argument doesn't mean shit, I mean, when my mates and I get together we play Facebreaker for a good while everytime.

FACEBREAKER!

[Jay]

What are you talking about? Of course it holds water. By your rationale, that time you spend with your friends playing Facebreaker is of 'no worth' (which is the statement of his I am taking issue with). Do you really think that little of the clearly quality time you spend with your friends playing Facebreaker?

[Jickle]

Well this argument doesn't mean shit, I mean, when my mates and I get together we play Facebreaker for a good while everytime.

FACEBREAKER!

Your friends are mental. That game wouldn't be a worthy drink coaster at the death row final meal of a serial killer whose favourite victims were innocent, happy children.

[AranchineD]

Look, I'm just saying Facebreaker is a terrible game, alright? >_>


And that you can find worth in anything when you have people with you (whether it's because you're actually having fun, or having fun making fun of what you're doing, is a different argument!)

But why have a Wii if that's all you can get from it? I mean, you can have a bunch of guys getting together and constantly busting out other consoles, like in my above post, that would be a PS3 coming out, and often I bring my 360 and Guitar Hero stuff and everyone there, even the people who hardly ever play games, play not just GH but Soul Calibur and stuff as well.

Your friends are mental. That game wouldn't be a worthy drink coaster at the death row final meal of a serial killer whose favourite victims were innocent, happy children.

Look, when we were playing, we were all drunk, and it just involved the two players button mashing the **** out of the punch button, mashing block when you started getting hit, and then me ragequitting I 'lost' the match in 18 seconds due to the STUPID game system.

[Jickle]

But why have a Wii if that's all you can get from it? I mean, you can have a bunch of guys getting together and constantly busting out other consoles, like in my above post, that would be a PS3 coming out, and often I bring my 360 and Guitar Hero stuff and everyone there, even the people who hardly ever play games, play not just GH but Soul Calibur and stuff as well.

For about a month and a half or so earlier this year, the Wii was the console I was playing the most. My time was split between the games I mentioned earlier (all of them awesome), with a bit of Mad World and Sam and Max thrown in.

I would argue that the Wii is actually a good console, in that there are plenty of good games on there that are well worth buying and playing - the problem is that the competition is way ahead of it. I find I don't play my Wii for ages, then plug it one day, realise it's a much better console than I've been giving it credit for, play a bunch of games on it...and then go back to the 360 because ultimately it's a lot better. But certainly, the Wii's game catalogue has amassed a decent number of highlights and hits, even if it can't keep up with the other two consoles.


Look, when we were playing, we were all drunk, and it just involved the two players button mashing the **** out of the punch button, mashing block when you started getting hit, and then me ragequitting I 'lost' the match in 18 seconds due to the STUPID game system.

You just described playing the game sober, too!

The best thing about Facebreaker is that I got it for free and for some reason the trade value at GAME was $66 several months later.

[AranchineD]

For about a month and a half or so earlier this year, the Wii was the console I was playing the most. My time was split between the games I mentioned earlier (all of them awesome), with a bit of Mad World and Sam and Max thrown in.

I would argue that the Wii is actually a good console, in that there are plenty of good games on there that are well worth buying and playing - the problem is that the competition is way ahead of it. I find I don't play my Wii for ages, then plug it one day, realise it's a much better console than I've been giving it credit for, play a bunch of games on it...and then go back to the 360 because ultimately it's a lot better. But certainly, the Wii's game catalogue has amassed a decent number of highlights and hits, even if it can't keep up with the other two consoles.

I certainly couldn't argue that there isn't a number of good titles on the console. But I'd say that doesn't necessarily make it a good console; the great games on the console, imo, have comparable experiences on the other consoles, because really, the best games on the Wii are ones that don't really use the motion control and waggle at all, or at least not much at all.

You just described playing the game sober, too!

I assure you, I did no such thing! ;)

[Fenrir]

Your friends are mental. That game wouldn't be a worthy drink coaster at the death row final meal of a serial killer whose favourite victims were innocent, happy children.
Damn right, I'm not having that disc as a drink coaster.

[Jickle]

I certainly couldn't argue that there isn't a number of good titles on the console. But I'd say that doesn't necessarily make it a good console; the great games on the console, imo, have comparable experiences on the other consoles, because really, the best games on the Wii are ones that don't really use the motion control and waggle at all, or at least not much at all.

I more or less agree with all of this, except I do still think it's a 'good' console - the issue is that it is merely good, while the other consoles are excellent.

[FrozenSoul80]

I actually had a good 4 months use of my Wii, and in that time I thought it was pretty good. I bought a heap of games and it was a good way to pass the time when I wasn't at TAFE.

Then I bought the 360 and I realised the Wii was a cruel joke. It's like Nintendo looked at the competition and deliberately did half of what they were all doing.

Friends list? Eh just give them phone numbers for each game. Downloadable content? we'll do it later. Graphics? HDTVs will never take off. Memory storage? No one will ever fill up 512mb. Controls that work? Who needs them, we are Nintendo and our fans will eat up whatever shit we give them.

[Blue]

I was so disappointed with the GameCube that I was blinded by a desire for the Wii to be new and refreshing, rather than dull and forgettable.

Looking back now, I didn't really mind the GameCube all that much, and the Wii is a piece of shit, so there you go.

I will not be buying the next Nintendo console. My Wii, and even DS, sit unused, and have done all year. The games are just rubbish.

[McChimp]

Rubbish?? C'mon, that's a tad harsh. I've got all 3 consoles (as well as DS and PSP), and I still find reasons to go back the the Wii. I find it's a brilliant alternative to the PS3 and 360 in that I find there's actually some different gaming experiences to be had on it. I've got a whole heap of Wii games, and the majority of which I'd say are worthy of people's attention (bar the party-waggle games my wife and daughter keep getting!). Honestly, having the 360 AND PS3, I could do with out ONE of those, but the Wii? Nope, I'm hanging onto him!

[AranchineD]

I more or less agree with all of this, except I do still think it's a 'good' console - the issue is that it is merely good, while the other consoles are excellent.

Oh, well if you put it that way you might be right, I was only talking about if you could define a console as only either 'good' or 'poor' and nothing else.

[SOX]

I sold mine (I've NEVER sold a console before) after hanging on to it for a few years before finally giving up on it. The only games I would miss had GCN alternatives (Brawl/Melee and Twilight Princess/Reversed Twilight Princess).

If there's one good thing that came out of it, its that I appreciate the GCN a lot more now than when I was stuck with it last gen.

[JubeiSaotome]

I should rephrase what I said. Sure, wii has it's decent games (Casual, or core) and it's overgrown pile of throw away games, but the thing I dislike is how Nintendo handle it. Old fans and new casual fans are in the same boat, 10 good core/casual games and 100,000 shovelware games with the Nintendo seal of approval. The Wii has become the new PS2 in terms of library, low "good to shit" ratio.

[Jay]

That I agree with - though I'd question the numbers (though that of course is purely subjective). I wish Nintendo would rethink their strategy with the console.

[AyatollaofRocknRolla]

I might dust of my Wii every 3 months or so. The main reason I don't game much on it is that there's a constant stream of games (retail and xbla) on the 360. There's never a point where I don't have something to play on 360.

There are a few games released a year that I'm interested in on the Wii, but I'm quite happy to pass them up unless they are must haves becuase I just wont get to them. When I find the time I'm keen to finish off Galaxy and get stuck into Okami. I wouldn't mind checking out De Blob and Little Kings Story and the Metroid Trilogy when thats out.

In the reasonably quite release period the last couple of months I've had a go at WiiSports Resort and Grandslam Tennis, but most of my gaming has been catchup on Xbox360 stuff I hadn't got to yet. Fallout DLC , The lost and damned etc.

I also have a DS, which I prefer to Wii. So Wii gaming isn't much of a priority for me.

[Fenrir]

The only games I would miss had GCN alternatives (Brawl/Melee and Twilight Princess/Reversed Twilight Princess).
Let us be clear on one thing: the GCN version of Twilight Princess was the definitive canonical version. The Wii version was a port.

Old fans and new casual fans are in the same boat, 10 good core/casual games and 100,000 shovelware games with the Nintendo seal of approval. The Wii has become the new PS2 in terms of library, low "good to shit" ratio.
The Nintendo seal of approval isn't some review enforcement mechanism designed to weed out the 3-6/10 range of games. The whole reason it came into being in the first place was because games on retail shelves were actually broken, riddled with serious technical bugs, and/or contained controversially crude content. Games like Custer's Revenge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Custer%27s_Revenge), and the Atari 2600 port of Pac-Man (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pac-Man_%28Atari_2600%29).
Nintendo's response to quality and consumer confidence issues was their licensing scheme, the 10NES chip, and the seal.

[punkgorilla]

I'm quite curious to know what the people here think Nintendo need to do in order to please the hardcore. I often hear comments like this: I think it's because the users on Hyper aren't complete dumbshits that are stupid enough to fall for Nintendo's false promises and illusions of innovation anymore.
But I rarely hear evidence to support it. So I guess what I'm asking is why do people find the Wii to be so offensively awful and what do you think can change it?

[SOX]

Release more traditional games (well I like different genres but casual fitness isn't one of them) with a decent online service and dump the waggle

[MacGuyver]

I'll always bring out the Wii when I'm having a games night simply because I reckon it's got some good 4 player split screen games on it like Mario Kart and Smash Brothers. Wii Sports (and now Resort) always get a good look in especially if there are some people present who don't play games much. Plus the Wii plays any multi player Cube games that I have so I don't need to lug my Cube around as well.

But I spend most of my time on the 360 for single player games.

[punkgorilla]

Release more traditional games (well I like different genres but casual fitness isn't one of them) with a decent online service and dump the waggle

Could they feasibly make traditional games sucessfully though? Nintendo were losing fans since releasing the NES right up until the Wii. The Gamecube was a low as they could get (remember, it was the GBA that was keeping Nintendo in the black at the time, and even that wasn't enough sometimes.) Traditional games weren't working for them then and it's less likely they will work now.

[Fenrir]

I'm quite curious to know what the people here think Nintendo need to do in order to please the hardcore. I often hear comments like this:
But I rarely hear evidence to support it. So I guess what I'm asking is why do people find the Wii to be so offensively awful and what do you think can change it?
Release more traditional games (well I like different genres but casual fitness isn't one of them) with a decent online service and dump the waggle
^Pretty much this.

Also, this (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/cc/The-legend-of-zelda-wii-E32009.jpg).
The artwork, and the apparent focus on developing new gameplay and dungeon designs rather than 3 years of hype media, seem to tentatively indicate that the next Zelda could make up for absolutely everything.

The thing is, practically everyone agreed that the traditional formulae needed a bit of a shake-up. The other guys are seemingly content putting out consoles which require budgets in the tens of millions of dollars to develop for, and not only is that unsustainable, but the majority of the games that do get the go-ahead are quite "safe" and unoriginal, if not completely generic crap. Therefore the premise of the Wii, ignoring the graphics race, reducing financial burdens by orders of magnitude, and bringing the focus back to gameplay and innovation, was (is) brilliant.
Unfortunately developers (and Nintendo) have mistaken "innovation" for this casual crap, and in the confusion the cries for gamers' games have turned into calls for a return to "traditional" gaming. This may be productive by the Wii's standards - possibly even the humble GameCube saw more "hardcore" action than the Wii - but it's not the mythical city on the hill that Aquinas spoke of.

In short: new gameplay that gamers can sink their teeth into, not inherently shallow casual gameplay designed for 5 hours spread over a year. It should be feasible to fund indie developers with fresh gameplay ideas on this platform, so start doing that.

[Stevorooni]

Could they feasibly make traditional games sucessfully though? Nintendo were losing fans since releasing the NES right up until the Wii. The Gamecube was a low as they could get (remember, it was the GBA that was keeping Nintendo in the black at the time, and even that wasn't enough sometimes.) Traditional games weren't working for them then and it's less likely they will work now.

It doesn't help that they only make 2 in house games per year if we're lucky. Plus the Gamecube was bright purple by default and didn't play DVDs back when everyone wanted a DVD player.

[SOX]

Another thing that pissed me off is when instead of releasing new games they have been repackaging games I already had bought for my GCN and selling them AGAIN

[Fenrir]

Could they feasibly make traditional games sucessfully though? Nintendo were losing fans since releasing the NES right up until the Wii. The Gamecube was a low as they could get (remember, it was the GBA that was keeping Nintendo in the black at the time, and even that wasn't enough sometimes.) Traditional games weren't working for them then and it's less likely they will work now.
Traditional games weren't actually the problem there. The SNES lost ground only because the NES relatively held practically the whole market, and the console gaming market seemed to pretty much aim for a two-console equilibrium; the N64 lost more ground because a third, well-marketed console came along, developers didn't like cartridges, and gamers loved piracy; and the Cube lost more ground still because another, more monolithic competitor came in and splashed money everywhere, and, well, the Cube was a bit of a marketing disaster.
The traditional games, though, held a rabidly obsessed cult following of fans who never considered swaying allegiance (and actually bought the idea of allegiance to a games console) even at the worst of times. The Gameboy line and Pokemon aside, traditional games (and their fans) were a brilliant safety net.

Also keep in mind that pretty much all that time, Nintendo were still clearing respectable annual profits.

[aubergine]

That's exactly right. I have always had more respect for Nintendo's business model of selling hardware at a profit (even a small one) because I consider megalith Sony and Microsoft's selling hardware below cost to be an anti-competitive practice and one which, frankly, puts less onus on them to innovate.

I'm just stunned that their astonishing success with Wii and DS has seen their in house development seem to dry up altogether instead of growing, the partnerships they had during GCN disappear, their customer service (esp in Australia) hit an all time low for ANY of the big three companies and for just a general pall of fecal atmosphere decend over their whole product line. The ****ers can't even be bothered putting out different coloured Wii remotes. The "profitable" purple lunchbox company have a flagship console which is deliberately bland.

I'm not certain what they could do at this point to turn my opinion around. It wouldn't take much, unlike Sony. Sony are improving in my estimations though simply for having gotten rid of some of the villians and for the remaining ones having shut their stupid mouths for at least 12 months.

[Stevorooni]

Sony are improving in my estimations though simply for having gotten rid of some of the villians and for the remaining ones having shut their stupid mouths for at least 12 months.

Then they go and announce that the PSP Go will be $450 (http://www.kotaku.com.au/2009/08/pspgo-is-just-50-cheaper-than-the-ps3/) in Australia

[SOX]

Then they go and announce that the PSP Go will be $450 (http://www.kotaku.com.au/2009/08/pspgo-is-just-50-cheaper-than-the-ps3/) in Australia

Wow. I would never of imagined a console I bought like 4-5 years ago would cost more now than it did then.

[aubergine]

Then they go and announce that the PSP Go will be $450 (http://www.kotaku.com.au/2009/08/pspgo-is-just-50-cheaper-than-the-ps3/) in Australia

I said Sony were improving in my estimations. I should have qualified that, instead of bottom-crawling the Turd Sea they are now floating closer to the surface, ready to pull unsuspecting people into their self-propogating diorehea with them. At some point they may evolve even further and crawl out onto land, but this occurs over thousands of years and not all people even believe in evolution and science and stuff.

[Nic Xtreme]

Yeah, there isn't much conversation in here simply because people aren't interested in Nintendo. I mean, I don't blame then, I know my #1 played console this year is the Xbox 360 - and I should point out that time is usually made up on the best console this generation, the Xbox Live Arcade! (soon to affirm this place with the release of Perfect Dark). Also, let's face it - the Wii isn't a very social console. I do enjoy local multiplayer quite a bit but its online is shit, and a lot of gaming discussion does stem from great, social online experiences.

Thing is, I do love my Wii, and I do play it a lot, and I think this year has been a great year (THOUGH NOT AS GREAT AS NEXT YEAR METROID OTHER M AND MONSTER HUNTER AND SAKURA WARS AND FRAGILE OMG), and I have bought or intend to buy plenty of games released this year, including retail and digital releases.

LIST TIME This year, we've had:

~ Another Code R: Journey of Lost Memories (Well, a UK import)
~ Boom Blox Bash Party
~ Broken Sword: The Shadow of the Templar (Director's Cut)
~ Dawn of Discovery
~ Deadly Creatures
~ EA Sports Grand Slam Tennis
~ House of the Dead: Overkill
~ Klonoa
~ Let's Tap
~ Little King's Story
~ MadWorld
~ Punch-Out!! (Import/Soon-to-be-local)
~ Tiger Woods PGA Tour 10
~ Wii Sports Resort

Later on, we are getting:

~ A Boy and His Blob
~ Cursed Mountain
~ Dead Space: Extraction
~ Endless Ocean 2
~ Jambo! Safari Animal Rescue :D
~ Metroid Prime Trilogy
~ New Super Mario Bros. Wii
~ Resident Evil: The Darkside Chronicles
~ Silent Hill: Shattered Memories
~ Sin & Punishment 2
~ Spyborgs
~ Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World
~ Tatsunoko vs. Capcom: Ultimate All Stars
~ Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Smash-Up
~ Wii Fit Plus

...and that's not including all of the excellent Virtual Console and WiiWare releases (BONSAI BARBER)! For me, there are plenty of quality games there to experience, and I really don't know when I'll have the chance to play them all ;_;

[Blob]

Release more traditional games (well I like different genres but casual fitness isn't one of them) with a decent online service and dump the waggle

Dump the waggle? I think that Nintendos controller is brilliant for sports games, shooters and sword fighting (Red Steel 2) kind of stuff. Possibly even driving games for those who actually like that setup. Waggle has its place but waggle for waggles sake is annoying. Say if Nintendo had slapped a GC controller in the box with the Wii, developers would know that the consumer has options and not just rely on waggle to replace buttons.

Nintendos online needs to desperately change too.

[SOX]

Yeah, there isn't much conversation in here simply because people aren't interested in Nintendo.

I don't think that is the vibe at all, I think everyone is sick of Nintendo not being interested in us.

[Nic Xtreme]

I don't think that is the vibe at all, I think everyone is sick of Nintendo not being interested in us.

Ah, you're right, that is the current vibe.

[SOX]

Ah, you're right, that is the current vibe.
That's alright it's an easy mistake to make.

[Blue]

LIST TIME This year, we've had:

~ Another Code R: Journey of Lost Memories (Well, a UK import)
~ Boom Blox Bash Party
~ Broken Sword: The Shadow of the Templar (Director's Cut)
~ Dawn of Discovery
~ Deadly Creatures
~ EA Sports Grand Slam Tennis
~ House of the Dead: Overkill
~ Klonoa
~ Let's Tap
~ Little King's Story
~ MadWorld
~ Punch-Out!! (Import/Soon-to-be-local)
~ Tiger Woods PGA Tour 10
~ Wii Sports Resort

Later on, we are getting:

~ A Boy and His Blob
~ Cursed Mountain
~ Dead Space: Extraction
~ Endless Ocean 2
~ Jambo! Safari Animal Rescue :D
~ Metroid Prime Trilogy
~ New Super Mario Bros. Wii
~ Resident Evil: The Darkside Chronicles
~ Silent Hill: Shattered Memories
~ Sin & Punishment 2
~ Spyborgs
~ Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World
~ Tatsunoko vs. Capcom: Ultimate All Stars
~ Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Smash-Up
~ Wii Fit Plus

...and that's not including all of the excellent Virtual Console and WiiWare releases (BONSAI BARBER)! For me, there are plenty of quality games there to experience, and I really don't know when I'll have the chance to play them all ;_;I have bolded the two games that I may possibly buy at some point. The rest are just rehashes, Wiimakes, downgrades, gimmicks, sequels …

Not that Tiger Woods and Mario aren't, but Tiger seems to have controls that work, and NSMB is 2D Mario, so I can justify them. Having said that, I still probably won't bother to purchase them, because I'll get more playtime out of a 360 game that has more depth.

[Cicada]

I'd say this whole notion of Nintendo 'abandoning' the traditional gamer is largely overblown, as, let's face it, gamers as a community are highly prone to hyperbole. Their release schedule looks pretty much the same as it has for any console, actually, the Wii end up with 2 Zelda titles (admittedly one a port), 2 Metroid titles, 2 3D and 2 2D Mario titles. The real issue is the stream of anaerobic (or aerobic LOL EXERCISE) scum that is third party output. It seems they really just didn't see it coming, and were prepared to forgo Nintendo (the success of the DS should have clued them in, but Nintendo going all secret and cryptic vis a vis la Revolutione probably didn't help). Gabe Newell of Valve has said that the Wii was a massive missed opportunity for them. Hilariously, Sony and Microsoft's motion control endeavours will benefit from Nintendo laying the early groundwork.

I'll agree with the thought that having only a Wii would be a bit limiting, even though I seem to play mine way more than most of you. As it happens, my Wii is my only home console... but I also have a PC. I struggle to think of any 360 game I want that I can't experience with superior everything on the PC, but there's a handful of PS3 ones.

[Jay]

I have bolded the two games that I may possibly buy at some point. The rest are just rehashes, Wiimakes, downgrades, gimmicks, sequels …

Not that Tiger Woods and Mario aren't, but Tiger seems to have controls that work, and NSMB is 2D Mario, so I can justify them. Having said that, I still probably won't bother to purchase them, because I'll get more playtime out of a 360 game that has more depth.

**** me your sweeping statements cut you out of a lot of great gaming.

[Blue]

**** me your sweeping statements cut you out of a lot of great gaming.No, they allow me to avoid a lot of average, okay, and even good gaming.

I don't have the time, money, or even the inclination to play very many games nowadays. Why am I going to waste my time with ****ing Boom Blox, Wii Fit, or Spyborgs. They're nothing spectacular, or what I'd even describe as good. Then there's Klonoa, Silent Hill, Resident Evil, Punch Out, Metroid … ****, wait just a second, I've played all of these games ten ****ing years ago!

Some people settle for mediocre, repetitive shit. Some people settle for 'pretty good'. But if I'm going to play a game, it needs to be one of the best ten games released this year. And I guarantee that none of them will be on the Wii.

[Jay]

For someone who claims to have so little time for gaming these days you seem to have a lot of time to make sweeping statements about a bunch of games you, by your own admission, have never played.

[aubergine]

I get surprised by, for example, no port of Burnout 3, or indeed anything else from third parties from last gen that the Wii could succeed with. Even the third parties who supported gcn seem to have dumped the Wii, despite the Wii's obvious success. MorroWii and other ports would likely succeed on it and fill out it's empty catalogue.

I'm afraid WhyMe's list contains no "killer apps" or whatever they are called these days, they are games I might look at in between big releases, but there ARE no big releases. Metroid Prime Trilogy is the nearest thing but is not a system seller, I've played all those games. A lot.

[Blue]

For someone who claims to have so little time for gaming these days you seem to have a lot of time to make sweeping statements about a bunch of games you, by your own admission, have never played.You didn't refute any of the points I made in that last post, so this argument is pretty much pointless. If you say "sweeping statements" one more ****ing time, I'm going to find this fabled 'ignore' function, and put it to good use …

I've got time for gaming, if the game is worth playing over other activities. Most of the games on Wii are eclipsed by watching an episode of Friends, posting on Hyper, or readjusting my balls. There is no artistic merit in any of these games, whereas Nintendo used to craft engaging, artistic experiences. Don't say MadWorld or Deadly Creatures, they're decidedly average games by all accounts.

Anyway, as Aubergine said, none of the big third party, multi-platform releases are worth buying on Wii (except the aforementioned Tiger). That cuts out a lot of the interest, and we're left with downgrades, rehashes, and original projects with a gimmicky control system or a decidedly limited scope.

SSX Tricky on PS2 is more enjoyable than SSX Blur on Wii.

[FrozenSoul80]

What Nintendo need is some more new franchises that aren't bloody WiiSport and friends. I've played a lot of Mario, Zelda and Metroid over the past 20 years, I'm ready for something new.

Also, Nintendo's game quality has taken a huge slip. I was convinced the GameCube had some of the best games of last generation. I stuck by it faithfully until the end. But sadly the Wii's games have left me feeling cold and unfulfilled and I'm afraid I am no longer Nintendo's key market. It feels like a close childhood friend has left me for a girlfriend.

[Blue]

LttP/OoT/MM>WW>TP>PH>ST

The Zelda games sum up Nintendo's slide as far as I'm concerned.

GameCube brought us Melee, Luigi's Mansion, Pikmin, Metroid Prime, Wind Waker. Games that took chances.

[FrozenSoul80]

GameCube brought us Melee, Luigi's Mansion, Pikmin, Metroid Prime, Wind Waker. Games that took chances.

With the exception of Pikmin (which I never got around to playing), I loved every one of those games to death. Even Luigi's Mansion, which isn't that great, made me want to play it more than any of Nintendo's recent offerings.

[Munky]

That's exactly right. I have always had more respect for Nintendo's business model of selling hardware at a profit (even a small one) because I consider megalith Sony and Microsoft's selling hardware below cost to be an anti-competitive practice and one which, frankly, puts less onus on them to innovate.


There is nothing wrong with selling hardware at a loss and accessories at a profit.

IMO it does encourage innovation since M$ and Sony require killer apps and service in order to make a profit.

How else could you release such a piece of shit hardware like the XBox 360 and still have people buy it? I love my 360 despite having to send it back to MS for repairs.

Anti competitive is selling items at loss in order to ship totally unrelated items at a profit.

[JubeiSaotome]

You see, WhyMe's list of good games would be double on PS3 and triple to quadruple on 360. Again, why it was a moronic move of nintendo to stick with the Friend Codes system (Brings in less online gamers) and the lack of a HDD (Less DLC & VC games people are willing to buy, because of space).

[Blue]

With the exception of Pikmin (which I never got around to playing), I loved every one of those games to death. Even Luigi's Mansion, which isn't that great, made me want to play it more than any of Nintendo's recent offerings.But you have played Pikmin 2, right? … Right? :p If not, I strongly recommend grabbing Pikmin 2 the next time you see it. It really is a great game, and was one of the shining lights of the GameCube era. I've only ever played each of those games once, but I enjoyed them all, and they were unique. Luigi's was just refreshing; a cool little side-project. It had great atmosphere and character. When I see a copy again, I'll be buying it.

I didn't actually finish MP, the controls shat me up the wall, but Phendrana Drifts is unforgettable. I may buy the MP1 remake. Corruption is shit. The opening Halo-esque sequence was rubbish, and the first world failed to impress. The original has the magic.

Wind Waker wasn't perfect, and the grid-based islands were a bit naff, but it had something that Twilight Princess didn't have. TP seemed like it would be incredible, but it just didn't work out that way. Maybe if it had come out a couple of years earlier, it would be more fondly remembered.

Despite the fact that it was criticised quite strongly, Super Mario Sunshine remains my favourite 3D Mario game by far. Again, the atmosphere was something different.

Looking at it now, with the GameCube and Dreamcast getting a bit of overdue appreciation, the previous generation really did spoil us. Fully-realised 3D (as opposed to the muddy-textured N64 and wobbly-textured PSX) across four consoles which each had a slew of fantastic exclusives. Also, each console had character, something that the current generation consoles really do lack.

[AranchineD]

See, I'm playing the original Metroid Prime right now, and I don't think it's all that great to be honest. >_> Good but not spectacular like I was expecting it to be. Perhaps consider this me falling into the trap of hyping the game up based on everyone else's opinion of it.

I do love Wind Waker though, almost my favourite Zelda game, and Super Mario Sunshine too is worthy of being considered the top of the 3D Mario games.

[Blue]

See, I'm playing the original Metroid Prime right now, and I don't think it's all that great to be honest. >_> Good but not spectacular like I was expecting it to be. Perhaps consider this me falling into the trap of hyping the game up based on everyone else's opinion of it.

I do love Wind Waker though, almost my favourite Zelda game, and Super Mario Sunshine too is worthy of being considered the top of the 3D Mario games.It had its faults. Bear in mind that at the time it looked incredible. It was the best-looking console game I'd ever played.

[AranchineD]

Oh, I still think it does look amazing, I was speaking purely on gameplay terms.

[Blue]

Oh, I still think it does look amazing, I was speaking purely on gameplay terms.The art direction is just … ****ing spectacular, the attention to detail astounding.

Well, consider then the pure novelty of a 3D, FPS Metroid game? We're tired of the idea now, but back then it was worth putting up with the niggles for. Things like the respawning enemies were left in there to make it feel more Metroidey, too. They could be considered weak elements in the design, because they are outdated.

The main problem is that the controls are shit. They really are hugely, awkwardly, Resident Evilly, shit. If they'd just admitted that it was an FPS and not a platformer, and given it some proper FPS controls, then it would have been much better. Dual-thumbstick control would be delightful, but I'll just buy it on Wii oneday and use the pointer..

[AranchineD]

Well I posted in greater detail in the "What are you playing" thread why I'm not completely loving it (even though I'm still enjoying it), but basically, I'm really not digging the lack of direction of the gameplay and story. I feel like I'm just wandering up stumbling upon power ups and such not because of any real reason relevant to the game or its plot, but because that's just what you're "meant" to do in a Metroid game except, like you said, this time with the novelty of it all being in 3D.

[FrozenSoul80]

See, I'm playing the original Metroid Prime right now, and I don't think it's all that great to be honest. >_> Good but not spectacular like I was expecting it to be. Perhaps consider this me falling into the trap of hyping the game up based on everyone else's opinion of it.

After watching my brother finish it, I never bothered to complete the game myself, but it is still a wonderful virtual world. I might prefer my Metroids to be sidescrollers, but it doesn't stop Prime from being a very atmospheric place to just run around in.

[punkgorilla]

GameCube brought us Melee, Luigi's Mansion, Pikmin, Metroid Prime, Wind Waker. Games that took chances.

To be fair, building a console based on motion control was a massive chance. The first 'casual' games were also a massive chance. They were pursuing a market which didn't even exist.

Wind Waker wasn't perfect, and the grid-based islands were a bit naff, but it had something that Twilight Princess didn't have. TP seemed like it would be incredible, but it just didn't work out that way. Maybe if it had come out a couple of years earlier, it would be more fondly remembered.
I think the biggest problem that Twilight Princess had was that it had no unique identity or purpose. It just kind of felt like Nintendo made a Zelda game because they just felt like they had some obligation to, whereas previous Zeldas (excluding the Capcom developed spinoffs) have all had real reason to exist.

I guess it also didn't help when everyone started to complain that they wanted a 'mature' Zelda before, during and after Wind Wakers release.

[Watchers]

The Zelda: Oracles games existed to be awesome.

[Nic Xtreme]

You see, WhyMe's list of good games would be double on PS3 and triple to quadruple on 360. Again, why it was a moronic move of nintendo to stick with the Friend Codes system (Brings in less online gamers) and the lack of a HDD (Less DLC & VC games people are willing to buy, because of space).

Hahaha, if I threw in Digital Downloads for all three systems, the 360's list would be a similar size, maybe a touch bigger - the 360 has had a fairly weak year in terms of retail releases IMO - and the PS3s would be about an eighth of the size. The PS3's best is yet to come, and even then it will be quality not quantity!

[FrozenSoul80]

Big problem with Twilight Princess was it was very, very easy.

[Blue]

Well I posted in greater detail in the "What are you playing" thread why I'm not completely loving it (even though I'm still enjoying it), but basically, I'm really not digging the lack of direction of the gameplay and story. I feel like I'm just wandering up stumbling upon power ups and such not because of any real reason relevant to the game or its plot, but because that's just what you're "meant" to do in a Metroid game except, like you said, this time with the novelty of it all being in 3D.That's the thing, though. If they'd changed the 'wandering around alone and aimless' design, people would have complained that it wasn't a proper Metroid game, and that it was pandering to a different audience. Metroid has always been about exploring, trying only to find the next powerup to open that door. That's the point of it. It may be a bit dull at times, but it's the point of the franchise.

Twilight Princess was too easy, yeah. I got stuck a few times in OoT. It took me years to finish it. Granted, I was younger, but it really was an achievement when I bested it. TP was a stroll. It also seemed to be there as the arbitrary 'mature Zelda' everybody wanted. But I don't think they pushed it far enough; Majora's Mask was much darker. Twilight Princess should have been slightly sinister, and harder.

@ punkgorilla: The Wii hardware took a chance, one that I don't think paid off, in that it really isn't very good at what it does. The games, on the other hand, have played it incredibly safe, to their detriment. Dated designs with lackluster controls. The best Wii games don't use the controls much at all. Because while people are trying to make the controls work, they're not innovating as far as the actual design goes.

[AranchineD]

That's the thing, though. If they'd changed the 'wandering around alone and aimless' design, people would have complained that it wasn't a proper Metroid game, and that it was pandering to a different audience. Metroid has always been about exploring, trying only to find the next powerup to open that door. That's the point of it. It may be a bit dull at times, but it's the point of the franchise.

Anyone who says that is talking bull though, as I pointed out in my posts in the WAUP thread (:cool:), Metroid Fusion made finding the power ups an integral part of the story, at least for my mind, and though if you just looked at it gameplay wise it was still doing the same thing you always do in Metroid, the setting of Fusion, along with the way you're constantly hooking up to ADAM to review what you're meant to be doing or what you should be doing next really motivated me to continue on in the game.

But most importantly, I thought the game still let you explore as much as you would have in any of the other games, but with a clear final destination in mind, in my opinion, it made the whole thing a more enjoyable package.

(And obviously, as you can tell from my ranting, Fusion is my favourite Metroid game. :D)

[Blue]

Anyone who says that is talking bull though, as I pointed out in my posts in the WAUP thread (:cool:), Metroid Fusion made finding the power ups an integral part of the story, at least for my mind, and though if you just looked at it gameplay wise it was still doing the same thing you always do in Metroid, the setting of Fusion, along with the way you're constantly hooking up to ADAM to review what you're meant to be doing or what you should be doing next really motivated me to continue on in the game.

But most importantly, I thought the game still let you explore as much as you would have in any of the other games, but with a clear final destination in mind, in my opinion, it made the whole thing a more enjoyable package.

(And obviously, as you can tell from my ranting, Fusion is my favourite Metroid game. :D)Yeah, I thought Fusion was shit. :p

… Yet it's the only Metroid game that I've ever finished! Weird.

[Fenrir]

The main problem is that the controls are shit.
^This. The second-last big boss was a nightmare, simply because Samus wouldn't ****ing move.

Probably didn't help that the visuals started to seem a bit messy towards the end, either.

To be fair, building a console based on motion control was a massive chance. The first 'casual' games were also a massive chance. They were pursuing a market which didn't even exist.
Didn't I cover this before? We want innovative "hardcore" gamers' games, that third breed of game you're not mentioning. It seems like to so many people, only "traditional" games and "casual" games are possible - this is frustrating as all hell.

I think the biggest problem that Twilight Princess had was that it had no unique identity or purpose. It just kind of felt like Nintendo made a Zelda game because they just felt like they had some obligation to, whereas previous Zeldas (excluding the Capcom developed spinoffs) have all had real reason to exist.
I don't think so. TP was an epic game with many issues, but purpose wasn't one of them.

I guess it also didn't help when everyone started to complain that they wanted a 'mature' Zelda before, during and after Wind Wakers release.
Didn't work, though - TP looks like OoT mutilated by Pixar.
Practically everything, including (perhaps especially) the animations, has an exaggerated, curved appearance, like something from an animated film, and it breaks any grittiness or impact that otherwise would've worked very well. Epona I found really jarring - ridiculous build, animated like something from a cartoon.

I'm only hoping the early artwork for the new Wii Zelda is an indication of what's to come. It *looks* like they've hardened up Link's appearance, at least.

[SOX]

Anyone wanting to play a mature Zelda should play Shadow of the Colossus. Epona ain't got shit on Agro!

[Stevorooni]

I read that Jay, you can't delete it from my mind!

[punkgorilla]

That's the thing, though. If they'd changed the 'wandering around alone and aimless' design, people would have complained that it wasn't a proper Metroid game, and that it was pandering to a different audience.
Exactly what happened with Corruption. All of its faults stem from deviating from the Metroid template and people were quick to notice. Which really makes me worry about Other M.

Didn't I cover this before? We want innovative "hardcore" gamers' games, that third breed of game you're not mentioning. It seems like to so many people, only "traditional" games and "casual" games are possible - this is frustrating as all hell.
I didn't mention different 'breeds' of games because it didn't really have much to do with my point. I was just trying to say that back in 2006 everything that Nintendo were doing was a massive chance. That hardware was a risk, as was most of the software. And remember that at the time we were to believe that there would be plenty for the hardcore. But, as Blue already said, it hasn't really paid off for them.

I think part of the problem of people only referring to traditional and casual, while not mentioning hardcore games comes from a lack of clear definition as to what hardcore means. It seems to mean a completely different thing from person to person, which makes talking about it very difficult. For example, I remember a time when it seemed unanimous that the hardcore laughed at 'kiddy' games like Mario and Zelda and would only play 'mature' games like Quake or Doom. But now we are seeing people saying that they want to see hardcore games like Mario and Zelda.

[Blue]

Exactly what happened with Corruption. All of its faults stem from deviating from the Metroid template and people were quick to notice. Which really makes me worry about Other M.

[…]

For example, I remember a time when it seemed unanimous that the hardcore laughed at 'kiddy' games like Mario and Zelda and would only play 'mature' games like Quake or Doom. But now we are seeing people saying that they want to see hardcore games like Mario and Zelda.Yeah, when I was playing Corruption, I was thinking to myself "I really wish I was just playing Halo 3 instead", because the design had been altered too much from the original. If I'm not playing a proper Metroid game, I'm just playing an FPS, and as an FPS it isn't that great.

Your second point is true; I've never considered the Mario franchise to be at all 'core'. Everyone with a Nintendo buys Mario. Everyone had it on the SNES, everyone has it on the Wii. It has one of the broadest audiences of all franchises. Then, some would consider Halo 3 to be for hardcore gamers, being an online FPS, but on the other hand, everyone plays it.

My definition of casual gamers comes from my friend Rob. He's bought an XBOX 360, and has only bought three games: GTAIV, FIFA 09 and GH:WT. Oh, and recently COD:WaW for his sister. Those are all, to me, the kind of games that a casual gamer will play, and all offline, whereas he wouldn't touch Mario or Halo, and never liked MGS2.

[aubergine]

I disagree. Mario is hardcore! I'm not even joking.

From Mario Bros to Super Mario Bros and it's 3 direct sequels, each game introduced layers of complexity. Super Mario Bros 3, which to my understanding was the highest selling game of all time for a long time (and possibly still is unless you count Wii Sports) on the back of the NES's peak install base and hit kids move The Wizard, had map screens and item management and flying and all manner of complex shit going on, yet still only two buttons and a d-pad.

Mario World, apart from being native to a console which sold less than the NES, introduced much more complexity than SMB3 given that its controller had three times as many buttons on it. Mario 64 introduced VASTLY more complexity with its 10+ buttons, analogue stick etc, in a 3-D enviroment (moving the choice of direction from up-down-left-right to basically infinite.)

I didn't even play Mario 64 at the time, but I did have a crack at Mario Sunshine which I'd bought for my nephew, remembering my own enjoyment of the first three games. Unfortunately he was pre-reading and Mario Sunshine requires reading. It's also just too ****ing complicated, stupidly difficult game. They were making a game for the hardcore fans of EXTREME PLATFORMING. Or something.

Mario Galaxy was far better designed, although I'm personally against games having a full half of the levels being optional. I had the same issue with New Super Mario Bros, which for me was a proper return the the series roots and something I could actually enjoy, but it was over too quickly because once I'd reached the 'end' of the game I had no particular desire to complete the heap of levels I didn't even have to complete to get there.

My gaming habits would mark me as a casual I would think but I'm too opinionated to really carry it off. I doubt a casual person would be hanging out for Batman Arkham Asylum to come out. They MIGHT have hung out for Batman Begins to come out because they didn't know beforehand that it would be a shit game.

[Blue]

Casual people don't 'hang out' for games. The games come out on shelves, they see the ads for them, and they buy them. WHy would Arkham be any different to Begins? A Batman game comes out, and casual audiences buy it. Whether it's decent or not is of little consequence.

You seem to have missed the entire point of my previous post. I don't get your point about Mario 64 being some incredibly complex game; I'd argue it was simpler than SMB3 or SMW. You run and jump in 3D. But the complexity of a game doesn't have anything to do with whether it's a game for 'hardcore' audiences. Shadow of the Colossus is a very simple game, but it is also a very niche game, one that was played only by core gamers.

Mario is in no way a hardcore franchise. Casual gamers see it on the shelves and buy it, because they know what to expect from it. The same goes for COD, GH or GTA. They see Pikmin or Metroid, and they probably don't buy them, because they are games that are, for whatever reason, more popular with core gamers.

[Zeph101]

Casual people don't 'hang out' for games. The games come out on shelves, they see the ads for them, and they buy them.

Couldn't agree with you more. My perception of what defines 'casual' and 'hardcore' gamers is in how they perceive the whole concept of video games in general. I see the casual consumer crowd as having a more lax attitude while the hardcore eagerly await and and keep up to date with the latest releases and news, or at least keep a steady interest. The genres of games you play don't contribute to this IMO any more than genres of music or movies do.

[Spudzilla]

xbox rulez

wii droolz

[aubergine]

You seem to have missed the entire point of my previous post. I don't get your point about Mario 64 being some incredibly complex game; I'd argue it was simpler than SMB3 or SMW. You run and jump in 3D. But the complexity of a game doesn't have anything to do with whether it's a game for 'hardcore' audiences. Shadow of the Colossus is a very simple game, but it is also a very niche game, one that was played only by core gamers.

Mario is in no way a hardcore franchise. Casual gamers see it on the shelves and buy it, because they know what to expect from it. The same goes for COD, GH or GTA. They see Pikmin or Metroid, and they probably don't buy them, because they are games that are, for whatever reason, more popular with core gamers.

It would probably be more useful to divide the consumers into people who purchase the games for themselves and people who purchase them for their kids or grandkids. Both are potent markets and, while there is a lot of crossover (eg 'core' gamers buy Mario and Halo for themselves but they'res also highly recognised brands that reach parents) if there's anything which is a 'core only' game it's probably PC games (what aren't Sims) and the odd thing like Braid.

My point about Mario - and I assure you, Mario 64 is much more complex to a user than Super Mario Bros - is that there is a relationship between added complexity and lowering sales, because all of Mario's adventures have sold less than the previous one. You could say this is due to their hardware selling less, but the software is meant to sell the systems.

You can argue if you want that you didn't personaly find Mario 64 very hard, being a core /niche gamer that's highly likely. But Nintendo especially realised the relationship between scaling complexity and hardware/software sales. This was key to their design philosphy with the Wii remote - to move on from the 20-button controller which they themselves had such a hand in making the standard, (losing consumers every single time from NES-GCN) towards a controller which was instantly familiar and comforting to that lost demographic (a remote control) yet also different enough to capture people's imaginations. It was a moment of inspired genius and deserves the rapturous success that it's earned them.

It's just a shame, to get back to the thread topic, that the games are shit and too rarely made good on the promise.

[banjoeskimo]

My general level of indifference toward Nintendo pretty much stems from three things...

Good is Good, Great is Better - Blue summed it up pretty well earlier, but it bears repeating. There's a reasonable amount of "good" or decent titles out on the Wii, and much of that content released during the first year or so I own. But I have all three consoles now, and a limited amount of money. I simply don't see the point in settling for an "okay" gaming experience when the same amount of money is going to get me what usually end up being some of my favourite games. I feel like the last truly brilliant, genre defining game we got from Nintendo was Super Mario Galaxy, and that was almost 2 years ago. This goes for DLC titles as well. While the VC is certainly respectable, most of the classic games I want to play I already own or have played thoroughly. I'm mostly looking for new content, and with the likes of PixelJunk, Braid, Shadow Complex, Castle Crashers and Flower going for similar prices to WiiWare content, I don't feel like I'm missing much.

If I had more money to work with, or more time, I'd probably buy more Wii games. But as it stands, I'm getting between 12 or so games a year that I absolutely love, many of which continue to keep me entertained with new DLC. I'm simply just not starved for games. If the Wii's going to keep me interested I'm going to have to see some truly exceptional content. For the record, I haven't bought a Wii game in about 18 months. Metroid Prime Trilogy, Dead Space Extraction and possibly NSMB Wii will be the first titles I've picked up in a long time.

Poorly Implemented Technology - This is a problem on multiple fronts. A lot of the motion tech I encounter just isn't that well done, and in the few examples where it is (Wii Fit, Sports Resort) they're unfortunately not games that interest me a whole lot. Add in an absolute f---ing joke of an online service and it starts to add up. Yeah, I'm still pissed that Smash Brawl is unplayable online and Mario Kart didn't have voice chat. The lack of a persistent friends list also really hurts the experience. I realise Nintendo wants to emphasise local gaming, but that doesn't mean they have to give online the shaft. Also, while it's not a dealbreaker, if a game comes out on multiple platforms, let's be honest here; motion control usually adds jackshit, and I'd much rather the better image quality of an HD console.

Lack of Value - When the Wii launched, Nintendo's argument was that the older tech was a response to the expense and excesses of HD gaming, that would provide a viable and cost effective solution for families. Well, it's 2009 now, and the Wii is only $50 cheaper than either of the HD consoles in the US. Add in the peripherals, and the fact that many of the premiere games have yet to be discounted and what I'm left with is a situation where for the same money, I can get a better console, with a better library of games and backed by better technology. Anyone paying full price for a Wii at this point is pretty much paying an idiot tax, and it's straight up bullshit that they haven't price dropped by now.

Roll all those three into one? That's why I'm not talking about the Wii right now. There's just too few reasons to care and I'm having a better time at a better price elsewhere.

[Blue]

Yep, that sums it up pretty well!

[Grubdog]

I'm playing my Wii more than ever with LKS and Kororinpa 2. Sadly hardly anybody owns them so not much point in talking to myself. *shrug*

[borgster101]

It's the case with many Wii games that are actually good .. Another Code R comes to mind as well .. but Nintendo didn't even release it outside of Japan and Europe so again no one talks about it.

[Spazzallo]

My Wii would have been sold by now if my mum didn't buy herself the Wii Fit. The only thing I use the Wii for now days is to play the occasional Brawl match with mates or to play a Gamecube version of Mario Party.

I've been a Nintendo Fanboy since I was born but ever since I got my XBox 360 last year I realised a lot of the games I was missing out on.

When I heard somebody had recently bought a N64 or a GCN I was genuinly excited for them but when I hear another of my friends familys got a Wii for Christmas I just feel sorry for them. It's a joke and long-time Nintendo fans should be ashamed of what has happened to a once great company.

[Grubdog]

The only people who should be ashamed are those posting on a gaming forum about how crap games are.

Oh yeah I played through Another Code R recently as well. :D SO ****ing awesome. It's got such an awesome unique atmosphere that makes it stand out on its own even from the original. Went back and played Two Memories after I beat it, the two compliment each other perfectly.

[borgster101]

LOL .. why would fans need to feel ashamed? It's pretty simple, Nintendo was doing the "we're all about the games" for generations, and each generation their sales performance weakened, clearly it wasn't working. The only choice they had was to change their approach, enter the Wii and it worked wonders for them.

If the "core gamers" who loved Nintendo over the generations don't find they are getting their fix anymore with Wii, there's other consoles to choose from, there's no need to feel ashamed or embarrased, Nintendo did what they needed to do to stay in business and it worked, pretty simple.

That said, I've found the Wii to be great, there's lots of great games on the system that I have enjoyed and more to come .. most of them are lesser known niche titles however, that more supposedly "core gamers" should actually try out.

[Blue]

I'm ashamed to have bought one. I fell for the bullshit, and wasted a stack of cash.

The niche titles you're talking about aren't as good as the best titles on the XBOX 360. They might be good as far as the Wii library goes, but they can't stack up against the quality of the games on 'proper' consoles.

[aubergine]

See Eibach's post for most everything I'd say.

I'm not "ashamed" to have bought one - the initial premise and design of the Wii required investigation. And as for borgsters post, I just can't see why they couldn't have devoted resources to their perennially successful "games for gamers" while ALSO developing the Wii Fits etc.

As I wrote a long while back, I suspect the bottleneck could actually be Miyamoto. He's only one guy after all, and the impression I get is that EVERYTHING goes through him. Wii Fit, Sports etc are highly competent things which I just happen to not want. I continue to be baffled that the New Play Control games took so long to emerge - given Capcom had RE4ii out the door more or less immediately - because just that would have been enough to provide me some satisfactory experiences in the years-long drought periods.

Unfortunately Nintendo have grown in a business sense but have been shrinking, seemingly, as a developer since SNES onwards, each gen seeming to produce less and less.

I would expect, though, that in 2010 Nintendo will reveal a new Zelda and hopefully completely new IP with gamer appeal which will really turn heads again. Hopefully what's a long time coming will be worth the wait.

I'd sooner see them ramp up software production though and release a HD console that upscales everything from GCN onwards.

[Grubdog]

I'm ashamed to have bought one. I fell for the bullshit, and wasted a stack of cash.

The niche titles you're talking about aren't as good as the best titles on the XBOX 360. They might be good as far as the Wii library goes, but they can't stack up against the quality of the games on 'proper' consoles.

Race Pro is the only 360 game i've bought all year, bought 10-15 Wii games. People have different tastes, deal with it.

[borgster101]

I'm ashamed to have bought one. I fell for the bullshit, and wasted a stack of cash.

The niche titles you're talking about aren't as good as the best titles on the XBOX 360. They might be good as far as the Wii library goes, but they can't stack up against the quality of the games on 'proper' consoles.

I prefer some of the niche titles to the supposedly "must have" games on the HD systems, it's not always a "good for a Wii game" scenario.

[Stevorooni]

One thing I've noticed with having multiple consoles, with the 360 and to a lesser extent the PS3 is that I like seeing who's online and what they're playing, or having the odd chat through the friends list.
But when playing the Wii you have none of that, you have no idea who is online or what they're doing, playing it you feel kind of... lonely? :p

Even though every console in years before was like that, we're now in an age when we're connected to everything and every second game released has an online multiplayer mode. The Wii's travesty of an online setup and moronic friend codes is one of its major problems.

Even the shitter graphics I could deal with if developers didn't just churn out PS2 or worser quality. The Wii is capable of much more, Mario Galaxy has shown us that. It's just too bad we don't see it often.

I don't regret buying my Wii, I have other consoles to enjoy most of the time and can still go back to the Wii for the odd gem of a game. I don't have us much time for gaming anymore anyway so I don't need to be amazed 24/7

[Blob]

Race Pro is the only 360 game i've bought all year, bought 10-15 Wii games. People have different tastes, deal with it.

My lineup is similar with 1 xbox 360 game and 8 wii games that were released in 2009.Im struggling to find 360 games that have come out this year that have actually been purchase worthy for me although there are 2 I will eventually get too.
AS the year closes I hardly see the 360 count racking up many more games either, what with most of them being pushed back till next year. The wii however has quite a few games still to come out that i will be buying.
I guess im just weird then.

[Cerebral]

Best fun I've had in ages recently is actually homebrewing the shit out of the Wii. My crowning achievement: installing all my games to a USB HDD so I can play them without loud loading or swapping discs.

Ironically I got Vesperia and Fallout 3 shortly after this, and I haven't actually put it to any good use.

[Kotche]

Was there any other reason to own twilight princess? :p

[borgster101]

One thing I've noticed with having multiple consoles, with the 360 and to a lesser extent the PS3 is that I like seeing who's online and what they're playing, or having the odd chat through the friends list.
But when playing the Wii you have none of that, you have no idea who is online or what they're doing, playing it you feel kind of... lonely? :p



Haha yeah, I find myself always checking the friends list .. comparing trophies to see what the latest games people got, and how we're travelling in the game etc .. it's good stuff that is indeed missing from the Wii.

[banjoeskimo]

I should also point out that like aubergine, I don't think the Wii has to suck, and when a good game comes along I do have a lot of fun with them. Pop in Galaxy or Twilight Princess, for instance, and a lot of my criticisms about the Wii fade to obscurity momentarily.

My main problem is that as a platform, I don't think it's really realised its potential. Much in the same way the 360 was viewed as overpriced and "Xbox 1.5" when it came out, I feel like there's so much more that could be done with the Wii that just hasn't been tapped yet. Off the top of my head, the following would be good ideas...

-Get a working online system. It doesn't have to be 360/PS3 level, I don't need trophies and achievements. Just give me a persistent friends list and some indication of when they're online. Get rid of friend codes, or at least have one universal friend code and stop the "one code, one game" bullshit. Voice chat would be nice, but I realise it's probably a little late and I'm just going to have to wait until their next console to talk to my friends during Smash/Mario Kart.

-Offer demos. Allowing Wii users to (finally) use their SD cards for games was a great step, now let's take it one further. I can't count the number of times I've made unexpected purchases because I got the chance to play a demo on the PS3/360 (Batman, Valkyria Chronicles, Mirror's Edge, Braid come to mind) and it'd be a fantastic way to help more gamers make impulse purchases on stuff they might be on the fence about.

-Do something about the amount of crap on the console. I realise they can't stop companies from releasing junk, so what I'm thinking is some sort of workaround that they could encourage the likes of EB to use. Start a "Wii Classics" range, or "Critic's Choice" or some such name that allows them to put up a little cardboard stand in stores everywhere that basically says "Hey, this is the good stuff." There's enough first party content that they could pull it off, and they could have varying price ranges between the New Play Control games and full price Wii titles. Speaking of which...

-Discount your damn classics. Smash and Mario Kart shouldn't still be full price. Do the decent thing and start a line of "Greatest Hits" titles. Also, price drop the console. It's ancient hardware and overpriced. If they were serious about offering "value" for families they'd have done both of those by now.

-Space out your releases. It looks like things are going to start to pick up later this year, but going for such long periods of time without any strong core first party titles has never worked well for them.

Some of those are more difficult than others, and I certainly don't expect everything on that list to come to fruition, but as constructive criticism I think those would be a good start.

[Nic Xtreme]

^ It's just a pain that so many of those things almost definitely won't happen with the Wii, and, considering how ****ing stubborn Nintendo are, probably won't happen in the iteration (whenever that may be - I'm really loving this super-long console cycle) either :(

Nintendo have repeatedly reinforced that they are happy with their online system, and basically say "stop complaining it is free". Which is shit because the PS3 is doing exactly what I'd want from the Wii, and it is free too :/ The voice chat on the other hand has been finally been thrown in (though faaaaar too late), and I'd assume it will be standard from release on their next console - though it's a chore anyway with Friend Codes (and such an expensive accessory).

I'm pretty sure Nintendo have been asked about demos too, and they've stubbornly said "no it's not part of our strategy" or something of the sorts. I don't care what market research may say, I have no doubt that a demo of a quality title can do no wrong when it is increasing its exposure in such a way, and they'd be incredibly ignorant not to push this sort of feature on their next console.

In terms of releases, I'd love to know what the hell they're doing over at Nintendo's development studios - with so few releases lately, I'd assume that there must be a ton of teams hard at work on good quality titles. Thing is, after Miyamoto said that Pikmin 3 is moving so slowly because the dev team is really small as their staff are spread over other projects, it makes me wonder - are Nintendo just wasting their time doing R&D on new technologies or coming up with dodgy ideas that never bear fruit instead of making actual games? (Just saying that reminds me of how angry I am with Microsoft putting Rare to work on Avatars and shitty-looking Natal instead of making new awesome games considering how good the new Banjo Kazooie is).

Working with Team Ninja on Metroid: Other M is the sort of thing they need to do more in order to increase output - but this sort of practice has decreased since the huge amount games resulting from partnerships Nintendo seemed to form during the GCN days.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I love my Wii and its awesome games that I've already listed, but I swear the majority of Nintendo employees not making Picross 3D or Flipnote Studio or Made in Ore! are sitting around in their offices playing paper toss and poker. It's not that they're pumping out too many "casual" games - they don't even make many of those, if you look at it - they're just not making many games themselves period.

[TAT]

Does it make fans of Nintendo sad to realise that they care more about their vat of money than the constant improvement of their craft?

[banjoeskimo]

No, mostly we're just confused that they haven't found a way to meld the two, as it's going to bite them in the ass once they realise their fickle "Board Game / Only Play One Game At Christmas" audience won't follow up with a second console purchase next gen.

Also, it occurs to me that the biggest sign this thread has a point is that it hasn't been locked. For any other major console in history this topic would have been considered troll bait.

[Blob]

Also, it occurs to me that the biggest sign this thread has a point is that it hasn't been locked. For any other major console in history this topic would have been considered troll bait.

Truthfully if the conversations wernt so civil the thread would be locked. Non Wii owners hate the wii and wii owners realise the consoles limitations despite enjoying the games that do exist.

I think Nintendos not as ignorant as people think they are and suspect that the wii is now just a way to bank some money and get ready for the next round. See what works what doesnt. If they arent? Well then there will be issues.

There are a few games from Nintendo on the way. Pikimin 3, Mario, Zelda, Sin and Punishment 2, a new retro title, Kirby (Dev hell but theres still screens coming out), Cosmic Walker, Endless Ocean 2 (Im pumped for it), Monoliths RPG and Metroid being the ones we actually know about likely to come out in the next year or so. Im struggling to see how a games drought is Nintendos fault right now. Theres probably more unknownst to us as well.

[TAT]

I think Nintendos not as ignorant as people think they are and suspect that the wii is now just a way to bank some money and get ready for the next round.
Not even close to the truth.

The Wii is a continuation of all the Gamecube's failings (unique media type, lack of third party games, laughable hardware), but moreso due to the gimmicky control system that isn't what it was lauded to be.

[Second]

I want to attach a motion sensor to my erect penis and see if I can play wii bowling.

[bulkerking]

I get the feeling that Nintendo are more concerned on the DSi (Let's face it's where they started). They do have a few good games on Wii but we just crave more and there really isn't the third party support. I'm yet to try Wii Sports Resort. All we can do now is just wait and see what happens.
________
SUZUKI RV 125 VAN VAN (http://www.suzuki-tech.com/wiki/Suzuki_RV_125_Van_Van)

[Cerebral]

Not even close to the truth.

The Wii is a continuation of all the Gamecube's failings (unique media type, lack of third party games, laughable hardware), but moreso due to the gimmicky control system that isn't what it was lauded to be.

Unique media type? It's a DVD, dude.

Also unlike the Gamecube, the Wii is selling a ****ton worldwide.

[Nic Xtreme]

Not even close to the truth.

The Wii is a continuation of all the Gamecube's failings (unique media type, lack of third party games, laughable hardware), but moreso due to the gimmicky control system that isn't what it was lauded to be.

Also unlike the Wii, the Gamecube had (1) excellent third party games fueled by strong partnerships and (2) did not have laughable hardware, pumping out games that have been technically behind only one of the four consoles - the Xbox - while still managing to be the home to arguably the most gorgeous, graphically appealing games (Metroid Prime, Resident Evil 4, F-Zero GX, to name a few).

I *wish* Nintendo had continued the trend it had established in the GCN days :(

[punkgorilla]

Unique media type? It's a DVD, dude.

No, it isn't actually. Nintendo use their own optical disc to avoid paying the licensing fees that would be necessary if they used DVD's.

[super_deformed]

No, it isn't actually. Nintendo use their own optical disc to avoid paying the licensing fees that would be necessary if they used DVD's. A dvd drive that wont play DVD movies. AWESOME.
Im sure they passed the savings on to the consumer. cough.

[JubeiSaotome]

That's what Club Nintendo is for~!

[banjoeskimo]

Actually, the Wii can play DVDs, but it requires custom homebrew firmware to do so. I'm not entirely sure why they've skimped on letting users play DVDs on the console, as presumably it would only require a firmware update to fix.

[super_deformed]

It will be very interesting to see what Nintendo does next. They'll release something new well before the other two. They make solid money off hardware sales and just about everyone has a wii already.

But to have similar success how will they convince these 'first time gamer' wii owners to buy another system? Presumably better graphics and HD wont do it (the competitors already offer this). Motion controls will be on the PS3 and 360 come late 2010, alternatives that will possibly make the wiimote look subpar.
Their Mii inspired super accessible casual software is so without character that its easily copied by their competitors. And given that their new audience dont care about Zelda, Metroid, mario and team I wonder what software will bring back the masses?

Probably something theyve yet to invent. And you have to hand it to Nintendo. Even though theyre currently doing nothing I care about, theyve continued to lead, for better or for worse, for as long as most of us can remember. While the others throw together potentially better motion control alternatives over the upcoming year lets hope nintendo has another trick up it sleeve.

[punkgorilla]

They'll release something new well before the other two.
I wouldn't be so sure. Nintendo have repeatedly made it very clear that we won't be seeing a new console from them for a very long time. Then again, things change and they've been known to change quickly.

Motion controls will be on the PS3 and 360 come late 2010,
And if you believe that, you'll believe anything.

And given that their new audience dont care about Zelda, Metroid, mario and team I wonder what software will bring back the masses?
Their sales, particularly Marios, would disagree with you.

Even though theyre currently doing nothing I care about, theyve continued to lead, for better or for worse, for as long as most of us can remember.
Only if as far back as we can remember is 2006.

[super_deformed]

Well they didnt care about Zelda and Mario when the GCN was around. Id cite games like Wii Sports and Wii Fit as the wii selling software. And those are all about motion control. Traditional Nintendo franchises are not responsible for Nintendo's current success.

And we're not expecting Natal in 2010??

Before 2006 Nintendo showed some leadership. The gameBOY. Analogue control with the N64. The d-pad (that was theirs wasnt it). Virtual Boy (cough). Rumble. Shoulder buttons. umm.....

[punkgorilla]

Well they didnt care about Zelda and Mario when the GCN was around. Id cite games like Wii Sports and Wii Fit as the wii selling software. And those are all about motion control. Traditional Nintendo franchises are not responsible for Nintendo's current success.
Nintendos old franchises might not have been the sole reason for purchasing a Wii, but that doesn't mean that those people aren't fans of the games now, which is what you originally said.

And we're not expecting Natal in 2010??
You shouldn't be. If it were released late next year it would most likely be with an incredibly small amount of software, all of which will probably be poor quality mini-game compilations (kinda like the Wii launch without Zelda, I guess). Certainly not the 'Xbox 360 re-launch' that Microsoft have been trying to promote. Have a read of these (http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2009/06/02/email-why-was-there-a-skateboard-controller-if-phantom-was-going-to-revolutionize-everything/) articles for (http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2009/06/09/email-natal-doesnt-make-sense/) reasons (http://seanmalstrom.wordpress.com/2009/06/17/what-type-of-interview-is-this/) why (http://signalsin.blogspot.com/2009/06/post-e3-thoughts-microsoft.html).

Before 2006 Nintendo showed some leadership. The gameBOY. Analogue control with the N64. The d-pad (that was theirs wasnt it). Virtual Boy (cough). Rumble. Shoulder buttons. umm.....
Sorry, I assumed you were talking about Nintendo being a leader in regards to console sales/popularity as opposed to 'innovation'. Though why would you even mention Virtual Boy? It also says a lot that none of what you've listed came after 1997.

[super_deformed]

Strange. Punch-Out was released today in Australia yet no one here's talking about it.

There was a time when this nintendo forum enjoyed more traffic. Has the community here shifted across to 360?

Anyhoot. Good game. There's nothing inherently shitty about it and it didnt require buying another peripheral. Brings a tear to my eye.

13 opponents (+ another hidden). Fantastic animation. Dead on digital controls (wiimote sideways).

I'm glad I traded 2 of my wii games for it (and a 3rd Wii game has gone towards my Batman preorder). The way Im going I'll have no Wii games in 2 years. There's about 15 save files on my wii system and half of those games are long gone.

[Spazzallo]

Strange. Punch-Out was released today in Australia yet no one here's talking about it.

There was a time when this nintendo forum enjoyed more traffic. Has the community here shifted across to 360?

Anyhoot. Good game. There's nothing inherently shitty about it and it didnt require buying another peripheral. Brings a tear to my eye.

13 opponents (+ another hidden). Fantastic animation. Dead on digital controls (wiimote sideways).

I'm glad I traded 2 of my wii games for it (and a 3rd Wii game has gone towards my Batman preorder). The way Im going I'll have no Wii games in 2 years. There's about 15 save files on my wii system and half of those games are long gone.

I'm guessing the Hyper forums had a big Nintendo following thanks to N64/Nintendo Gamer. I'm one of those said people :D and I shifted to the 360 :(.

[aubergine]

I used to get behind a lot of Nintendo discussion until about a year after the Wii came out... Even DS releases dried up, Golden Sun may be it's swan song.

[AranchineD]

I used to get behind a lot of Nintendo discussion until about a year after the Wii came out... Even DS releases dried up, Golden Sun may be it's swan song.

wat

The DS is still going as strong as ever!

[aubergine]

I saw that Mario ds bundle on sale for $175, which is a bargain, and couldn't find a tempting new game out in the 12 months since I had one or coming soon, so didn't get it.

Also, iPhone totally alters your perception of the value of a game.

[AranchineD]

Well there's been a great many good titles that have come out in the past 12 months, it's just that most of them get hardly any fanfare at all (mostly because we get ****ed over by living in Australia...).

Still, SCRIBBLENAUTS dude. SCRIBBLENAUTS!

[Fenrir]

a new retro title
You seem to've spelt Raven Blade wrong. ;)

... the Gamecube's failings ( ... laughable hardware)
False.

Unless you're talking aesthetics. In terms of functionality, the Cube's hardware was an extremely impressive display of Nintendo's experience as a hardware developer - cheap to produce, powerful*, easy to develop for, etc.

*Technically, the Cube's "Gekko" CPU will generally outperform the off-the-shelf x86 chip in the Xbox for the majority of tasks, given properly-optimised binaries. The only pitfall of Nintendo's strategy was that the Xbox's graphics chip was better.

I'd sooner see them ramp up software production though and release a HD console that upscales everything from GCN onwards.
This might interest you:
http://www.dolphin-emu.com/news.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolphin_%28emulator%29

It's not quite complete yet, but they've been having relatively stable HD Brawl matches with the program for a while now.

Even DS releases dried up, Golden Sun may be it's swan song.
I haven't actually been able to convince myself of the worthiness of the DS lineup, but I'll probably get one for GS if I don't have one before then.

[super_deformed]

Last DS game I bought was back in January. Or was it November?

Im just not aware of any good DS games coming down the line. Scribblenauts is the one exception. What else is there? Zelda Spirit Tracks in late 2010?

The Wii is no better. Just bought Punch-Out which I love. Then there's the big XMAS Wii line up of ..... umm.

Super Mario Bros Wii in november? And can someone tell me if this is a new title or a multiplayer remake of the DS game.

[AranchineD]

What else is there?

- Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth
- The Another World​ (that Studio Ghibli game)
- Duke Nukem Trilogy
- Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days
- Mario & Luigi 3
- Nostalgia

[banjoeskimo]

Super Mario Bros Wii in november? And can someone tell me if this is a new title or a multiplayer remake of the DS game.

It's an all new game, but the art direction / mechanics are heavily based around the DS version.

[Blob]

You seem to've spelt Raven Blade wrong. ;)


Apparently they looked back at that and found it was shit.

Cant be bothered listing the wii lineup for christmas needless to say Cursed Mountain, Resident evil, Dead space and Muramasa are my picks for later this year

[FrozenSoul80]

I used to get behind a lot of Nintendo discussion until about a year after the Wii came out

I'm the same. I used to be a huge Nintendo fanboy, but the Wii just isn't doing it for me.

I haven't touched my DS in almost a year, too. Still waiting for the new Professor Layton and Phoenix Wright games.

[Fenrir]

Apparently they looked back at that and found it was shit.
Citation needed.

[Blob]

Citation needed.

IGNs latest Retro interview should be on the front page.

[Stevorooni]

My last DS game was either Chinatown Wars or Chrono Trigger, whichever came out last.

Chrono Trigger I got to some impossible boss and Chinatown Wars I've done all the missions and am just using a guide to find all the hidden crap to get 100%

I haven't been paying much attention though so the only DS game on my future agenda is Scribblenauts. I'm betting there's a pile of games I'm missing out on though

[AranchineD]

I'm the same. I used to be a huge Nintendo fanboy, but the Wii just isn't doing it for me.

I haven't touched my DS in almost a year, too. Still waiting for the new Professor Layton and Phoenix Wright games.

Boy are you going to hate me! :D

[Adios]

I just want to see what Retro Studios is working on :(

[Pai Mel]

There's also Ghostbusters, mini ninjas, Metroid Other M, Metroid Prime Trilogy, LOTR: Aragorn's Quest, Rockband Beatles, Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2, New Super Mario Bros Wii, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles - The Crystal Bearers, Super Mario Galaxy 2, Dead Space Extraction,

[Blob]

There's also Ghostbusters, mini ninjas, Metroid Other M, Metroid Prime Trilogy, LOTR: Aragorn's Quest, Rockband Beatles, Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2, New Super Mario Bros Wii, Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles - The Crystal Bearers, Super Mario Galaxy 2, Dead Space Extraction,

I keep forgetting to mention it but silent hill could turn out well. And im interested in the Grudge game too. Survival Horror = wii at the moment. No more heroes 2 is january next year as well. Fragile and Arc Rise as well? Tales for those who havent played it.
EDIT: Sky crawlers looks interesting too.

Believe it or not the list goes on and on.

[Fenrir]

IGNs latest Retro interview should be on the front page.
Do you mean the video interview? I ****ing hate IGN video.

[Blob]

Do you mean the video interview? I ****ing hate IGN video.

Nah theres like a 11 page in depth on retro somewhere on there.

http://au.wii.ign.com/articles/101/1016511p11.html

[Fenrir]

Ah, decent article. I wouldn't expect early dev prototypes to be anything but horrible, though, so it's a bit of a moot point.
That said, I'm going to have to re-watch the Raven Blade footage to re-capture the awesomeness I saw in it all those years ago. It might just be redundant by today's standards.

It doesn't really seem like a Raven Blade-derived game could be the next Retro project, I guess. They do give the impression of working on something totally new, and the old concepts probably aren't good enough to them anymore.

[kirok]

Hey I bought my Wii for all it's 1st party games knowing how unlikely the chance of there being many decent 3rd party games for the Wii console and I stick by my decision.

[pezhead015]

I loved my wii at the start but in hindsight it was the gimmick factor. I haven't played it in over a year and I honestly can't see myself buying the next Nintendo home console. T

[Pai Mel]

What's if it finally has HD graphics?

The Wiimote is more suited to sports games and sword-fighting than ProjectNatal I reckon. The speaker and rumble help add a lot to the realism of hitting an object, something that seems to be missing from ProjectNatal. Unless ProjectNatal will also have add-on peripherals to create those sensations then I think Wii HD would still have quite an edge.

But yeah I don't think any of use would be ready to buy another console for five more years.

That said, I'm quite looking forward to a Dance Dance Revolution: So You Think You Can Dance Edition using ProjectNatal technology.

[Fenrir]

I already mentioned a Wii HD solution (http://www.dolphin-emu.com/news.php); and unless the Wiimote can reproduce normal force, inpulse, etc (hint: it can't), it ain't producing much realism anytime soon.

[super_deformed]

I loved my wii at the start but in hindsight it was the gimmick factor. I haven't played it in over a year and I honestly can't see myself buying the next Nintendo home console. T
Buy Punch-Out (available at JB). A good game on any system

[Chuie2]

Let's just face it, nintendo made a mistake, we have to deal with its errors and move on the better platforms such as PS3 or PC. I mean come on, do you really think after this blow to nintendo they will make a new wii2 or big wii? I doubt it.

[chuie]

Really, I'm surprised at all this hate for the console that is the Nintendo Wii. Sure, people are upset by the lack of decent 3rd party support and the over expectations of the capabilities of the Wii's motion control. And sure, Nintendo is to blame for this. But what's really interesting is that from what I've observed as an attempt to ratify the innate flaws of the Wii is that they are still scrutinized for it.

Wii motion plus to update the lack of sensitivity? "They should have done that at the start!" Be realistic people. If they released such technology already inbuilt to the Wiimote it would most likely have been too costly and they would have lost their initial price advantage against the Xbox 360. Remember that this is what Nintendo has always done with the Game Boy line; intentionally using older technology than what was capable at the time to remain cost efficient to the consumer (Black & White screens compared to the Colour ones Wonder Swan, which upped the cost). Thus, it is why their releases would come out with marginal improvees which could have been implemented from the start; simply because it was cost efficient. And so the Wii motion plus fills the pot-thole that was the original Wiimote.

And seriously, can you really compare the cruelty that Nintendo have placed onto their gamers to that of Microsoft? I mean, I'd rather have purchased a console that did what it promoted itself to do to an extent and works than one that had a 50% chance of breaking down. We all know why that is as well too; Microsoft wanted to be the first next-gen console out before the Wii and PS3, and sacrificed the basic quality of a product that we should all expect along the way. If there was an award for the most evil current-gen console company, I would give it to Microsoft hands down.

To explain with some other complaints I've seen; why is the Wii still priced at $400? This is simply the fundamental law of supply and demand, where as demand is so high and supply so low there is no need to lower the price. Unlike the 360 or PS3, there is no need for an increase in sales. This could also the reason why a black Wii has only been announced until now, where we've started to see a dwindling in the number of Wii sales in the last few months.

So in conclusion Nintendo are simply trying to make a profit, the goal of all companies. But instead of going the traditional route of making a console with improved graphics and processing power in mind they took a gamble with motion control and evidently payed off for it. Gamers haven't necessarily been abandoned by this decision either as games developed by Nintendo are still being developed for gamers, and always will be. I won't bother listing as I've written too much already and we should all know what they are..

[Chuie2]

So what you are saying is that nintendo is evil and doesn't care about it's beloved fans from past times as the dreamcast and even further back gameboy pocket. This is why people should go to the renowned name of PS3 and not this crappy immitation wii (innuendo?) and xbox (not so much innuendo). Let's all boycott this so called 'console' and play a real console, PS3.

[banjoeskimo]

Really, I'm surprised at all this hate for the console that is the Nintendo Wii. Sure, people are upset by the lack of decent 3rd party support and the over expectations of the capabilities of the Wii's motion control. And sure, Nintendo is to blame for this. But what's really interesting is that from what I've observed as an attempt to ratify the innate flaws of the Wii is that they are still scrutinized for it.

Wii motion plus to update the lack of sensitivity? "They should have done that at the start!" Be realistic people. If they released such technology already inbuilt to the Wiimote it would most likely have been too costly and they would have lost their initial price advantage against the Xbox 360. Remember that this is what Nintendo has always done with the Game Boy line; intentionally using older technology than what was capable at the time to remain cost efficient to the consumer (Black & White screens compared to the Colour ones Wonder Swan, which upped the cost). Thus, it is why their releases would come out with marginal improvees which could have been implemented from the start; simply because it was cost efficient. And so the Wii motion plus fills the pot-thole that was the original Wiimote.

And seriously, can you really compare the cruelty that Nintendo have placed onto their gamers to that of Microsoft? I mean, I'd rather have purchased a console that did what it promoted itself to do to an extent and works than one that had a 50% chance of breaking down. We all know why that is as well too; Microsoft wanted to be the first next-gen console out before the Wii and PS3, and sacrificed the basic quality of a product that we should all expect along the way. If there was an award for the most evil current-gen console company, I would give it to Microsoft hands down.

To explain with some other complaints I've seen; why is the Wii still priced at $400? This is simply the fundamental law of supply and demand, where as demand is so high and supply so low there is no need to lower the price. Unlike the 360 or PS3, there is no need for an increase in sales. This could also the reason why a black Wii has only been announced until now, where we've started to see a dwindling in the number of Wii sales in the last few months.

So in conclusion Nintendo are simply trying to make a profit, the goal of all companies. But instead of going the traditional route of making a console with improved graphics and processing power in mind they took a gamble with motion control and evidently payed off for it. Gamers haven't necessarily been abandoned by this decision either as games developed by Nintendo are still being developed for gamers, and always will be. I won't bother listing as I've written too much already and we should all know what they are..

Yes, I can hold this against them. You know why? Because I don't give a shit if they're a company trying to make money. I blew hundreds of bucks on a console that I don't use, didn't live up to expectations, and could be doing a lot more. Happy consumers and a bottom line don't have to be mutually exclusive. What are you, a shareholder?

As I noted in an earlier post, many of the changes I suggested probably won't come in to fruition, but tell me, what on earth would be so difficult about a persistent friend list? A critic's choice line? A price drop? A spaced out release schedule that doesn't plunge owners in to drought for months at a time?

It should be telling that despite my 360 having failed 3 times in 2 years, I still play it regularly. And while I am frustrated by other companies failings in the console market, the reason I'm not up in arms about it is because notable progress toward fixing them has been made at regular intervals.

[chuie]

Yes, I can hold this against them. You know why? Because I don't give a shit if they're a company trying to make money. I blew hundreds of bucks on a console that I don't use, didn't live up to expectations, and could be doing a lot more. Happy consumers and a bottom line don't have to be mutually exclusive. What are you, a shareholder?

As I noted in an earlier post, many of the changes I suggested probably won't come in to fruition, but tell me, what on earth would be so difficult about a persistent friend list? A critic's choice line? A price drop? A spaced out release schedule that doesn't plunge owners in to drought for months at a time?

It should be telling that despite my 360 having failed 3 times in 2 years, I still play it regularly. And while I am frustrated by other companies failings in the console market, the reason I'm not up in arms about it is because notable progress toward fixing them has been made at regular intervals.

No I'm not a shareholder; just a person who likes things to be done right.

I suppose the problem with the lack of decent online support is that Nintendo's rhetoric has always been to focus on local multi-player rather than online, and it would be difficult to improve the service due to the limited space that is on the Wii.

I don't see what's so important about introducing a choice line; it seems like they only did it with the Gamecube because they were so desperate for sales. They never offered one for the N64 or the handhelds either, so it's not like it's strange that they haven't for the Wii. And once again, they are the leaders of this console war; do they really need to offer a critic's choice line when the games that would be on it are still on the top 10 game charts? And it wouldn't really help gamers much since most would have those games if they had owned a Wii.

And onto the point about price drops; how does that help the gamer who has already purchased the Wii? What is needed is better 3rd party support, and is up to them now as Nintendo can no longer be blamed on the weakness of motion controls due to MotionPlus. Also, you talk of better release schedules. From one company? Nintendo is now the only console developer that produces their own games and that's the problem; they're only one company. Even when they shove their projects to other 2nd party developers, there is only so much they can release. You can blame Nintendo of Australia though, as they have for some absurd reason decided not to release Excitebots: Trick Racing, which looked very promising.

Haha, so you're saying that the 360 is so good that it is worth the trouble of sending it in for repair? While that may be true, the point is that it should never had happened in the first place. If it was the Wii that had been breaking down, there'd be controversy everywhere! There is simply no excuse for releasing a faulty console even if it is backed up by good 3rd party developers purely for the reason of profit.

[Grubdog]

Props for the effort chuie but you're wasting your time, the people hating the Wii are in the extreme minority anyway. Better to just sit back and enjoy the games.

Also Nintendo does have decent online support, it's called Mario Kart Wii. :D

[punkgorilla]

Happy consumers and a bottom line don't have to be mutually exclusive.
And they aren't in the Wiis case. The gamers that are complaining are a very small minority of the Wiis fanbase.

A critic's choice line? A price drop? A spaced out release schedule that doesn't plunge owners in to drought for months at a time?Dropping prices means either less profit or, in a lot of cases, a loss of money. Losing money hurts a company, even one that has shitloads of money already. I know you don't care about Nintendos profits, but you need to understand the reason why price drops exist in the first place. There's also the problem with perceived value. Finally, no games console has a 'critics choice' line, why is it essential that Nintendo does?

As for the release schedule, you don't need to buy all games on the day of realease. Besides, if they did space out their release schedule people would be complaining about unneccessary delays. I've never understood why people complain about 'game droughts' all the time. Just buy smarter. Come to think of it, if you had bought smarter in the first place you wouldn't have ended up with a console you don't like.

And while I am frustrated by other companies failings in the console market, the reason I'm not up in arms about it is because notable progress toward fixing them has been made at regular intervals.
Where have you been the past year or so? Nintendo are doing a lot to improve. If we were having this discussion just over a year ago your list of problems would have been much greater. Let's not forget that the other companies are attempting to improve because they need to (and even then they are barely making any real effort).

Better to just sit back and enjoy the games.
Now there's a sentiment I can agree with.

[Lex]

when did all these nintendrones sign up?

[SOX]

Makes me lol how hard these guys are going to defend a company.

[TAT]

Makes me lol how hard these guys are going to defend a company that's clearly faulted.
Fixed.

[SOX]

Fixed.

I was deliberately not giving them anything to run with :/

[chuie]

Props for the effort chuie but you're wasting your time, the people hating the Wii are in the extreme minority anyway. Better to just sit back and enjoy the games.

Thanks, but I just can't help myself >.>

when did all these nintendrones sign up?

Witty comment there, how about you provide a legitimate reply instead of a one-liner?

I was deliberately not giving them anything to run with :/

Well too bad; I'm simply defending them because there are so many people on this thread who have attacked them for illogical reasons.

[TAT]

Well too bad; I'm simply defending them because there are so many people on this thread who have attacked them for illogical reasons.
So you're ignoring the plethora of logical reasons?

[Grubdog]

Better than ignoring good games.

[Cerebral]

Who's ignoring anything? I was under the assumption that most people in this thread who were airing their grievances about the Wii actually owned one and found very few games to their liking (I fall under this category). I certainly wouldn't ignore any good games if I'd gone and put money down for the console in the first place.

[SOX]

Yeah I bought one on launch and held out for a few years but releases were so sparse I lost all hope.
Like I really loved Lost Winds and was hanging out for another few episodes of it but they never came. The VC was the main reason I used my Wii and Brawl was good too but it wasn't enough. The day I sold my Wii I had no regrets (and I've never sold a console before), so that's where I'm coming from.

[Blue]

Props for the effort chuie but you're wasting your time, the people hating the Wii are in the extreme minority anyway. Better to just sit back and enjoy the games.

Also Nintendo does have decent online support, it's called Mario Kart Wii. :DYou said games plural.

Extreme minority? Poll created.

[AranchineD]

And they aren't in the Wiis case. The gamers that are complaining are a very small minority of the Wiis fanbase.

And the majority of the Wii's fanbase OVERALL are mums, dads, their families and oldies who bought the console, played Wii Sport once and never touched it again, this point doesn't hold water at all.

Finally, no games console has a 'critics choice' line, why is it essential that Nintendo does?

You mean apart from the 'Classics' line on 360, or the 'Platinum/Greatest Hits' on PS3?


As for the release schedule, you don't need to buy all games on the day of realease. Besides, if they did space out their release schedule people would be complaining about unneccessary delays. I've never understood why people complain about 'game droughts' all the time. Just buy smarter. Come to think of it, if you had bought smarter in the first place you wouldn't have ended up with a console you don't like.

Even if you space out your purchases, one great game every two months or so will end up with you being left with nothing left to do if you don't have another console too.


Where have you been the past year or so? Nintendo are doing a lot to improve. If we were having this discussion just over a year ago your list of problems would have been much greater.

Yes, they've improved to the point at which they should have been when the console first came out. HOORAY

Let's not forget that the other companies are attempting to improve because they need to (and even then they are barely making any real effort).

Complete console revisions, improving hardware while reducing costs which in turn means cheaper console for the consumer, implementing brand new features to the dashboard or whatever of the console that isn't a gimmicky 'poll' feature that no-one uses, yep, putting no real effort in whatsoever.

[punkgorilla]

And the majority of the Wii's fanbase OVERALL are mums, dads, their families and oldies who bought the console, played Wii Sport once and never touched it again, this point doesn't hold water at all.
If the majority of Wii owners don't play the Wii or buy any Wii games why does Wii software continually sell? Even games that used to be considered hardcore, like Smash Brothers and Mario Kart. Sure, there are studies out there that prove that the Wii is the least played console (by quite a large margin, depending on the study), however you are exagerating to the point of ridiculousness.

You mean apart from the 'Classics' line on 360, or the 'Platinum/Greatest Hits' on PS3? Eibach referred to a 'critics choice'. The range of games you mention are all based soley on sales, not quality.

Even if you space out your purchases, one great game every two months or so will end up with you being left with nothing left to do if you don't have another console too. Then you've got much more free time than I. It's a fair statement to make in your situation, but probably not for the vast majority of people (and again, the majority of Wii owners).

Yes, they've improved to the point at which they should have been when the console first came out. HOORAY But you'll pretend that it's still 2006, right?

Complete console revisions, improving hardware while reducing costs which in turn means cheaper console for the consumer, implementing brand new features to the dashboard or whatever of the console that isn't a gimmicky 'poll' feature that no-one uses, yep, putting no real effort in whatsoever.
Improved hardware? Like removing backwards compatibility? 'Features' like Home, Trophies or Xbox avatars aren't gimmicky? And let's not forget that even after all they've done, their biggest problems still haven't been addressed.

Anyway, I think you've misunderstood me. I'm not some kind of Nintendo fanboy. I could spend pages writing about Nintendos faults, but I don't feel the need to because everyone does that - there's plenty of places to go to hear about it. I just think that there's a lot of people around that with a slightly warped view and I like to see credit given where credits due. People are quite happy to talk shit (http://www.destructoid.com/nintendo-of-america-needs-to-stfu-144387.phtml), but often they're wrong. (http://signalsin.blogspot.com/2009/08/and-now-its-jim-sterlings-turn.html)

[chuie]

Alright you can go on and ignore my explanations but I'll say it again; if you look back at Nintendo's history they have simply repeated past practices.





Yes, they've improved to the point at which they should have been when the console first came out. HOORAY

http://us.wii.com/iwata_asks/wiimotionplus/vol1_page1.jsp

Perhaps you should do some research or think of a logical reason as to why MotionPlus wasn't there in the first place. Despite this source being somewhat bias, it is the most reasonable explanation that I have found. Basically the cost of technology at the time would have made it unfeasible to have the gyroscope inbuilt in the original Wiimote. Being too costly, they would have to wait until it naturally becomes cheaper, which is why I think it hasn't been released until now. Once again, compare this to the Nintendo GameBoy and its use of black & white screens against the WonderSwan's colour ones. And guess who won out that handheld race? They still use the same strategy. Also, if you're going to complain about how they misled consumers into thinking that the Wiimote would have one-to-one pinpoint accuracy, don't think they're the only ones who have done so. Ken Kutaragi, anyone?




Complete console revisions, improving hardware while reducing costs which in turn means cheaper console for the consumer, implementing brand new features to the dashboard or whatever of the console that isn't a gimmicky 'poll' feature that no-one uses, yep, putting no real effort in whatsoever.

Yes, because it is their absolute duty to follow gamers and their cries for a drop in price. Seriously, who do you guys think they are? They are just like any company out there to maximize profit, and why in the world would they lower their prices when demand is still so exacerbatingly high? Don't treat Sony or Microsoft like the holy saints of video gaming just because they're doing what everyone would like to see; they have to as they will lose out if they don't.


So you're ignoring the plethora of logical reasons?

Bring them on then.

[FrozenSoul80]

if you look back at Nintendo's history they have simply repeated past practices.

Except they have done something very different this time, something that has caused many rabid Nintendo fanboys to jump ship. Hyper used to be a hive of Nintendo-related circle-jerking, now Nintendo General is a ghost town.

[chuie]

Except they have done something very different this time, something that has caused many rabid Nintendo fanboys to jump ship. Hyper used to be a hive of Nintendo-related circle-jerking, now Nintendo General is a ghost town.

Haha I had to check google to find out what circle-jerking was -_- Yeah I've noticed even Hyper seems to be somewhat barren in Nintendo-related content too, but that will perhaps change later this year as some more Nintendo releases come out.

[SOX]

Wow you nintentards* are making my day.




*Its ok man I used to be one

[chuie]

To be honest I think I'm being neutral but feel free to call me a nintentard if that makes you feel better at night.

[super_deformed]

Let's just face it, nintendo made a mistake, we have to deal with its errors and move on the better platforms such as PS3 or PC. I mean come on, do you really think after this blow to nintendo they will make a new wii2 or big wii? I doubt it. You're being sarcastic right?

[Watchers]

Muramasa is coming out soon, so there'll be at least one more Wii game I'll actually buy. I should import it from the US though.

[Grubdog]

You said games plural.

Extreme minority? Poll created.
I did, congrats, then I made a completely different point about one online game. Separated by a paragraph, like this.

Yes, extreme minority, and i'm talking about the real world.

http://www.gfk.com.au/Charts/Entertainment/Top%2010%20All%20Full%20Priced%20Gam.gif

I'm not even going to vote in your childish poll.

[RABicle]

I did, congrats, then I made a completely different point about one online game. Separated by a paragraph, like this.

Yes, extreme minority, and i'm talking about the real world.

http://www.gfk.com.au/Charts/Entertainment/Top%2010%20All%20Full%20Priced%20Gam.gif

I'm not even going to vote in your childish poll.

NAH UH CASUL FGTS DONT COUNT ONLY THE HC POSTERS OF HYPER ARE ALLOWED TO THINK ABOUT THIS AND WE ALL HATE WII! If you want to be all "democratic" then i suggest you move to New Zealand, TRAITOR!

[AranchineD]

I love these parties. Always a good way to pass the time.

http://us.wii.com/iwata_asks/wiimotionplus/vol1_page1.jsp

Perhaps you should do some research or think of a logical reason as to why MotionPlus wasn't there in the first place. Despite this source being somewhat bias, it is the most reasonable explanation that I have found. Basically the cost of technology at the time would have made it unfeasible to have the gyroscope inbuilt in the original Wiimote. Being too costly, they would have to wait until it naturally becomes cheaper, which is why I think it hasn't been released until now.

So basically instead of releasing 1:1 motion control with the launch of the console and having it cost more they released it however many years later it is now after people floundered around with mostly imprecise motion control...and having it cost more?

Also, if you're going to complain about how they misled consumers into thinking that the Wiimote would have one-to-one pinpoint accuracy, don't think they're the only ones who have done so. Ken Kutaragi, anyone?

And Ken Kutaragi is a **** and cancer on the game industry as well, but because one dude talks out his ass it means others should too?

Yes, because it is their absolute duty to follow gamers and their cries for a drop in price. Seriously, who do you guys think they are? They are just like any company out there to maximize profit, and why in the world would they lower their prices when demand is still so exacerbatingly high? Don't treat Sony or Microsoft like the holy saints of video gaming just because they're doing what everyone would like to see; they have to as they will lose out if they don't.

Maybe it's just the fact that Nintendo know they can pull a Kurt Angle, do whatever the hell the want, proclaim themselves better than Jesus and say they hate black people and people will still buy whatever the hell Ninty shove in their faces.

Consider my anger towards Nintendo in this regard as a sort of transference of the anger I have towards the people that bought a DSi.

If the majority of Wii owners don't play the Wii or buy any Wii games why does Wii software continually sell? Even games that used to be considered hardcore, like Smash Brothers and Mario Kart. Sure, there are studies out there that prove that the Wii is the least played console (by quite a large margin, depending on the study), however you are exagerating to the point of ridiculousness.

Eibach referred to a 'critics choice'. The range of games you mention are all based soley on sales, not quality.

Then you've got much more free time than I. It's a fair statement to make in your situation, but probably not for the vast majority of people (and again, the majority of Wii owners).

PERSON USES HYPERBOLE TO MAKE POINT. SHOCK

I think the sales of those 'hardcore' games were piggybacked by people still faithful from the Gamecube days or those still following the popular franchises like Smash Brothers, really.


And before the Wii, being based on sales usually meant being based on quality...

Okay, sorry, that was just blatant, but I was responding to the point about why Nintendo shouldn't release a 'budget' line, when the other companies do, or at least that's the point I wanted to make.


Actually I think finishing a single game every two months would be fair enough for most people to handle (even those who have lives and jobs >_>), unless you're talking a big RPG or something. Perhaps not for everyone, sure, but I think it's a fair assumption to make that many people can.

Besides, if you take the 'worst case scenario', someone that has enough free time to play through most games as they are released, they're going to get bored of the Wii quicker than other consoles, aren't they?

But you'll pretend that it's still 2006, right?

che

But to say it's wonderful that Nintendo are improving, when they said that the console as it is now was how it was going to be released, I just find it strange.

Improved hardware? Like removing backwards compatibility? 'Features' like Home, Trophies or Xbox avatars aren't gimmicky? And let's not forget that even after all they've done, their biggest problems still haven't been addressed.

Technically BC is software related. :D That was a stupid decision though, as was Home and the Xbox avatars (but the NXE that the avatars came with is a brilliant improvement to the console) The worth of trophies/achievements is another argument, but I would argue in many cases they can add significant value and playtime to a game.

I would argue go, that if you compare the amount of good improvements on other consoles compared with the gimmicky or crap ones, the good outweighs the bad, which I don't think is what has happened with the Wii.

[borgster101]

LOL fanboy wars .. just enjoy the games guys.

And yeah there are good games on Wii, but no one buys them .. see my playfire sig for Wii collection ;)

[AranchineD]

LOL fanboy wars .. just enjoy the games guys.

And yeah there are good games on Wii, but no one buys them .. see my playfire sig for Wii collection ;)

See my discussion with Jickle earlier in the thread, I KNOW there's many great games on the console, but it doesn't make the console itself great imo.

[TAT]

Maybe it's just the fact that Nintendo know they can pull a Kurt Angle, do whatever the hell the want, proclaim themselves better than Jesus and say they hate black people and people will still buy whatever the hell Ninty shove in their faces.
He wasn't being literal in that promo!

LOL fanboy wars .. just enjoy the games guys.

And yeah there are good games on Wii, but no one buys them .. see my playfire sig for Wii collection ;)
The Wii cops criticism from people who actually own it and it's a "fanboy war"?

Read through the whole thread before posting next time.

[AranchineD]

He wasn't being literal in that promo!

http://www.uyac.com.au/forum/images/smilies/bizarro.gif

[chuie]

So basically instead of releasing 1:1 motion control with the launch of the console and having it cost more they released it however many years later it is now after people floundered around with mostly imprecise motion control...and having it cost more?

Well, yeah, did you think they would just give them out for free? You're also assuming the fact that it would have cost the same if it had been released when the Wii first came out. It wouldn't. It would have been more expensive, and perhaps not even been of a shape that was suitable aesthetically or ergonomically for the consumer.

And Ken Kutaragi is a **** and cancer on the game industry as well, but because one dude talks out his ass it means others should too?

Of course not, but those with interests in selling a product will inevitably do so. Which is why you shouldn't listen to them and the promises that are made, like some people probably did with their expectations of the Wii when they first bought it.

Maybe it's just the fact that Nintendo know they can pull a Kurt Angle, do whatever the hell the want, proclaim themselves better than Jesus and say they hate black people and people will still buy whatever the hell Ninty shove in their faces.

Consider my anger towards Nintendo in this regard as a sort of transference of the anger I have towards the people that bought a DSi.

Now that's pretty slack; the casual market is a legitimate one and it has brought some mildly interesting games like Brain Training on the DS. I mean look at it from their perspective. They're called casual for a reason; do you think they have time to play 'serious' games that take up hours of their time up? They want light entertainment and are willing to pay for which I too think is an outrageously overpriced DSi to achieve it.

[AranchineD]

Well, yeah, did you think they would just give them out for free? You're also assuming the fact that it would have cost the same if it had been released when the Wii first came out. It wouldn't. It would have been more expensive, and perhaps not even been of a shape that was suitable aesthetically or ergonomically for the consumer.



Of course not, but those with interests in selling a product will inevitably do so. Which is why you shouldn't listen to them and the promises that are made, like some people probably did with their expectations of the Wii when they first bought it.


My gripe is really with how they did it, rather than the act itself. Perhaps it would have cost a little more then then it would have now, but that's what price cuts are for, like other consoles have done as they revise their hardware and make it cheaper, so too could have Nintendo, and I'm sure many people would have bought it at release even if it cost more than it did now (it would probably still have been cheaper than other consoles though, of crouse).

It's just that the process went something like: promised 1:1 motion control for $350 -> didn't deliver 1:1 motion control for $350 -> delivered 1:1 for an extra $50 or however much it is. That just doesn't seem right to me.

Now that's pretty slack; the casual market is a legitimate one and it has brought some mildly interesting games like Brain Training on the DS. I mean look at it from their perspective. They're called casual for a reason; do you think they have time to play 'serious' games that take up hours of their time up? They want light entertainment and are willing to pay for which I too think is an outrageously overpriced DSi to achieve it.

Well I wasn't referring to casual gaming as a whole, actually, yes there's a shitload of shovelware that is aimed at the casual but that doesn't sell in most cases anyway, it's the bigger design decisions and the really blatant deception by Nintendo in proclaiming them revolutions in games or consoles but people still believe it.

[chuie]

The MotionPlus is $30 itself actually but it seems like more since it's bundled with Sports Resort for around $80-90. I get at what you're saying, but unless we know how much it would cost to have such pinpoint accuracy on the Wii at the start most of what we say is simply conjecture.

I don't think casual consumers are foolish to believe the whole 'Nintendo Revolution' thing, but have purchased the Wii/DSi over others simply because of its image of family friendliness. Advertising campaigns fronted by the friendly faces of Olivia Newton John or Kieran Perkins can't hurt either!

[Cerebral]

Like I really loved Lost Winds and was hanging out for another few episodes of it but they never came.
Oh they announced a sequel like yesterday, by the way.

[SOX]

Oh they announced a sequel like yesterday, by the way.

Episodic games should never take that long between releases IMO

[FrozenSoul80]

Episodic games should never take that long between releases IMO

Try telling that to Valve >_<

[SOX]

Yeah I was thinking about them too when typing that :P But to be fair, when Valve brought out Episode 2 it was with the best value bundle ever

[RABicle]

Yeah I was thinking about them too when typing that :P But to be fair, when Valve brought out Episode 2 it was with the best value bundle ever
Provided you didn't already own Half Life 2 and Episode one.

[aubergine]

Not on xbox 360!

[AranchineD]

And even then, you still got Portal and TF2 with it too.