The Windows 7 Thread

[/backslash]

Found out my cousin is going to the UK for 2 months so hopefully he'll be able to get Home Premium full retail version for me for AU$110. I'm a little bit worried though that he won't have enough time since it'll be released right on the dot that he'll be getting ready to leave :( However he did also mention he may be able to get it through a workmate who'll be ordering a batch for his company so I may be able to get a cheap one that way

I thought Windows 7 was going to be released a couple of weeks earlier than that, this is going to be another annoying adventure for me

I read that the australian OEM version of Home Premium will be $249 (or was it $299?). Absolutely unfair and none of the UK/US websites will ship to australia and apparently they can still import from eachother, including Japan

[/backslash]

Leaked screenshots of Microsoft Office '14'
http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/01/leaked-first-office-14-screenshots.ars

Not sure if I like the presentation of it, I'm looking at it in automatic 'hate mode' after Office 2007 :p I'll probably hold onto OpenOffice since it is freeware and it does a remarkably good job if you only need it for Excel & Word

[Halt, Hammerzeit]

Office 14 doesn't look that different to Office 07, which I do like. It is very different and difficult to use, but I find it is a better and easier to use program that 2003, once you get used to it. I've been using 07 for a while now, anyway, since we have it at work and we have a system at work where you can buy the software that you use at work for cheap, so I got it for $30 with 3 licences.

[TAT]

I think I've said before that Win7 is worth paying for.

I went straight to it from XP, and I couldn't be more in love with it.

[AranchineD]

Yes, to be honest Vista has just been the most trouble I've ever had with an OS ever, but by all account Windows 7 is great, so I'll be looking to upgrade when it comes out.


Also I agree that Office 07 was hard to learn to use compared to the previous versions, but once I actually did learn to use it I actually found it easier and quicker to get what I wanted done with it.

[/backslash]

Atm I'm having trouble trying to get Vista to play a *.wav file, yes, a wav file! And yes I am smart enough to try every single possible method to get it to work. Ffs I've really had enough of this, problems keep arising even after a proper reformat

Also I agree that Office 07 was hard to learn to use compared to the previous versions, but once I actually did learn to use it I actually found it easier and quicker to get what I wanted done with it.
It'd be handy if I'd never used the previous versions and learned 2007 at school or something, then maybe I might appreciate it

[Fenrir]

Windows 7 strikes me as little more than a PR job, and a chance to cash in during. Sure a lot of features in the pipeline are being implemented, and the interface is getting a lot of attention, and I'm interested in all of that - but at its core this is Vista, and this is what Microsoft have to go through to finally convince the stubborn whiny public that the core technologies of Vista blow XP away.

I went straight to it from XP, and I couldn't be more in love with it.
Coming from the archaic relic that XP is, I'm not surprised.

Yes, to be honest Vista has just been the most trouble I've ever had with an OS ever, but by all account Windows 7 is great, so I'll be looking to upgrade when it comes out.
The thing is, Windows 7 is only really an incremental upgrade from Vista, and any compatibility issues you have with Vista should be just as troubling in 7.

Atm I'm having trouble trying to get Vista to play a *.wav file, yes, a wav file! And yes I am smart enough to try every single possible method to get it to work. Ffs I've really had enough of this, problems keep arising even after a proper reformat
It plays on other systems, though? I'd want to definitively rule that out before you even think to blame an operating system for a media player issue.

[fishfishmonkeyhat]

I'm assuming they've gone back to a "Windows *number*" naming scheme because they realised people love getting the latest version of most software (OH BOY FIREFOX 8!), and random mountain names just wasn't cutting it.

Or am I just cynical?

[/backslash]

It plays on other systems, though? I'd want to definitively rule that out before you even think to blame an operating system for a media player issue.
Yes, these are everyday wav files (like startup sounds, anything wav). What's happening is that I can't play in Winamp but I can play it in WMP however I can't fast forward.

[Second]

I'm scared of upgrading. The jump to XP took some getting used to and the changes in 7 look to be a hell of a lot more fear inducing.

[/backslash]

I'm scared of upgrading. The jump to XP took some getting used to and the changes in 7 look to be a hell of a lot more fear inducing.
Its a bit like looking at the Mac but I'm quite happy with the changes made. Its about time Microsoft upgraded its taskbar

Fixed my wav issue, in order to play it I had to install an OLD version of Winamp since apparently somewhere along the line of v5+ it now tries to read MP3s in WAVs or something. And the reason why I couldn't fast forward in WMP was because I needed to go into fullscreen mode since the seeker bar is so tiny it apparently wouldn't even register

[Araenel]

I'm scared of upgrading. The jump to XP took some getting used to and the changes in 7 look to be a hell of a lot more fear inducing.

It's Windows. It's still essentially the same thing!

God my mum freaks out whenever she thinks she can't find something on Vista, but it's the same thing with a slightly different look.

If you know how to use one version of Windows you won't have any issues with any other version.

[Halt, Hammerzeit]

Not technically true, but close enough. I had a hard time going from Windows 98 to XP because they replaced the option to alter things manually by all those stupid wizards. But more often than not you just need to look a little bit to find what you want. Same with the difference between Office 03 and 07.

[Pai Mel]

Anyone know how to turn off windows wanting to maximize when you bring them to the edge of the screen? 99.9% of the time I just want to re-arrange windows, not maximize them - I mean that's what the maximize button is for. Sooooooooooo frggin' annoying.

[Halt, Hammerzeit]

Didn't know Windows 7 had that feature, I thought it made the window take up half of the screen when you dragged it to one side so you could compare it with another window.

[StorminNorman]

If you bring them to the top of the screen, it maximises the window. If you bring it to the side, it causes the window to span half the screen.

We've had two of our Windows boxes running RC1 for a while now, and I have to say I like it more than Vista (and I actually liked Vista). Seems to handle running on a laptop a lot better than Vista did, too.

[texta]

Didn't know Windows 7 had that feature, I thought it made the window take up half of the screen when you dragged it to one side so you could compare it with another window.

Control Panel -> Click on Ease of Access -> Change how your mouse works -> Prevent Windows from being automatically arranged when moved to the edge of the screen.

The other feature I turned off is the auto taskbar stacking (Right click on start bar -> Properties -> Taskbar buttons = Combine when taskbar is full)

[Pai Mel]

Cheers texta.

[TAT]

Today I bought an X360 wireless network adapter and have just spent the last 10 minutes synchronising the console with my Win7 windows media centre.

This could not have taken less effort on my part, and it's yet another brilliant step up from XP. At this stage I'm going to be more than happy shelling out for a legit copy of Win7.

[Italian Stallion]

Since having my 360 synchronised with Win 7 Media Center I've been using it more for streaming content than playing games.. it's a fantastic little feature. Vista's Media Center wouldn't stream DivX content to the 360, and given the majority of the videos on my PC are encoded in DivX (as I'm sure a lot of people's is), it's great they've changed that.

You can also download a codec thingo from the DivX company to stream MKV files, which is great for people more interested in HD content!

Anyway, does anyone know what the differences from RC1 or the RTM are? I've been meaning to upgrade, but just haven't got around to it.. anything note-worthy to convince me to do it?

[Fenrir]

Hmm, I'm considering upgrading to Windows 7, now. I'll have to do some research - find out whether there are any new compatibility issues with programs I need, whether sources I have will compile properly, etc - but aside from a few things (like the Firefox source, which I've been about to mess around with), I'm not worried. Is an RC still available?

[Clockw0rk]

Nope, RC is no longer available from Microsoft. You might still be able to get a key from them if someone you know has the iso.

[TAT]

Afaik keys are still available, but iso's aren't.

Fenrir if you don't know anyone with an iso I'm happy to mail you a copy of mine: Win7 Ultimate x64.

[/backslash]

Pre-ordered 4 copies of Home Premium full version for $115ea from Amazon.co.uk thanks to my cousin currently visiting the UK, 2 for my roommate, 2 for me :D Saved about $720 altogether compared to buying them locally! I would stockpile them up for ebay but I'd only do that if I were visiting the UK myself

[pauljdavidson]

So whats the best way to get a copy of windows 7. I hear some PC shops are selling OEM copies with a purchase of a hard drive or similar component (even though its against Microsoft terms). Why is it so damned expensive?!

Which is better package for price, Home premium or Ultimate?

[Hyperblau]

If you have a University email address you will be able to get a student upgrade for $30US.

[pauljdavidson]

Looks as if I'll be paying $299 for home premium. Nuts.

[Space_Monkey]

If you have a University email address you will be able to get a student upgrade for $30US.

Is that from Vista only?

I took the "are you eligible" test at Microsoft's website and apparently Deakin isn't registered but they will contact me in 1 - 2 weeks time after gaining more details about my University.....

[Halt, Hammerzeit]

Is that from Vista only?

I took the "are you eligible" test at Microsoft's website and apparently Deakin isn't registered but they will contact me in 1 - 2 weeks time after gaining more details about my University.....

Where is said test? I'm hoping it will apply to TAFEs as well, but I doubt it.

[bulkerking]

yeah just waiting for this so I can get it new laptop. Does anyone know when new laptops are being made/out yet with the new chip set (intel)?
________
Asian Webcams (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/webcam/asian-girls/)

[/backslash]

Looks as if I'll be paying $299 for home premium. Nuts.
Windows 7 OEM Home Premium 64bit Full version - $121 (http://pcmaniacs.com.au/microsoft-windows-home-premium-64bit-full-version-preorder-p-4946.html), no hardware purchases required

One of the very few sites offering a decent price

[Hyperblau]

Is that from Vista only?

I took the "are you eligible" test at Microsoft's website and apparently Deakin isn't registered but they will contact me in 1 - 2 weeks time after gaining more details about my University.....
Upgrade applies the XP upgrades too, the Australian Universitys are not on the list yet, that site you would have tried is US only at the moment. Goes live for Australia on Oct 22.

[TAT]

Does anyone know off the top of their heads what I'll be missing with the 3 different versions?

I'm running the 7100 build of 64-bit Ultimate currently, so is the $250~ price justified for Ultimate or should I go with Professional or Premium?

[texta]

For the average user I think Premium is probably sufficient. Professional does has some potentially useful features if you do very heavy networking or remote desktop stuff, but I suspect for most people it's not the case.

[TAT]

Sweet. As long as I can play games

[Lazlow]

Worth the upgrade on an 8 year old PC currently running XP?

[fearofthesky]

Been using 7 for about a month now. My bro got some legal ISO's from Murdoch uni. It was running like shit for ages, but seems to have inproved from the latest update. For a bit my lappy woul'dnt wake from sleep for some reason. I updated the drivers from ACER too and now seems to be OK. So much faster than Vista!

I don't PC game a lot though so can't reaally say a lot on that side of things.

[Halt, Hammerzeit]

I think I'm going to pick up at least one licence for this. I really don't want to have to put XP back on my laptop.

Edit: Is there anything that MS is offering for easy upgrade for people using the RC? Like not having it shut off every two hours after March if you've got a product key?

[Lazlow]

Worth the upgrade on an 8 year old PC currently running XP?


Grabbed the compatibility tool off Windows' website. Apparently my video card doesn't support Aero (guessing that's the flashy UI), so I may as well hold out until I get a new PC and have it packed in with some sort of deal.

[TAT]

That sounds like your best option, Laz.

[Lazlow]

Most likely, ibuypower (pc stores here suck, cbf shipping individual parts and attempting to build my own) include Home Premium in their prices, and Pro is only another $50.

[Hyperblau]

Student deal is live!

$49.95 and you can add $14.00 to get a backup disk sent out.

http://www.microsoft.com/student/discounts/itsnotcheating/default.aspx

For Windows 7 pro btw.

[Meg]

If it's full of bugs and is a nanny like OS (Vista keeps asking safety shit) then I ain't getting it. XP will do fine for me thanks.

[Hyperblau]

There's plenty of reviews out there.

[Italian Stallion]

If it's full of bugs and is a nanny like OS (Vista keeps asking safety shit) then I ain't getting it. XP will do fine for me thanks.
No bugs that I've encountered, and I've been using it since the beta. The User Account Control ('safety shit') can be disabled, it's there for the majority of users who are too stupid to know when they're doing something wrong. The people who know enough about computers for it to be disabled generally know how to disable it. Also, running XP on any current hardware is such a waste.

I'll be purchasing 7 myself - first OS I'll have done so since 98.

[fishfishmonkeyhat]

If I'm new to the series should I go back and play Windows 3.1, or will I still enjoy this without prior knowledge?

[Stevorooni]

It flashes back to previous versions to fill you in on the backstory while you play so you should be ok.

[JubeiSaotome]

If it's full of bugs and is a nanny like OS (Vista keeps asking safety shit) then I ain't getting it. XP will do fine for me thanks.

Uh, no. Please back up your statements with facts.

[naclj]

Does anyone know off the top of their heads what I'll be missing with the 3 different versions?

I'm running the 7100 build of 64-bit Ultimate currently, so is the $250~ price justified for Ultimate or should I go with Professional or Premium?


remember that if you get an upgrade version your technically only able to upgrade based on which previous os you had ie only vista ultimate can go to win 7 ultimate.

honestly i have been running 7100 x64 since it came out on my main machine and 7600/actual release for just over a month on my secondary machine and i cant possibly think you will miss ultimate.

there really isnt any discernible difference for normal use, the win xp mode is neat but i doubt thats much use to most consumer software now.

id definitely recommend just going with premium/professional what ever its called


oh and that student discount is brilliant im going to recommend that to a few people

***
update

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-31012_7-10379487-10355804.html

good break down of the different features, so yeah Pro is the way to go it seems

[Lazlow]

For my money I'd go no less that Pro, if only for the XP mode to ensure compatibility with any old software you wish to run.

[Stevorooni]

ftr the UAP (which I've dubbed the "Everything's OK Alarm") in Vista can be switched off. Start -> RUN -> MSCONFIG. Click the Tools TAB, select 'Disable UAP' then click Launch. Reboot and it's done!

[Vicious]

If it's full of bugs and is a nanny like OS (Vista keeps asking safety shit) then I ain't getting it. XP will do fine for me thanks.

I have a feeling that you're one of the people that need UAC the most.

Also you need an admin to lock you out of 90% of your system so you don't screw it up in some other way.

In fact screw write permissions . . . no admin in his right mind would trust you with them after you said that.

[Meg]

remember that if you get an upgrade version your technically only able to upgrade based on which previous os you had ie only vista ultimate can go to win 7 ultimate.

honestly i have been running 7100 x64 since it came out on my main machine and 7600/actual release for just over a month on my secondary machine and i cant possibly think you will miss ultimate.

there really isnt any discernible difference for normal use, the win xp mode is neat but i doubt thats much use to most consumer software now.

id definitely recommend just going with premium/professional what ever its called


oh and that student discount is brilliant im going to recommend that to a few people

***
update

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-31012_7-10379487-10355804.html

good break down of the different features, so yeah Pro is the way to go it seems

Well after reading what others here say about Windows 7 must be a ok OS. My sister' currently a student (doing diploma in nursing fyi) so I'll see if I can get it.Mmm cheap software :) One question how many licenses does the student version cover as there are 3 PCs in the house so all can get a OS upgrade. Another thing is Win 7 a resource hungry diva like Vista is?

[Vicious]

Well after reading what others here say about Windows 7 must be a ok OS. My sister' currently a student (doing diploma in nursing fyi) so I'll see if I can get it.Mmm cheap software :) One question how many licenses does the student version cover as there are 3 PCs in the house so all can get a OS upgrade. Another thing is Win 7 a resource hungry diva like Vista is?

1) One license per copy.

2) Yes and no . . . it still uses resources but utilizes them better. As long as you have a somewhat modern processor and enough RAM it will run fine. If however your PC came with XP or below to begin with . . . don't bother until you upgrade.

[Lazlow]

Download and use the Windows 7 upgrade advisor (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=1b544e90-7659-4bd9-9e51-2497c146af15) if you want to know what will and wont work.

This is how I found out my GPU is too ancient to handle Aero.

[/backslash]

My copies have been sent out in the UK, just another 2.5 weeks of waiting to go. Really want to install it now so I can install Bioshock rather than having to reinstall & potentially lose my save files (if they should suffer)

[Dunkurtin]

Mate told me today that Ultimate is ~$400, might go pick it up once i can, maybe it will solve my Fallout 3 problem as well!

[Silverwolf]

Mate told me today that Ultimate is ~$400, might go pick it up once i can, maybe it will solve my Fallout 3 problem as well!

For that price? you'd be ****ing insane.

[Italian Stallion]

For that price? you'd be ****ing insane.
Agreed. And the extra functions of Ultimate over Professional is shit that 99.99999% of home consumers will never use. Hell, the majority of home users won't use the stuff included in Professional over Home Premium, either.

[Dunkurtin]

Oh, just checked. Only things that ultimate has over pro apparently is the BitLocker thing and 35 lanuage support. Looks like Pro will work for me.

[TAT]

RE: The Student Deal; upgrade from Vista only, or can I upgrade from the RC?

[texta]

I downloaded an evaluation copy of W7 U from Microsoft a few months ago and will continue to use it for free until it stops working in about a year.

And people say Microsoft are a bad company.

[Italian Stallion]

About a year? The RC expires on the 1st of March, at which point Windows will automatically shut down every 2 hours. On June 1st it'll completely expire and will activate a "non-genuine experience", whatever that means.

TAT - the upgrade is from XP or Vista to 7. You can't upgrade from the RC to the final release either, at least not with an official disc. You'll have to do a complete fresh install. There's a text file on the DVD you can edit which allows you to install over the top, though.

[StorminNorman]

1) One license per copy.

Are you sure about this? I'm pretty certain that "Home" versions of Microsoft software allow multiple installations. My copy of Office 2007 allows up to five simultaneous installs.

As an aside, is it possible, via the magic of online purchasing and digital content delivery, to "upgrade" an RC1 release to a final retail release? I was kind of secretly hoping that Microsoft would provide a dialogue box somewhere within RC1 that would magically let me enter a credit card number and then download and install the updates needed to turn RC1 into Windows 7 on a single machine.

That would be pretty great, actually.

Honestly, I'd just be happy if Microsoft finally started putting an SSH server in the default install.

[TAT]

TAT - the upgrade is from XP or Vista to 7. You can't upgrade from the RC to the final release either, at least not with an official disc. You'll have to do a complete fresh install. There's a text file on the DVD you can edit which allows you to install over the top, though.
Damn. Looks like Pro is the way to Go, and as annoying as reinstalling will be, it'll be a Win7 reinstall :P

[Italian Stallion]

Yeah, I'm looking at buying Pro too. I've installed 7 a few times in the past few weeks (due to hardware changes etc), and I've found it pretty quick and easy. Took about 25 mins start to finish.. heaps quicker than XP/Vista took. Worst part is reinstalling all my apps! Comparatively, it took about 6 hrs to do an upgrade from Vista to 7, then to subsequent 7 builds. So much easier just to do a fresh install..

StorminNorman - I answered that question in my previous post. >_>

[/backslash]

Damn, I just found out that Windows 7 Pro has a Windows XP mode, I'm guessing it'll allow more games/apps to be compatible? That'd be handy

[Italian Stallion]

Apps, yeah.. games not so much. It doesn't install drivers for your devices in XP mode, so you can't run D3D stuff.

[Vicious]

Are you sure about this? I'm pretty certain that "Home" versions of Microsoft software allow multiple installations. My copy of Office 2007 allows up to five simultaneous installs.

Positive. You're probably thinking about the family pack which was more expensive but offered a discount for a three pack of licenses.

Regardless only one license works per PC.

[Space_Monkey]

Well because of the fantastic student offer I will be upgrading tonight! :)

[fishfishmonkeyhat]

Me too, once this ****ing backup takes.

I like how the most basic version doesn't even let you change the wallpaper. That had to have saved money and resources!

[TAT]

Everyone is trying to cash in:

http://media.bestofmicro.com/burger-king-windows-7-whopper,X-F-228003-13.jpg

[Lex]

so at the moment I'm using an unregistered version of windows vista (which is great, because the only downside is it keeps getting rid of my wallpaper and occasionally reminding me I should register my copy), but I'm thinking of buying Windows 7. Will I need to do a complete wipe, or would I be able to upgrade this non-genuine copy of vista?

google wasn't any help.

[Pauly]

Okay so I'm thinking of using the student discount to get a copy for one of our laptops. Just wondering if you only need to be a student at the time of purchase? Because I'm only a student till the end of the year.

[Halt, Hammerzeit]

Student deal is live!

$49.95 and you can add $14.00 to get a backup disk sent out.

http://www.microsoft.com/student/discounts/itsnotcheating/default.aspx

For Windows 7 pro btw.

It also says for students and staff at those institutions. I got a bit worried for a moment because Swan TAFE isn't on the list, but Midland College of TAFE and South East Metro College of TAFE is, which is what Swan TAFE was before they merged, and it accepted my Swan TAFE email address, so it should be all good.

[fishfishmonkeyhat]

The ****?

They removed video wallpapers and replaced them with slideshow images? (thanks I wanted that back in Win98).

Still no ****ing support for a taskbar on a second monitor?

WHAT THE **** AM I UPGRADING FOR IF IT'S NOT FOR FANCY VISUAL UPDATES!?

[tau]

I put the taskbar in the middle of the two monitors, on the left side of the right monitor. Love the setup, just... works really well for me for some reason.

Then again, I have bigass screens so it's not like i'll ever have a window on both screens at once so as to be obscured by the bar being in the middle.

[fishfishmonkeyhat]

Well I decided a fresh install would probably be better after trying an upgrade so went back to vista.

Spent this weekend trying to un**** my pc. I ALMOST LOST MY PORN!

[JubeiSaotome]

Just got a free copy of Pro from a friend who has MSDN access. :3

[/backslash]

DSE have all full versions of Windows 7 @ 30% off on their website - pre-orders only

Home Premium $187 (http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/4ae4446c005ce80a273fc0a87e01067b/Product/View/XS8095RAIN) (RRP$299)

Pro $278 (http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/4ae43d0d030bb17a273fc0a87e010675/Product/View/XS8097RAIN) (RRP$400)

Ultimate $293 (http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/4ae4677e081cb1cc273fc0a87e0106e5/Product/View/XS8099RAIN) (RRP$450)

Be quick, website is experiencing heavy traffic atm :p

[Lex]

Would I ever need XP mode for gaming, or does Home Premium still come with compatibility modes?

edit: well I bought it anyway, as you can upgrade later on down the track.

[StorminNorman]

Regardless only one license works per PC.

That's ****ed. I'm not really going to buy three copies just so I can install them each on three PCs.

(Four copies if I could ever be bothered Bootcamping my Macbook.)

Why can I do that with Office but not Windows? It seems mentally retarded to me.

**** I hate software licensing. Bullshit like this is why I prefer Linux.

StorminNorman - I answered that question in my previous post. >_>

In my defence, you posted that while I was writing my post. :p

[Vicious]

That's ****ed. I'm not really going to buy three copies just so I can install them each on three PCs.

(Four copies if I could ever be bothered Bootcamping my Macbook.)

Why can I do that with Office but not Windows? It seems mentally retarded to me.

The only office we can do it with here is student and teacher . . . so I'm wondering how you're even doing that.

**** I hate software licensing. Bullshit like this is why I prefer Linux.

Yes, because when I think computers I want to think dependency hell too. :p

[JubeiSaotome]

It's silly to assume that a paid operating system would even allow for multi-use licenses to begin with. Does OSX even offer it?

[Halt, Hammerzeit]

Student deal is live!

$49.95 and you can add $14.00 to get a backup disk sent out.

http://www.microsoft.com/student/discounts/itsnotcheating/default.aspx

For Windows 7 pro btw.

Just to clarify, is the backup disk just an installation disk so you don't have to download it to install it again?

Also, looks like it's one licence per email address too. I tried adding a second on to my shopping cart, but it won't let me.

Edit: Also, does the Microsoft student upgrade work for XP as well?

[Hyperblau]

Just to clarify, is the backup disk just an installation disk so you don't have to download it to install it again?

Also, looks like it's one licence per email address too. I tried adding a second on to my shopping cart, but it won't let me.

Edit: Also, does the Microsoft student upgrade work for XP as well?

Yeah its just a disk with the OS you paid for on it. Like any normal OS disk.
The student upgrade works for XP too, but you wont be able to run the upgrade install, it will need to be a fresh install.

[StorminNorman]

The only office we can do it with here is student and teacher . . . so I'm wondering how you're even doing that.

Office Home And Student edition allows installations on up to 3 PCs.

Yes, because when I think computers I want to think dependency hell too. :p

Uh, what? I don't really know what that is, sorry.

It's silly to assume that a paid operating system would even allow for multi-use licenses to begin with. Does OSX even offer it?

Yes. There's a limit (I think the EULA says 5 Macs or somesuch), but the OS makes no attempt to stop you from installing it as many times as you want. There's no license key or product activation or any of that crap in Mac OS X (except for OS X Server).

Unofficially, Apple assumes there are as many copies of Mac OS X as there are Macs that can run them.

[Lazlow]

I was dead certain XP Home allowed 5 installations :/

Is this not the case anymore?

[Silverwolf]

Unofficially, Apple assumes there are as many copies of Mac OS X as there are Macs that can run them.

Thats because nobody would dare use such a crappy OS on anything other than a mac! =D

[Pauly]

Yes. There's a limit (I think the EULA says 5 Macs or somesuch), but the OS makes no attempt to stop you from installing it as many times as you want. There's no license key or product activation or any of that crap in Mac OS X (except for OS X Server).
I'm confused because Apple sell two versions. One is a single install version and the other is multiple. I always assumed you could only install on one mac with the former. Mind you it doesn't cost much for the multiple install version.

[StorminNorman]

See, the thing is, all the restrictions are entirely within the EULA.

Sure, you violate the EULA by doing it, but given that it's probably in violation of the Trade Practices Act anyway (most EULAs are), and given that the software itself makes no attempt to prevent you from doing it, then, well, let's just say the phrase 'tacit endorsement' is appropriate here.

Thats because nobody would dare use such a crappy OS on anything other than a mac! =D

Ohohohohoho!

To be fair, back when Macs had real CPUs in them, it was impossible to run Mac OS on a non-Mac.

[Vicious]

To be fair, back when Macs had real CPUs in them,

lol

You're a funny man Norman.

[JubeiSaotome]

I was dead certain XP Home allowed 5 installations :/

Is this not the case anymore?

I think it's always been like the PSN account thing. 5 uses, mainly for reformats or system replacements.

[Fenrir]

DSE have all full versions of Windows 7 @ 30% off on their website - pre-orders only

Home Premium $187 (http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/4ae4446c005ce80a273fc0a87e01067b/Product/View/XS8095RAIN) (RRP$299)

Pro $278 (http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/4ae43d0d030bb17a273fc0a87e010675/Product/View/XS8097RAIN) (RRP$400)

Ultimate $293 (http://www.dse.com.au/cgi-bin/dse.storefront/4ae4677e081cb1cc273fc0a87e0106e5/Product/View/XS8099RAIN) (RRP$450)

Be quick, website is experiencing heavy traffic atm :p
Bleh, those are still arserape prices.

Is there anything implicitly wrong with the student versions? ie. anything different about them at all, restrictions on upgrading, etc. If it's just a cheaper product key and no strings, I'll get one sometime next year, and make do with a Vista reinstall 'til then.

lol

You're a funny man Norman.
To his credit, PowerPC > x86*.

Intel and AMD have been buoying x86 with exorbitant r&d investments in pipelining, et al to offset instruction set hangups since the rise of RISC. It wasn't the big problem RISC advocates made it out to be - they obviously still made frickloads of cash out of x86, it's not a real problem for developers, and in the end legacy support is worthwhile to consumers - but technically they were right. >_>

It's all pretty irrelevant today, though, since in 2009, everything - the compilers of 2009, the processor architecture implementations of 2009 - is so damned advanced, that nobody in their right mind really gives a shit in practice anymore. It's all kind-of armchair, story of mel (http://catb.org/esr/jargon/html/story-of-mel.html) stuff that drags on in forum debates until someone reminds everyone else that two decades have passed.

*This is in no way an endorsement of anything else Apple have done, ever. >_>

[/backslash]

Bleh, those are still arserape prices.
Still better than the normal arserape prices. Doubt you're going to see a better price than that buying locally unless its the OEM/upgrade version

[Halt, Hammerzeit]

Bleh, those are still arserape prices.

Is there anything implicitly wrong with the student versions? ie. anything different about them at all, restrictions on upgrading, etc. If it's just a cheaper product key and no strings, I'll get one sometime next year, and make do with a Vista reinstall 'til then.

It's exactly the same program, but I think only the Windows 7 Pro Upgrade is available (although they're upgrading from XP and Vista, and if you don't have one of those, you're computer's probably too crap to run Windows 7.

[StorminNorman]

...And, unlike Adobe's products, they'll keep working when you stop being a student!

[Space_Monkey]

Hey can I order Windows 7 as a hard disc rather than a download using the student offer as I'm thinking of my cap and not going over my limit?

[Halt, Hammerzeit]

I was tempted to buy a copy of Office 2007, but I can get it for $20 through work. The agreement they make you sign says you're going to delete it if you leave, but nobody ever does. Hooray for working at an educational institution.

Edit:
Hey can I order Windows 7 as a hard disc rather than a download?

It's $50 for the product and apparently you can pay an extra $14 and get a disk.

[fishfishmonkeyhat]

Currently moving my shit over to a fresh install.

I could probably live with one taskbar (until ultramon updates, anyway.)


Ohh, came up with the best name for my PC running Win7!

Blakes7!

It works on at least 2 levels!

[Ryan Hayward]

Picked up the upgrade today for 170 bucks. ( JBs)
In no time at all, installed and put all my old programs on. Certainly faster than vista and love the new features! :)

[/backslash]

Getting my copy in 4 days, honestly it can't come soon enough. Vista is turning into slow motion again for no apparent reason and my dvd programs keep on freezing up, sometimes it'll play with no sound so you have to quit it & start the program back up again *sighs*

Also for whatever stupid reason, Windows Aero keeps on animating my windows even though I told it not to, it'll actually work for a couple of minutes but then it somehow changes its mind and starts animating

[Silverwolf]

Getting my copy in 4 days, honestly it can't come soon enough. Vista is turning into slow motion again for no apparent reason and my dvd programs keep on freezing up, sometimes it'll play with no sound so you have to quit it & start the program back up again *sighs*

Also for whatever stupid reason, Windows Aero keeps on animating my windows even though I told it not to, it'll actually work for a couple of minutes but then it somehow changes its mind and starts animating

You're doing it wrong omg!!!!

[/backslash]

What am I doing wrong? Owning Vista? :p

[Silverwolf]

When you own Vista, you are meant to OWN it.

(you aren't doing anything wrong, you're just not hardcore enough for vista)

[Ryan Hayward]

Had an issue with windows 7 tonight with slight bluriness. However I found out that its a contrast/brightness thing. If you too are having this problem, turn up the contrast/brightness on your monitor and watch the bluriness disappear back to razor sharp goodness.
I guess Microsoft copped some shit over how bright Vista was by default on lcd monitors so turned it right down for windows 7.

[texta]

That sounds like it's entirely a monitor problem and has nothing to do with Win 7 at all.

[fishfishmonkeyhat]

After a week of messing around I have it set up all nice like.

I like how gadgets don't just re-arrange themselves on restart now.

[Lazlow]

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/4267/697221235axzral.jpg

[FX-GTZ]

Sooo does this require a full hard drive format like every other window's version? I got too much sh*t on my hd to back up and lose.

[Ryan Hayward]

Depends on whether you're upgrading from xp or Vista. With Vista you'll probably be okay with just the upgrade. XP, requires the format.

[Fenrir]

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/4267/697221235axzral.jpg
I dearly hope that Tycho never posts another opinion piece on Windows, or any other OS or application platform, ever again.

[Pauly]

Been playing around with win7 on my gf's laptop. I didn't think I'd say this about windows again, but it's actually pretty good!

[/backslash]

My copy should be here today, huzzah! I should personally meet my cousin at the airport, grab the copies of Windows 7 and leave him at the bag collection

[Vicious]

I dearly hope that Tycho never posts another opinion piece on Windows, or any other OS or application platform, ever again.

This^

I went and read it . . . honestly, he just came off as a tool in the process.

[Pai Mel]

I've installed Windows 7 RC on two computers so far and they are both activated. When will my Windows 7 Beta/RC key actually expire?

[Halt, Hammerzeit]

In March 2010 it will start shutting down every 2 hours. Not sure what month it will turn off altogether, though.

[fishfishmonkeyhat]

So what's the go with XP being in 7?

Is it just in compatibility mode, or can you actually launch it from somewhere?

[TAT]

If your CPU supports virtualization, this will help you: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/virtual-xp-virtualbox,2418.html

[Fenrir]

Well, that seems stupid, the only thing to be gained from hardware support for virtualization* is performance. It should've still been possible to support software-based emulation, unless it performed so inefficiently as to warrant being cut from the final product - in which case, how do other virtualization programs manage to offer software emulation?


*or anything but Turing-completeness, really

[fishfishmonkeyhat]

Currently downloading 147mb worth of updates for XP.

**** I CAN'T WAIT UNTIL THEY **** THIS OS OFF FOR A BETTER ONE.

but srsly it's a nice feature and is integrated well (if you'd ever need it).

[Silverwolf]

I dont know why the hell you would want to emulate XP while running windows 7.
People need to learn to move on.

[Fenrir]

I don't mind so much - I spend big swathes of my banter-time advocating software-based execution platforms like Java and .NET, and an emulator is essentially another of the same, so it's probably a good sign.

[Zan]

I installed windows 7 last night. Simplest Windows install I've ever done. In the past I was installing 98 and then XP. Installed graphics, sound and a few programs... done. So fast.

The happy blue windows 7 theme amused me when it first popped up. O-kay Mister Sunshine! Na-nana-nananana-na Kataramari Damashi~

Anyway, one thing I couldn't bear that I had to install right away is a little program called teracopy, which I have to pimp being free and all. Gives you intelligent options while moving/copying files from one place to another, like replace 'older only' stuff like that. If you move stuff multiple times they'll queue up instead of attempting to do it all at once.

[/backslash]

Got my copies of Windows 7 today, surprisingly I got both 32 & 64 bit versions in 1 case. Don't think I had that in the full copy of Vista. Which one should I use? I've heard that some people have problems with the 64bit version since there sometimes isn't any support with drivers. What are the advantages of using 64bit? Is it just the unlimited usage of ram?

[Silverwolf]

Just use 64 bit, there are very few compatability problems now, the only things I have come across that aren't compatible on my 64-bit Vista are ancient games like SimFarm, which can be solved with DosBox or XP in a VM.

People have to upgrade sooner or later.

[TAT]

Even if you don't game much on your PC, you will notice an improvement if you have 4Gb RAM or more.

There are less and less problems with 64-bit drivers these days. I've used maybe 50 different programs and games on this 64-bit Win7 install and haven't yet been stuck as a result of missing/faulty driver.

[/backslash]

I've got 3gb of DDR2 ram in my PC (recently upgraded from 2gb), don't think I'd ever use 4gb but in the future 4gb might be minimum requirements to play games. Thanks for the info guys :)

[Pai Mel]

I wouldn't bother upgrading your RAM unless you are already on i7/i5 and it's DDR3 RAM, or you currently only have 1GB RAM.

[/backslash]

I wouldn't bother upgrading your RAM unless you are already on i7/i5 and it's DDR3 RAM.
I upgraded because I was using Vista :p Not intending to upgrade my ram again anytime soon

[fishfishmonkeyhat]

Anyway, one thing I couldn't bear that I had to install right away is a little program called teracopy, which I have to pimp being free and all. Gives you intelligent options while moving/copying files from one place to another, like replace 'older only' stuff like that. If you move stuff multiple times they'll queue up instead of attempting to do it all at once.

I actually got rid of that when I moved to 7. I was getting too many errors when something wouldn't move for some reason and the window would stay open.

I dont know why the hell you would want to emulate XP while running windows 7.

As a wise person once said in this very thread:

games like SimFarm, which can be solved with DosBox or XP in a VM.

ohwai




Installed 7 on my Auntie's laptop today. Thought I was going to have problems upgrading since she was running Premium and I was upgrading her to Ultimate but luckily they actually let you do that.

Did you know you can't do a full pc backup in Vista Premium?

Redonkulos.

[Pai Mel]

Are you guys really gaming much on your PCs? I thought PS/360s were the main platform now.

[TAT]

Steam is always improving their system, which is part of it.

The other factor is knowing you can build your own system with a myriad of custom parts tooled to your exact specifications (I spose this is a foreign concept to Mac owners).

I know what you mean with the 360 because I do a bit of gaming on it and I think the system itself is amazing and Live is flawlessly integrated, but I'm not willing to pay for Live (atm I'm using the 3-month sub I got when my 360 was fixed)

Also, PS3, lol.

[Silverwolf]

Are you guys really gaming much on your PCs? I thought PS/360s were the main platform now.

One word:

Casuals.

[Lazlow]

In the year twoooooo thooooooouuuusaaaaaaaaaaand

[Pai Mel]

The other factor is knowing you can build your own system with a myriad of custom parts tooled to your exact specifications (I spose this is a foreign concept to Mac owners).

Yes I Mac but I also PC as well.

My current systems:

Main PC
Lian Li PC-A20 case
Corsair HX 520 PSU
Asus P5Q Pro
Q6600 Quadcore with Go Stepping @ 3.4GHz
2 x 2GB RAM
Asus EAH4670
2 x 320GB HDs set as a RAID stripe
2 x 500GB HD
Windows 7


HTPC
$70 Coolermaster case, tool-less design
Corsair HX 520 PSU
Asus P5Q Pro
E7300 Pentium Dual-Core
1 GB RAM
fanless 8400 VGA card
250GB OS HD
1TB HD storage
Windows 7


So as you can see I know how to build together a PC. I just don't game on PC that much. I think a lot of it has to do with mouse RSI and not liking being hunched over a desk for hours. I actually use a Wacom most of the time. There's not a lot of games that are suited for a tablet apart from RTS games.

[Silverwolf]

Teehee, Go stepping.

I don't understand the purpose of your post, Pai.

[Pai Mel]

Was just trying to show that unlike most Mac fanbois, I can actually build my own PC from separate components.

[Silverwolf]

Anyone can do it though, just follow the instructions and complete the jigsaw puzzle.

[TAT]

Anyone can do it though, just follow the instructions and complete the jigsaw puzzle.
Yeah, pretty much. I surprised myself with how easy it was.

And I wasn't trying to have a go at you, Pai, but the PC setup has come a long way in the last few years with HTPCs becoming more popular, and with better parts being more affordable (i.e., larger LCD monitors that are actually capable of gaming; I've found that I dislike gaming with the 360 on my 4:3 TV because I'm so used to playing PC games on a 16:9 LCD).

But in all seriousness, the 'why game on the PC' question just sounded like it came from someone who has never gamed on a PC ever...

[Zan]

I actually got rid of that when I moved to 7. I was getting too many errors when something wouldn't move for some reason and the window would stay open.


I just downloaded a new version of it and have been moving files around a fair bit this morning reorganising everything. Haven't noticed any problems.

[/backslash]

Installed Windows 7 tonight and all is well. Interface is very easy to use and I like the little preview panes. Changing themes is easy as pie (downloaded all those official themes). Now that its 3am I can go to bed knowing that my drivers are all up to date and I've removed some of the annoying quirks, the OS should boot up 15 seconds faster now :D

[TAT]

Installed Windows 7 tonight and all is well. Interface is very easy to use and I like the little preview panes. Changing themes is easy as pie (downloaded all those official themes). Now that its 3am I can go to bed knowing that my drivers are all up to date and I've removed some of the annoying quirks, the OS should boot up 15 seconds faster now :D
Good to hear, and I'm insanely jealous that you have a legit copy up & running

[ElPresidente]

As folks who were following my Twitter feed around 12:00 am onwards would know I was hit by a virus attack last night which forced my hand in getting off my arse and installing Win 7.

20 mins and I was done except for the applications I use during work, Steam games, etc.

Ridiculously simple installation. To be honest I am really liking the OS so far too.

[Melas]

I've been using Win7 since the Rc1 and RTM were released, (yay for technet account). And i must say this really is a fantastic OS. not had any issues with it even in the beta.
All the games I've tried to play just work. didn't have to install any drivers to make specific hardware work off the bat. really only needed my g15, but then thats very specific.

I also installed the RTM on my 3 and a bit year old Acer travelmate 2400. (celery 1.5ghz, upgraded to 2gb of ram and a 160gb HD), and I still didn't need to install any hardware drivers. Admittedly the RC1 didn't work on it, but the RTM is a huge improvement. Now I need to buy the real thing.

And the install process is as painless as possible.

[Halt, Hammerzeit]

I've got it on my 3 year old laptop and it runs perfectly. It's just awesome. The only thing I need to do is find the toshiba software that lets me use the volume control on the front of my laptop again. It hasn't worked since I installed the RC.

Edit: I tried using a second TAFE email address to get another copy of it, but it won't let me. I think I'll have to use someone else's name for it.

[/backslash]

Good to hear, and I'm insanely jealous that you have a legit copy up & running
And my copy was only $115 :D Accidentally tore up my certificate sticker though since it was holding the case together and I couldn't think of any other way to open it until it was too late, doh! Still got another sealed copy here, wondering what I should do with it

Oh and during the installation I made a separate partition for all my media stuff, 200gb of it. So if I have to format again I won't have to backup all my music & videos

[Halt, Hammerzeit]

The only media I have on my actual computer is my music, but I'll probably end up putting all my media and program installation files on my two 1TB external drives and plug them into my wireless router so it doesn't have as many computers and cabling to go through to get to my laptop (which is attached to my TV).

[Italian Stallion]

As folks who were following my Twitter feed around 12:00 am onwards would know I was hit by a virus attack last night which forced my hand in getting off my arse and installing Win 7.

20 mins and I was done except for the applications I use during work, Steam games, etc.

Ridiculously simple installation. To be honest I am really liking the OS so far too.

I was really surprised by just how quick the OS installs. It's great.. just don't try an upgrade from Vista - that took it nearly 6 hours. :eek: Would've been quicker to backup & do a fresh install!

Oh and during the installation I made a separate partition for all my media stuff, 200gb of it. So if I have to format again I won't have to backup all my music & videos
Always a good idea. I keep nothing of importance on my C:, when I need to format all I need to do is copy my Firefox profile & emails to another HDD and I'm ready to go.

Looking at using that offer for students where you can get Win 7 Pro upgrade for $49. Mixed reports about whether you can use it for a fresh install though.. Having to install Vista or XP every time I want to reinstall 7 sounds like a pain in the ass.

[TAT]

Still got another sealed copy here, wondering what I should do with it
I'll gladly exchange you an appropriate amount of Australian currency for it... >__>

[Pai Mel]

64-bit or 32-bit? Ultimate? Premium?
I too may be willing to exchange you for either currency or games.

[/backslash]

Its so pretty I don't want to give it up though :p My friend wants a copy but wasn't prepared to buy it since he thought he could just 'borrow' my copy that I'm already using and install it (doesn't work like that anymore!). I told him to just buy the OEM if he intends to do that, he's always trying to cut corners even though he barely spends money on anything.

I'm still thinking about installing it on my laptop yet weighing the options, I want to eventually get a 10" notebook and install it on that but I want to wait until they get a bit better. I'll wait a bit before I made a decision, if I bought an extra 5th copy I'd gladly sell it to you :)

I think Windows 7 has some kind of online checker against everything, it picked up my CS4 and forced it into trial mode >_> I've got Adobe Elements 7 retail but it just feels soo kiddy that I'm somewhat embarrassed by it - if only it had the same skin theme. Might have to look into ordering CS4 from Amazon when it gets to a decent price

64-bit or 32-bit? Ultimate? Premium?
64 & 32bit (2 in 1) Premium

[Silverwolf]

Sell it to me slashy <3

[/backslash]

Good to know I've got plenty of potential buyers :p

My new desktop :D

http://home.exetel.com.au/backslashio/wallpaper.jpg

I know it should be in the wallpaper thread but meh, wanted to gloat. Now that I've got a new OS, new 24" monitor (the annoying colour issue was fixed after I installed Windows 7) & new PC case I feel like celebrating with a new graphics card and actually contemplating the 5850 even though I should be happy enough with a 4890 :( Or I could just wait longer

[fishfishmonkeyhat]

I just found that exetel gadget. Awesome.

[Pai Mel]

So I was just looking into Windows 7 keys you can buy on ebay cheap. Apparently they are Volume Licence keys.

Q: Is this a trial key or will the key expire?
A: No, this is not a trial key. The key will never expire.

Q: Where do the keys come from?
A: The keys are issued directly from Microsoft

Q: Is the key legitimate?
A: Yes, it is 100% legitimate and authentic.

Q: Will the key allow for product updates?
A: Yes, the key will allow for product updates for the life of the computer, as well as OS upgrade or full installation.

Q: Why are the keys so inexpensive compared to purchasing in a retail store or online?
A: We purchase volume keys and pass the savings along to our customers. In a retail store, you are purchasing a copy of the software and packaging that you may already own.


So for example everyone on the Hyper forums can pitch in $5 to buy a Windows 7 volume licence key cheap?

[Pauly]

you can only use it once...

[fishfishmonkeyhat]

That's why it's so cheap!

[Pai Mel]

But it's totally legit right? The cheapest on ebay is $24.95 USD. I think I may get one to try even though I can still use my current key till March.

I've already got the Release Candidate version of Windows 7. I can just stick with that and update it online can't I, or do I have to 'obtain' the real retail ISO?

[Lazlow]

eBay; if its too good to be true, it probably is.

[Pai Mel]

I'm going to take a gamble on this one. $27.91 AUD versus >$200 for Windows 7 Ultimate. Last time I got screwed on ebay I got my money back anyway. The seller has already sold 72 keys and no negative feedback has been given so far.

[Italian Stallion]

Supposedly they're MSDN/Technet keys, and if I follow correctly they can only be activated once. On top of that (afaik) they aren't for resale, so Microsoft can easily blacklist the keys. Also, who knows whether they key you get has already been sold off to someone else?

[Pai Mel]

Once only activation is ok for me as I'm not upgrading my hardware any time soon. After splurging $574 on a COD: MOW2 360 Elite (yes I caved in :(), I don't really want to give M$ any more of my monies. I'm totally broke now. So I hope I can get away with this key.

I've already been sent the serial; but my Windows 7 installation is RC candidate. Should I 'obtain' the retail ISO first and install that, or try to use the key on my existing installation?

[Richie]

How come everyone is so keen to get the new Windows, I mean I can't remember people jumping on board like this with Vista, articles on the net confirm that as well. I've read a few articles but don't understand what the fuss is all about, what attracts you to it personally?

[Dunkurtin]

Because Vista was a failure whereas XP wasn't.

[/backslash]

Because Vista was a failure whereas XP wasn't.
Pretty much. If you've ever tried out Windows 7 you'd be keen to upgrade from whatever you're using before. Its quicker, its easier to use (especially network file sharing which was confusing in Vista - sometimes working, sometimes not), the presentation is slick, its more stable etc etc

[Italian Stallion]

How come everyone is so keen to get the new Windows, I mean I can't remember people jumping on board like this with Vista, articles on the net confirm that as well. I've read a few articles but don't understand what the fuss is all about, what attracts you to it personally?
Because people tried running Vista on shitty hardware, realised it was made for well-specced PCs, reviews said it was shit because of that, everyone jumped on the Vista-hating bandwagon.

I guess it's Microsoft's fault for setting the real requirements too high, or setting the paper requirements too low, but there was little wrong with the OS. It needed some polishing around the edges, but it worked well.

Win 7 has improved on what Vista was, has made things that little bit easier & prettier. They've also toned down the actual system requirements a bit, meaning it'll work on a wider variety of PCs - it also doesn't hurt that people actually have PCs that they should've been running Vista on, now.

[Fenrir]

How come everyone is so keen to get the new Windows, I mean I can't remember people jumping on board like this with Vista, articles on the net confirm that as well. I've read a few articles but don't understand what the fuss is all about, what attracts you to it personally?
The people are scared of Vista because of bad initial publicity, but acknowledge that XP is garbage by today's standards. Hence Microsoft bundles up a few incremental addons that were probably on track for inclusion into Vista, whips up a few little GUI enhancements, sicks their low-level guns on general performance enhancements, and rebrands.

Essentially the technology and overarching philosophy pioneered by Vista with kinks ironed out.

Oh, and am I imagining it, or does this one cost more? :rolleyes:

EDIT:
(especially network file sharing which was confusing in Vista - sometimes working, sometimes not)
...I have no idea what you're on about. I've never noted any unexplainable problems sharing files over the network with Vista, at all.

[TrinityJayOne]

My OS history isn't brilliant, but isn't Vista the OS once codenamed "Longhorn", aka the one where a lot of good features were scrapped due to shareholders pushing for a timely release? Kinda makes sense that the next release is awesome.

[Pai Mel]

If you compare side by side with a Windows XP computer you will easily notice how clearer and smooth everything looks on Vista/Windows 7 specially text rendering. It's not just the shine factor of the Aero interface.

I've never wanted to upgrade to Vista but I've been on Windows 7 beta and then Release Candidate for more than four months and I don't want to go back to XP now.

That said I'm not exactly keen on paying $200 for the new OS but more than keen for a cheap legit way of having it. If I had to pay $200 for the new OS I'd actually rather wait till a hardware upgrade so I could get the cheaper OEM version.

There's also the keeping up-to-date factor. I don't want my tech knowledge getting obsolete so I have to stay current.

[Lazlow]

I still can't get over the fact they released XP with that default play-doh looking interface.

[Richie]

Ok seems like Windows 7 is slightly better, and for someone like me who simply doesn't tinker with any of this stuff except web browsing and music, its not gonna make much difference. Will wait till my next laptop I guess and I hope that's a while away.

[TAT]

I still can't get over the fact they released XP with that default play-doh looking interface.
Windows theme ftw?

Just on that note, you're a ****wit if you run Win7 with the Windows theme.

[/backslash]

EDIT:

...I have no idea what you're on about. I've never noted any unexplainable problems sharing files over the network with Vista, at all.
Well maybe it wasn't very compatible with my hardware, it seemed like everytime I tried to share a connection there was always some unexplained problem, like streaming media to my PS3 or just trying to share files with a friend's pc, one time it'd work, then the next time it wouldn't despite doing the same things as before

[Vicious]

Well maybe it wasn't very compatible with my hardware, it seemed like everytime I tried to share a connection there was always some unexplained problem, like streaming media to my PS3 or just trying to share files with a friend's pc, one time it'd work, then the next time it wouldn't despite doing the same things as before

What OS were they using? I remember getting Macs and XP to work with Vista was like pulling teeth (funny thing, Vista had stricter security standards).

Other than that I'd never had an issue with Vista. It did so many damn things right. Disk re-partitioning, integrated imaging backup, better sound device management, etc etc.

Italian Stallion pretty much hit the nail on the head. Early drivers, slow hardware, and poor PR is what drove Vista into the ground.

[StorminNorman]

How come everyone is so keen to get the new Windows, I mean I can't remember people jumping on board like this with Vista, articles on the net confirm that as well. I've read a few articles but don't understand what the fuss is all about, what attracts you to it personally?

Funny story, but apparently a while back, Microsoft setup a bunch of demo computers in a public location, and told people to try out a new OS they were developing. Most people were really impressed by the OS, finding it clean and easy to use.

They got a shock when Microsoft told them that this new OS was, in fact, stock Vista.

My OS history isn't brilliant, but isn't Vista the OS once codenamed "Longhorn", aka the one where a lot of good features were scrapped due to shareholders pushing for a timely release? Kinda makes sense that the next release is awesome.

Longhorn isn't Vista. From my understanding, sometime in early 2004, Microsoft more-or-less abandoned Longhorn development, took out all the features that they felt could be ready quickly, and built them into the codebase that was used for Windows Server 2003. They continued to apply the Longhorn codename to this new project, even though it was really a different thing.

The best way to think of it is that Longhorn is to Windows what Copland was to Mac OS.

EDIT: The wikitron has a better explanation. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_Windows_Vista)

[fishfishmonkeyhat]

Funny story, but apparently a while back, Microsoft setup a bunch of demo computers in a public location, and told people to try out a new OS they were developing. Most people were really impressed by the OS, finding it clean and easy to use.

They got a shock when Microsoft told them that this new OS was, in fact, stock Vista.

I remember someone on a podcast saying that was an odd marketing move at the time.

"Hey, the general public doesn't know anything about our product!"

"Alert the media."

[Pai Mel]

Which version of Windows 7 are you guys getting/going for? Is Home Premium severely limited in some way?

[Fenrir]

What OS were they using? I remember getting Macs and XP to work with Vista was like pulling teeth (funny thing, Vista had stricter security standards).
Well I assume getting Vista to play ball with an unpatched XP over the network would be like pulling teeth. There's a compatibility driver/patch/upgrade available for XP (and probably other legacy operating systems); I don't think Vista and XP are even meant to be compatible with each other over the network (beyond IP) without it.

[9warbane]

Which version of Windows 7 are you guys getting/going for? Is Home Premium severely limited in some way?

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-31012_7-10379487-10355804.html

good break down of the different features, so yeah Pro is the way to go it seems

I'm probably going with Professional. Depending on if I use the XP mode.

[Barefooted Hobo]

I have Pro. But I'm not going to upgrade till the end of semester since i have to reinstall all my programs I rely on to complete my work. :/

[Vicious]

Well I assume getting Vista to play ball with an unpatched XP over the network would be like pulling teeth. There's a compatibility driver/patch/upgrade available for XP (and probably other legacy operating systems); I don't think Vista and XP are even meant to be compatible with each other over the network (beyond IP) without it.

I didn't need a patch to get it to work, but I did need to lower the authentication standard to get it to work. Same with trying to get a Mac to work over Samba when I did it.

If there's an update that allows it to play nice great . . . but it's a bit late for me :p

[TAT]

I'm ****ing pissed off because 64-bit drivers don't exist for digital video cameras any older than a year or so.

My XP laptop ripped the footage but at an atrocious framerate so I have no choice but to dual boot my main PC with an XP install.

**** shit ****

EDIT:

And I don't want to hear that there's a workaround because I just accidentally deleted 3 years's worth of wrestling downloads

[Vicious]

And I don't want to hear that there's a workaround because I just accidentally deleted 3 years's worth of wrestling downloads

There's a work around, there always is.

[Fenrir]

I didn't need a patch to get it to work, but I did need to lower the authentication standard to get it to work. Same with trying to get a Mac to work over Samba when I did it.

If there's an update that allows it to play nice great . . . but it's a bit late for me :p
Hmm, they may've started bundling the patch in whatever updating mechanism XP used. (it really has been that long since I've maintained an XP install)

[fishfishmonkeyhat]

Mother ****er. I ran a registry cleaner that broke my pc so I couldn't even run the program (or any program for that mater) to load the registry backup.

Long story short my PC just went back in time a week.

Which is a pain in the ass since that week was WHEN I STARTED TO RE-INSTALL ALL MY GOD DAMNED ****ING PROGRAMS and I finished like yesterday. Also I deleted/rearranged a whole bunch of stuff on my HD that's also been undone.



I know what you're all thinking so don't say it. "****ing windows 7 sucks!"

[Fenrir]

I'm sorry, I have to say this much: don't use registry cleaners. Some people have been known to attest to their usefulness, but as far as I'm concerned all stated benefits are pure myth.

Also, especially don't pay for registry cleaners, if given the chance.

Anyway, significant registry damage can be the Windows equivalent of one of mother nature's creatures losing a limb and the side of its face - it gets ugly, dysfunctional and pathetic very quickly. I know because I'm living the nightmare right now while I try to figure out what I'm going to do about reinstalling.

EDIT: also might want to try one of those recovery disc-a-majigs.

[Vicious]

I use registry cleaners all the time and never had an issue . . . in fact I've had it fix more issues than not.

On the other hand I also perform regular backups weekly, just in case ;)

[fishfishmonkeyhat]

I use registry cleaners all the time and never had an issue . . . in fact I've had it fix more issues than not.

Well yes, up until yesterday that was my experience too.

[Fenrir]

in fact I've had it fix more issues than not.
What sort of issues?

[Vicious]

What sort of issues?

Namely stubborn apps that don't clean out all of their application keys during an uninstall causing an issue for a reinstall or a different application entirely. For example Norton on some computers I've been hired to fix in the past.

Of course there's various cleaners so it's hard to gauge which ones should be considered safe or not. I've been using the one included in ccleaner and have yet to see it cause an issue (I've been using it since XP in fact).

Regardless one should regularly backup their system and their registry anyway.

EDIT:

Blake, can you tell us which one caused your issue by chance?

[TAT]

There's a work around, there always is.
There's not. The usb drivers don't actually work for Win7 64-bit (even when the driver install file is run via XP compatibility), and even Win7 Help confirms that the series of (Sony) digital video cameras is unsupported.

It's too late now, my XP install is up and I'm ripping the video as I type this (from the laptop; I only installed enough on XP to do what I wanted, and I doubt I'll ever use it again).

[fishfishmonkeyhat]

Blake, can you tell us which one caused your issue by chance?

CleanMyPc reg cleaner.

I wish I'd thought to try ccleaner. Or backed up first.

It's too late now, my XP install is up and I'm ripping the video as I type this (from the laptop; I only installed enough on XP to do what I wanted, and I doubt I'll ever use it again).

So you didn't have the version of 7 with XP emu then?

[Vicious]

There's not. The usb drivers don't actually work for Win7 64-bit (even when the driver install file is run via XP compatibility), and even Win7 Help confirms that the series of (Sony) digital video cameras is unsupported.

Yeah, and I was told my Logitech webcam doesn't work either. I made it work. If it has a Vista driver there's a way.

Now if it hasn't been supported since XP . . . then you were absolutely screwed and I'll admit it. Without the model I wouldn't know though.

CleanMyPc reg cleaner.

I wish I'd thought to try ccleaner. Or backed up first.

Yeah, ccleaner is usually one of the more reserved registry apps . . . tends not to make a lot of waves by being as aggressive as some others.

[TAT]

So you didn't have the version of 7 with XP emu then?
No, as my CPU (E7400) doesn't support Virtualization.

Now if it hasn't been supported since XP . . . then you were absolutely screwed and I'll admit it. Without the model I wouldn't know though.
This is the case.

And after installing XP my Win7 install has ****ed up, but I've found a workaround (http://www.sevenforums.com/installation-setup/27270-dualboot-windows-7-64bit-rtm-xp-32-bit.html) ;)

[Fenrir]

Namely stubborn apps that don't clean out all of their application keys during an uninstall causing an issue for a reinstall or a different application entirely. For example Norton on some computers I've been hired to fix in the past.
Alright, that sounds fair enough.
There is a whole lot of debate surrounding app uninstall processes and the registry. Even the best apps are prone to leaving shit behind in the registry on uninstall due to separate user hives, inter-application dependencies, etc. Then there's the fact that users (often not the user uninstalling the app) may or may not want their settings scrapped just because the app itself has been removed (which is pretty reasonable), so coming up with an uninstall policy becomes difficult and app-specific (which is bad news considering the solution probably needs to be built into the fabric of Windows itself).
.NET seems to be represented as a full-circle kind of deal, throwing settings into XML files - which is probably a pretty apt conclusion since the .NET standards don't *have* a registry. So they may as well be INI files, and we're back to whatever problem prompted Microsoft to introduce a Registry in the first place.

But anyway, yeah, if installers don't know how to treat pre-existing keys (and *this* I'm pretty much willing to call poor software design on the app vendor's part), dive into the registry or use a tool. Also report a bug to the vendor if you can be ****ed, because dealing with prior keys should be part of the design specs.

And on Norton, in the interests of civility, no comment.

EDIT:
No, as my CPU (E7400) doesn't support Virtualization.
Bullshit, there are at least eleventy different suitable virtualization solutions out there, and maybe one of them (7's one) is whiney enough to expect CPU support.

[TAT]

Bullshit, there are at least eleventy different suitable virtualization solutions out there, and maybe one of them (7's one) is whiney enough to expect CPU support.
Well I don't really care about those other solutions because my CPU doesn't include the feature that would have allowed me to run XP through Win7.

[Vicious]

And on Norton, in the interests of civility, no comment.

Trust me, I despise Norton. Why do you think I was trying to uninstall it from PC's I was working on ;)

It's akin to malware IMO, that's how bad it is . . . especially with how tight it used to tie itself into a system.

This is the case.

Well then I'm sorry and retract my statement. You were really screwed then unfortunately.

[Fenrir]

@TAT: Well, alright, I don't know the Win7 solution terribly well and I'm not sure whether or not running XP on top of 7 is preferable in your case to just dual-booting, so I'll pipe down.

[TAT]

You were really screwed then unfortunately.
Only in the fact that of the two cameras we used to film a friend's wedding, the HDD camera sync'd straight away :(

@TAT: Well, alright, I don't know the Win7 solution terribly well and I'm not sure whether or not running XP on top of 7 is preferable in your case to just dual-booting, so I'll pipe down.
To be honest I assumed that installing XP onto a separate drive would automatically create a dual-booting situation (menu, etc) on my PC.

Not the case at all. I'm pretty angry about it, but it's all said and done now.

[Fenrir]

Oh, er, bootloaders aren't exactly heavy wizardry to deploy, really - it's the whole shutting-down of your main OS for the sake of a few utilities on the other one that shits me about dual booting.

[Starscream]

Anyone try using MAME or DosBox in Win7 yet?

[Cerebral]

Dosbox works fine.

[fishfishmonkeyhat]

It loads up all my Lemmings games fine.

I have to try loading that Vectrex emu through XP at some point to.

[Lex]

So I'm about to try an upgrade install, even though I never reigstered this copy of vista, hoping it won't be a problem. But then I got this when it did the compatibility check:

These devices might not work properly after the upgrade. Before upgrading, we recommend updating the drivers for these devices. Cancel the upgrade, open Control Panel and search for "update device drivers", or go to the device manufacturer's website to search for updated drivers.

o Storage controllers: A9ILZ8H2 IDE Controller

These programs might not work properly after the upgrade. We recommend uninstalling these programs before upgrading. Cancel the upgrade, open Control Panel, and search for "uninstall a program". (Note: Programs marked as * can be safely reinstalled after the upgrade.)

o Daemon Tools
o iTunes (Please deauthorize computer prior to upgrade)
o ATI CATALYST Install Manager *
o ATI Catalyst Control Center *
o Acrobat Reader 7


I'm fine with deleting the programs, but I can't find anything called A9ILZ8H2 IDE Controller, so I'm not sure wtf it's talking about.

Any ideas? Google wasn't much help.

[Silverwolf]

IDE controller suggests its either for an IDE hard drive or DVD drive. You may not even be using them.
I guess windows would install its own generic drivers if those didnt work anyway.

[Lex]

Lol nvm I'm just an idiot. It was just daemontools. **** this is a taking a long time, it's just been stuck at expanding windows 21% for ages.

[Silverwolf]

daemontools using IDE as a virtual drive? Interesting.

If you are upgrading from vista, then you are going to have a very long wait.

[TrinityJayOne]

Don't see how ATI CCC "not working properly" would be any different to the usual. /previously burnt nVIDIA user

[Lex]

Woodenscrewslol :P

[StorminNorman]

daemontools using IDE as a virtual drive?

AFAIK Windows doesn't have a loopback I/O device, so it probably has to.

I'm sure someone will correct me on this, though.

[Lex]

So Windows 7 is pretty freakin sweet. I'm just loving how responsive it is, and I'm not getting lagspikes, wooh!

[Pai Mel]

So I am still using Firefox on Windows 7. Is Internet Explorer good enough to change over to? (Although I do have a need for FireFTP on Firefox)

[9warbane]

Been using windows 7 ultimate 64 bit for a few days now and I'm really liking it. Windows decided to update my Ethernet drivers and then they stopped working. Reinstalled the ones I had before and fixed. I seem to have no sound from my speakers which is getting frustrating. When I plug in earphones, they work. Still trying to fix that.
Is Internet Explorer good enough to change over to?

Never.

EDIT: Also the gadgets are fun to mess around with.

Had to put 7 on a 80 GD IDE HDD, it's all I had spare, might get another hard drive on the weekend.

[JubeiSaotome]

Don't stick with firefox for the sake of it being firefox. Opera and Chrome are also worthy options.

[/backslash]

Shame that Opera doesn't have a decent 3rd party ad blocker though

[JubeiSaotome]

http://www.fanboy.co.nz/adblock/

[fishfishmonkeyhat]

My new desktop :D

http://home.exetel.com.au/backslashio/wallpaper.jpg

I raise you one http://i348.photobucket.com/albums/q321/fishfishmonkeyhat/Temp/th_win7desktop.jpg (http://s348.photobucket.com/albums/q321/fishfishmonkeyhat/Temp/?action=view&current=win7desktop.jpg) dual monitor setup with 50 gadgets and hacked-back-in video wallpaper!

Also; secret hidden thing!

[Vicious]

Shame that Opera doesn't have a decent 3rd party ad blocker though

It has an included ad blocker . . .

right click > block content . . .

Select what you want blocked, and if you want you can block the ads host entirely . . .

[/backslash]

It has an included ad blocker . . .

right click > block content . . .

Select what you want blocked, and if you want you can block the ads host entirely . . .
Already done that, downloaded an *.ini file with a million ads blocked, but I want a program that doesn't leave empty boxes behind where the ads used to be so I can get more screen room

@ Blake

Motorbikes>Turtles (unless they're Ninja Turtles, which they're clearly not), I win :p Also I prefer less clutter. Can't figure out the secret hidden thing you've got hiding, care to tell?

[9warbane]

Also; secret hidden thing!

An Asian lady boy porn collection?

[Vicious]

Already done that, downloaded an *.ini file with a million ads blocked, but I want a program that doesn't leave empty boxes behind where the ads used to be so I can get more screen room

Ad block on Firefox always leaves empty spaces for me too . . . I rarely can tell the difference between them . . .

EDIT:

Can you also link me to the ini and where to drop it? I could probably use it considering I only tend to block the most annoying stuff.

[/backslash]

Ad block on Firefox always leaves empty spaces for me too . . . I rarely can tell the difference between them . . .

EDIT:

Can you also link me to the ini and where to drop it? I could probably use it considering I only tend to block the most annoying stuff.
http://fanboy.co.nz/adblock/opera/urlfilter.ini

save this file into
(XP/W2K) C:\Documents and Settings\"your username"\Application Data\Opera\Opera\
(Vista/7) C:\Users\"your username"\AppData\Roaming\Opera\Opera\
(OSX) /Users/"your username"/Library/Preferences/Opera Preferences/
(Linux) ~/.opera/

Fanboy Adblock website (http://www.fanboy.co.nz/adblock/)

This website actually has frequent updates so all the ads you hate won't appear :) Also with Adblock for Firefox, there's an app called Adblock Plus that actually blocks it out properly

[Fenrir]

So hang on, you want an ad blocker that'll also violate the very structure of the page you're viewing in the name of "more screen room"? It doesn't really work that way. :rolleyes:

[Italian Stallion]

I dunno about that. Firefox for me removes the ads + blank spaces/boxes where the ads were, and it does it without ruining the layout at all..

[/backslash]

So hang on, you want an ad blocker that'll also violate the very structure of the page you're viewing in the name of "more screen room"? It doesn't really work that way. :rolleyes:
My roommate uses the same program I just mentioned and all of his webpages look a lot better than mine

[Fenrir]

We may be thinking of different ad layouting strategies, here. I'm talking about websites where a specific section in whatever main layout frames the content is "boxed" into its own separate compartment and designated for ads of specific dimensions, whereas you both may be referring to ads interspersed in text itself - the former would require a layout redesign to take advantage of the space, whereas the latter may reasonably free up space for text just by being removed.
I'm kinda of the impression that the former is more prevalent in our layout-heavy websites of today, but ymmv.

[fishfishmonkeyhat]

@ Blake

Motorbikes>Turtles (unless they're Ninja Turtles, which they're clearly not), I win :p Also I prefer less clutter. Can't figure out the secret hidden thing you've got hiding, care to tell?

I also have a video of Summer Glau dancing around that's pretty cool. Also once you get 2 monitors YOU'LL CRAVE CLUTTER!

An Asian lady boy porn collection?

OH JESUS!

EDIT: I mean yes!

[/backslash]

I've got 2 monitors now (BenQ 24" + my Samsung 22") but I really don't like dual setups, tried it, hated it

[tau]

I can imagine it feeling a little awkward with 2 screens of different sizes. After using dual screens, it's hard to go back.

[Halt, Hammerzeit]

I like dual screens if I have a purpose for it. I use dual screens at work, but at home, I really don't.

[Stevorooni]

I've had dual screens for the last 3 or 4 years (at work and at home) so I feel cluttered when forced to work with one.

[Halt, Hammerzeit]

The only thing I can think of that I might need two screens for at home is if I'm watching a movie and want to do something else on the computer at the same time, but I don't spend enough time on the computer for that.

I really need to try and get a second copy so I can get W7 on my desktop instead of just on my laptop.

[Lazlow]

It's pretty handy for design or A/V editing. Toolbars/Menus/Timeline on one screen, canvas on the other.

[Halt, Hammerzeit]

Don't get me wrong, I can see how it could be handy, I just have no use for it at home. I'll quite happily take a second screen at work, though (which is in the process of being installed, but there's been some issues that the IT department is dealing with).

[adam_91vn]

I could not live without them.

I watch tv on one, internet on the other.

[Lazlow]

Porn on one, porn on the other :D

[ElPresidente]

I couldn't live without multiple monitors. They make me much more efficient on the computer, particularly when doing statistical analysis for the purposes of writing a report.

Stats on one screen, report on the other. Alt-Tab begone! :P

[StorminNorman]

I've always found I prefer dual monitor setups where one monitor is smaller than the other (ie with a laptop+large desktop monitor setup). Keep all the toolboxes on the small monitor, and use the big monitor for the actual layout/design/retouching/etc.

It's a hangover from the SE/30 days, I think.

Then again, I've never had the room for two equal-size large monitors.

[/backslash]

I think dual screens would wear my eyes out more and make me more tired & also I'm always worried about unused power consumption since electricity is getting so expensive now. I'm just constantly thinking about the environment :p

My roommate uses dual screens, one's like a 13" & the other is a 22", most of the time his 2nd screen is just another desktop wallpaper

[tau]

lol dual 30 inchers.

It's a wall of lcd :D

[naclj]

i run dual screens all the time

screen 1 is a 22 inch lcd monitor and screen 2 is a 46 inch lcd monitor (aka TV)

media center controls the tv but i still surf the net/use office etc on the monitor.

anything that makes my unique setup easier is a ok with me.

(i missed the point that they are in different rooms).

but the moral of the story is dual monitors are something that once your in you can never get out. it kills me to be limited to a single monitor at work

[StorminNorman]

lol dual 30 inchers.

It's a wall of lcd :D

One really neat feature of SGI's Irix operating system was that you could specify the physical distance between each monitor, so that the system could take into account the real-world space between the monitors when drawing to multiple monitors.

You can actually see this in action in certain 1990s Hollywood films.

[/backslash]

Probably sounds like a stupid question but if I install Windows 7 on my laptop & then get a different laptop in the future I can easily format my HDD & then install Windows 7 on my new laptop right? I'm sure I can but I've never done it before although I have done formats on my PC before & done a fresh install of Windows

[Vicious]

Probably sounds like a stupid question but if I install Windows 7 on my laptop & then get a different laptop in the future I can easily format my HDD & then install Windows 7 on my new laptop right? I'm sure I can but I've never done it before although I have done formats on my PC before & done a fresh install of Windows

If you're using a retail, student, MSDN, or a OEM for builder version then yes (though using OEM for builders might be against the EULA).

All those "versions" are technically the same except for the EULA stipulations AFAIK.

Hope that helps.

[StorminNorman]

Dunno if its still the case, but changing the hardware underneath an XP OEM install usually required a call to Microsoft to "re-activate" it. I haven't had the same trouble with my OEM copies of Vista, though, so perhaps Windows 7 is better in that regard.

The whole product activation thing needs to die in a fire, though.

[Vicious]

The whole product activation thing needs to die in a fire, though.

This we agree on :D

[Fenrir]

Touchy subject - how else can Microsoft ensure positive revenue flow for Windows? (note: question not rhetorical)

Apple's solution is litigiously-enforced vertical integration, arguably the greater evil here. The Linux/BSD/GNU community obviously operate in a very different manner to Microsoft, and it isn't obvious that their revenue models would map well to Microsoft's product line.
Sun Microsystems is probably the most comparable organization, with FOSS variants of Solaris, StarOffice and Java on the market roughly lining up with Windows, MS Office and .NET - but their business model is largely hardware/service-based, they have an iron grasp of mid-tier enterprise to make money off of, and have significantly less end-user OS market penetration (and hence significantly smaller marketing/distribution/support/maintenance divisions in the sector) than Windows, or even Linux.

So, if not product activation, then what?

[Vicious]

Touchy subject - how else can Microsoft ensure positive revenue flow for Windows? (note: question not rhetorical)

Apple's solution is litigiously-enforced vertical integration, arguably the greater evil here. The Linux/BSD/GNU community obviously operate in a very different manner to Microsoft, and it isn't obvious that their revenue models would map well to Microsoft's product line.
Sun Microsystems is probably the most comparable organization, with FOSS variants of Solaris, StarOffice and Java on the market roughly lining up with Windows, MS Office and .NET - but their business model is largely hardware/service-based, they have an iron grasp of mid-tier enterprise to make money off of, and have significantly less end-user OS market penetration (and hence significantly smaller marketing/distribution/support/maintenance divisions in the sector) than Windows, or even Linux.

So, if not product activation, then what?

Microsoft gets the most of their money from corporate licensing. Large companies provide MS with their bread and butter.

The only thing activation stops is consumer or extremely small business pirates till a crack is made. On the other hand it hinders plenty more users in the process leaving a bad taste in my mouth.

[Pai Mel]

Most people buy laptops/desktops with pre-installed Windows OS though and it doesn't need activation, until they upgrade to the next version.