Why do you love or hate trophies/achievements?

[JubeiSaotome]

So, I'm writing an article on achievements and trophies. Why do you enjoy gaining achievements? What's your reasoning behind hating them?

[Sweating Bullets]

I quite like them purely for proof of bragging rights.

[Stevorooni]

I like them because some of them let you get more out of a game.

I'm not a whore with them though, I won't seek out every single one when I know they involve more effort than I'm willing to put in, but some of the more doable ones are like a todo list of stuff to finish off within a game.

I wish they were more tied into how 'completed' the game is though, rather than completing insane combos or buying 500 sodas from a vending machine (hello Bully on 360).
The thing I like about GTA games is that once you reach 100% in the statistics you know you've done everything you can do in the game, I'd like achievements/trophies to be that sort of indicator for all games



EDIT: You can quote me if you want

[FrozenSoul80]

I like them because it makes me feel like I'm getting something for the effort I put in. Sure, it's a meaningless number, but it makes you feel good inside seeing that gamerscore slowly grow.

I also like the optional added challenges it adds to a game. I feel it helps extend the game or perhaps gives me an incentive to go back and try for some of them.

[adam_91vn]

I don't actually try and get them. I just play the game through like I normally would. Don't really have the time.

My crappy score reflects this.

[Super Sleuth]

I like when you are rewarded with a trophy for pulling off something special in game. Specifically when you are not aware of the trophy's existence. There's something satisfying about seeing that little notification pop up on the screen when you are not expecting it. But chasing them for the sake of points, no thanks.

[JubeiSaotome]

Actually, are people okay with me quoting them in the article?

[Super Sleuth]

I don't mind.... that's if you actually wanted to use my poorly constructed feedback.

[FrozenSoul80]

I'm fine with being quoted.

[Watchers]

It is nice to get an unexpected 'congratulations' for doing something particularly cool/hard, but there is no way I'd bother doing something unenjoyable just for the sake of achievement points.

[Super Sleuth]

Like replaying the game in evil mode...ala Fallout 3.

[Lazlow]

In all honesty I nothing them, they have no afffect on my experience with a game or the way I play it. I don't set out with a specific goal of trying to attain them, and if I happen to score one, it doesn't really bother me.

I will admit though that I find it perculiar that some people persist with achievements/trophies that they don't seem to enjoy, for what is essentially shallow bragging rights. So I probably dislike them in the sense that there can be a pathetic pissing contest between gamers.

But as has been mentioned, some can be genuinely enjoyable challenges, so in some respects they can extend the life of a game. But then, with any game you can essentially set your own challenges, so again it comes back to the pissing contest and having your efforts on display for the whole world to see.

When you think about it achievments and trophies are an extension of our own narcissistic tendencies.

EDIT: oh, and no problems being quoted.

[JubeiSaotome]

here's what I love and hate about achievements.

Love
* Extra goals in games, more prominent than secret areas that are only found through guides.
* Conversational point; "Hey, you're up to chapter 5, I hated that boss!"

Hate
* Elitism behind achievements. Mostly in WoW, people will check your achievements before allowing you to raid with them.
* Pointless achievements, see flower's 10 minute break and return after 3 days trophies.

[Blue]

They're generally pointless. People feel like they need to do something just to get a number.

Having said that, it also depends on the game. I might feel like I want to try to get 1000 points in Halo 3, for instance, because the achievements are fun. But some games use achievements as a replacement for genuinely interesting unlockable content, or proper in-game modes and objectives. The 'complete the game without dying' achievement might be put in as a replacement for a proper hard mode, for instance.

Until achievements give you something more worthwhile than just a number, I couldn't care less. If they gave you in-game money each time you scored one, they'd be worth aiming for. As it stands, I just stumble across them.

Also, I can't be the only one who's thought it would be cool if you could use the icon from any unlocked achievement as your gamerpic. That way, you could display your biggest achievement as a sort of badge. Or there could be a box under your name and location listing your favourite achievement. These are just things that could make them a little more interesting and useful.

EDIT: Prominent, not promenant.

[RunningMild]

My feeling towards them is neutral. When they're there, they're a fun little extra, but when they're not, I don't notice/care.

Some achievements are good for teaching you new things about a game, like when you see one and you think 'I never knew you could do that, I want to try it now'.

I don't understand how people can get obsessed over them though. For example, when IGN asked people what they wanted in the next PSP, people were saying that it needs to have trophy support. I personally don't think the PSP needs achievements at all, because to me they're just a nice little extra, not something that's vital to my enjoyment of a game or anything. Besides, I doubt the PSP could handle worldwide leaderboards to compare gamerscores when most games don't even have basic online multiplayer... ;)

Also, I don't mind being quoted.

[Super Sleuth]

I will admit though that I find it perculiar that some people persist with achievements/trophies that they don't seem to enjoy, for what is essentially shallow bragging rights. So I probably dislike them in the sense that there can be a pathetic pissing contest between gamers.


Yep.

Seriously, anyone who has bought/rented Avatar - The Burning Earth just to get the easy gamer points should reevaluate the important facets of their lives.

[Citizen Erased]

I love hearing that "pop up" noise everytime I get a trophie. I hate that there are too many bronze trophies/achievements in games today. Look at anyone gamerscore and you see what I mean.

[sausage]

Achievements are like being a savant; you're retarded but you're also really really good at something.

You can quote.

[ScToTeE]

I'm a recovering gamerscore whore...

In the past I've had motivation issues with completing games. Achievements rectified that. It made me strive towards finishing games, or completing more of games than I normally would have (100%, hard difficulty etc.). It was also a form of bragging rights and, when a friend or two were online, actually gave us a reason to play a certain game as opposed to wasting away countless hours on Halo 3. I found that, with the invention of achievements, I have completed more games, experienced a greater diversity of games and had a direct goal for playing multiplayer. That's not to say playing multiplayer for aimless fun is bad, it's not, just that I'd rather use my twelve months of Live playing a broader range of titles, with goals in mind, than spending $90 to waste on simply Halo 3 and Gears of War 2.

Play to get the achievements, move onto next game.

HOWEVER!

I became too attached to my 25, 000 + gamerscore. And so when, early this month, a problem with the Windows Live ID linked to my parent account (which I can't recall the email for) started hindering my access to Live, and then my profile got lost in the gamertag recovery service (which isn't operating at the moment. Be warned!), I felt terrible. A bit TOO terrible. It's just a score. But it has a tendency to cause obsession. So in that respect, maybe it's a bad thing. I don't know. If indeed my profile has been lost to eternal abyss of nothingness, perhaps it was a good thing. Just means I'll have to make reference to it in a new profile to highlight my accomplishments in GTA IV (100%), GOW2 (Rank 50) and others.

Another possible negative is that my achievement obsession led to the neglecting of other consoles, particularly my Wii and DS. I've bought a load of cheap PS2 and XBOX games as well, and haven't touched them because of my desires to increase the holy gamerscore. Now, with a PS3 to boot and plenty of older games lying around ignored, I can't become too obsessed with the gamerscore. Otherwise a LOT of money has been wasted.

So there are significant postives and negatives. Good luck with article.

[freeradical]

Well, i'm a self confessed gamescore whore! All them games for easy achiements, you bet!! Avatar, Cars, King kong, yep, played for every 1000 points that they are worth. Do i care what others think about my whoring? Nope. I have the right to wave my epenis about the place, and potentially have the insignificant honour of it being bigger than someone else's. Another way to look at it is to think about some of the atrocious games us whores have had to endure to get that 1000 points!
Whore for score.

[Zzz]

I remember specifically stating that I would not go back and start a new game for Burnout Paradise after the trophies ended up not being retroactive. Since that statement I have gone back and started a new game for the trophies. Also, I've made new games for GTA IV and Uncharted, for the purpose of playing the game again and getting trophies.

I'm not sure why, though. If I had to guess, I think it's because I get a kick out of working through lists and that trophy page on my PS3 is one huge list waiting to be checked off. The ding sound is the equivalent to a running a huge line through a completed task with a big marker. It can be very satisfying.

Just as a comparison, do people get the same kick from the in-game challenges that don't have corresponding trophies/achievements? Is it for the score, or is it because the challenge is there?

[Xanafalgue]

Don't care, I've been at 13K forever.

[Stevorooni]

I've only ever bothered to get 1000/1000 gamerpoints once, and that was in Bully and I only did it just to see if I could.

I've come close to 100% trophies (92%) in inFamous but I couldn't find the last shard so I gave up on the rest.

[Zan]

I pay no attention to achievements, but I'm the sorta of person that doesn't go out of their way to explore bonus content. That said they don't detract from a game so they don't bother me. Sometimes amusing achievements can be quite clever and good for a chuckle (double Bang Install).

If I was a raid leader now, I'd love WoW achievements. Having some sort of history to go off would help heaps, and you can set goals for potential raiders to meet before trialing.

[Spazzallo]

Love it. Probably love it so much that it has contributed to my Wii rotting in the cupboard. Why play a game for no points?! :P

[StorminNorman]

My attitude to video games has always been "If you're not playing for score, you're not playing."

Make of that what you will.

[AranchineD]

When achievements are done right I think they go a long way towards extending the playtime and enjoyment one can get out of a game. Playing through NG2 with only one weapon, for example, is probably not something you'd think to do on your own, and even if you did you'd probably cop out occasionally. With the strict rules of the achivement though, I think it gives a little extra incentive to completing that sort of challenge.


And I still wish more games took a leaf out of Mass Effect's book and gave you in-game rewards for getting achievements, in that case they do feel more than just superficial points.

But yeah, to sum it up, I don't play for the point scores attached to the achievements (well, in most cases >_>) but rather the challenge in themselves that many of them can offer (still working on the 'Hit every green note on Blood & Thunder on Drums'!)

[Afrogamer]

I think they are a cool inclusion, im not a whore for em but i think some are fun to get others not so much. But i was a little whore for resident evil 5 though :D

[Manny M]

Pros: Achievements give you objectives to attempt outside of the normal boundaries of the game, so they're great in increasing the longevity of the game and in some cases your enjoyment of the game. There are a few rare cases where, if not for achievements, you would not even think something capable in a game. I think striving to complete all objectives is what makes people attempt to complete achievements... moreso than the 'bragging rights' one gets with a high gamerscore.

Cons: But on the topic of gamerscores, my gripe with a 'reward' system associated with achievements is that a score is hardly a reward (especially for some of the more gruelling achievements). I feel that tangible rewards would be great, and they only have to be something as simple as a free theme for your console, or an unlockable in the game. If the score you accumulate could be used toward something, then it would be fantastic (and a greater incentive to pursue).

I also don't like that someone's 50 point achievement that took a mere 10 mins is equal to another's 50 point achievement that took a lot of skill. I think Sony has a better idea with the trophy system in that regard.


Overall, i'm all for the direction games have taken in regards to achievements. Generally speaking they give you an avenue to get the most out of a game... and if I can lament anything, it's that they weren't around when I was a kid... a time when I had more time than games, not the other way around like it is today. :)

[Sweating Bullets]

No problems with getting quoted

[SOX]

I feel that tangible rewards would be great, and they only have to be something as simple as a free theme for your console, or an unlockable in the game.

Halo 3 was the first game I played with Achievements and it nailed this completely. As you worked through the various achievements you got access to different pieces of armour for multiplayer and there was the prize at the end for 1000/1000 - the Marathon helmet and a sword.
I only wish more games went along those lines!

[borgster101]

Games have had "achievements" for ages, it's only now that they are integrated into a "single system", i.e. Advance Wars has "achievements" within the game itself.

Hence:

Love
Achievements/Trophies provide an overall summary of one's progress in their entire games collection, it allows for easy comparisons between friends to see where people are up to in a game, and thus stems conversations points.

It's a great way to "compete" against friends in single player based games.

It provides some satisification and reward with earning them.


Hate
Achievement/trophy whores. People who buy and play Barbie's Horse Adventure to accumulate achievement points.

Stupid achievements that simply take too long to earn, and are not feasible in normal circumstances; i.e. defeat 500,000 enemies etc.

People who will not buy good games because of trophies aren't supported (i.e. Valkyria Chonicles) and hence, people who will play and buy shit games because achievements are easy (i.e. the extreme achievement/trophy whore).

Inconsitency between games - i.e. achievement points and the bronze, silver, gold system are meaingless .. in that each game has it's own system, and the level of difficulty to earn an achievement with the same value varies greatly.


So overall, I'd say I'm indifferent, I like them for certain things, but then I equally hate them for other stuff.

[Slippery]

Just before reading all the responses here I'd been thinking a bit about how I hadn't finished my second run-through of inFamous as evil on Hard to get my first platinum. Then I remembered I'm like halfway through Valkyria Chronicles and Super Metroid and maybe 85% of the way through The Darkness - none of which have trophies.

I've done the find every shard, save all the islands trophies in inFamous so at this point I feel like not finishing on hard makes that a waste. On the other hand, I don't really want to play it anymore and as such playing more would be a waste.

This basically results in me saying "I'll play it later, just not now" and never actually coming back to it.

The Darkness I'll try and knock off over the weekend or sometime during the week, just so I can say I finished it. VC I'm saving till I finish Uni for the year and can get back into it proper. It's quite probable I'll never pick up Super Metroid again and instead sink another 9 hours into TF2 over the weekend.


... Lotsa achievements in TF2 ;)

Edit: Quotable

[StorminNorman]

Stupid achievements that simply take too long to earn, and are not feasible in normal circumstances; i.e. defeat 500,000 enemies etc.

"Gather as many swimsuits as you can with Kasumi." (http://www.achieve360points.com/game/deadoralivextreme2/)

[Jickle]

I don't quite get why people hate on 'achievement whores'. If there are people out there who really enjoy playing for points (www.1milliongamerscore.com), how is that any less valid than the way anyone else plays? If someone is judging you based on your score or being a dick about it in any way that's a different story though.

Achievement design can really help a game. I wrote a bit about it on IGN a while back: (http://au.pc.ign.com/articles/100/1003275p2.html)
Recently these sorts of shenanigans are even being encouraged by some developers, as best exemplified by the achievement in Half-Life 2: Episode Two for carrying the garden gnome throughout the entire game. So far, these kinds of challenges have been the domain of the hardest of the hardcore, but more games, through achievements and trophies, are encouraging small-scale mini-challenges on a level by level basis. Geometry Wars 2 is another great example – most of the achievements there, such as the Wax On/Wax Off wall-hugging achievements, encourage the player to find new ways of playing with the game outside of the established rules. Achievements and trophies, when implemented to recommend challenges that hardcore gamers have been devising for years, can increase the lifespan of some games exponentially – who else is seriously considering playing through Prototype again but aiming for minimum civilian consumes?

I think achievements are great, as long as they encourage you to have more fun with the game. I spent ages trying to get the car-flipping one in GTA IV, and it was very satisfying when I pulled it off. Same thing happened with the 'kill 15 people at once with Whipfist' achievement in Prototype and the 'finish a Left 4 Dead campaign just using pistols' achievement. The 'Party Pooper' achievement in Batman encouraged me to start what turned into one of my favourite fights of the game. On the other hand, there are some achievements that are just stupid - killing 100,000 guys in Gears of War 2 is probably a good sign that you need to get out more, considering I've plugged a great many hours in the game and only hit about 4000.

[Starscream]

Jickle: I'm working on that Seriously 2.0 achievement on Gears 2! :P

See you on online and we'll work on those other Horde achievements. ;)

Achievements/Trophies are fine as long as I can access the unlockables afterwards.

[Cian]

I love achievements, much more so than the trophy system on PS3. They make you work at certain aspects of the gameplay and you can set out goals for yourself (highest difficulty, certain amount of kills etc.)

What I dislike are secret achievements (unless they're story related). Or, achievements that have a riddle for their meaning such as; 'Let's Get Physical!' or something along those lines.

[igotnewsuper8systemWRONG!]

I like trophies, and I didn't really realise it until the other other day whilst playing okami on ps2. Upon finishing the game, I couldn't help but feel a little empty as I wasn't greeted with the familiar trophy sound that you would no doubt receive upon finishing a ps3 game.

Also, not to sound like a trophy whore, but certain trophies can really add a lot of replayability to games. For example, you could be really bored, just messin around with your ps3 or 360, stop and take a look at your trophy list, think to yourself, "hey I can do that", you've got a reason to go back to an old game.

I can't say I really go out of my way to get any trophies though, evident by the fact that I have close to 400 trophies and not a single platinum and only 3 golds.

[AranchineD]

Or, achievements that have a riddle for their meaning such as; 'Let's Get Physical!' or something along those lines.

Oh, I quite like these actually, if they're done cleverly and not completely obscure. Like a little adventure game puzzle or something, they're usually something different in the context of the game, which is nice.

[dinopoke]

Pretty much everything I wanted to say has already be said so I'll just post Achievement Unlocked (http://armorgames.com/play/2893/achievement-unlocked).

[Allick]

I like trophies because I'm retarded and for some reason enjoy recieving virtual worthless gifts for spending hours doing tedius tasks such as eating 100 000 fish instead of actually enjoying my game.

quote THAT:p

[Manny M]

He probably won't, because it was a stupid comment.

[Vindik8or]

I hate achievements because they are a cheap and artificial way of extending the life of a game without actually addressing the gameplay directly.

That said, in a game like Team Fortress 2 they integrate well and actually have a purpose (except for those ridiculous weeks after the Spy/Sniper patch that I choose to ignore). That said in a competitive environment like TF2 people just end up going for the achievement servers (myself included) to get the latest toys to keep up with the changes.

In conclusion, achievements are breast enlargement surgery. In the very best case you have something that looks good but the illusion is ruined when you touch it. In all other cases they are horrendous and gross.

[Allick]

He probably won't, because it was a stupid comment.

Nice trolling, keep it up

[Blue]

Nice trolling, keep it upNice justification of shit posts, keep it up.

[Allick]

Nice justification of shit posts, keep it up.

Yeah because me making a post about what the thread is actually about is a shit post, but when people complain about it without justifying their complaints those posts aren't shit. NOW it makes sense to me

[immol8]

Trophies/Achievements - tearing the gamer community apart.

[sausage]

jEEZ WE CAN'T GO 2 PAGES ON ANYTHING WITHOUT A DUST UP.


Also, just realised my caps lock was on. Make of that what you will.

[RunningMild]

Games have had "achievements" for ages, it's only now that they are integrated into a "single system", i.e. Advance Wars has "achievements" within the game itself.

Other good examples are Smash Bros and Soul Calibur games. They have in-game trophies and rewards whether the console does or not.

[Manny M]

Nice trolling, keep it up

Mate, trolling is posting antagonistic babble... which your 'take' on the topic clearly was.

You don't like them, and that's fine, but to state that fact by providing such an overly generalised and ignorant reason was just what I said... stupid.

Plenty of people here have given very valid reasons as to why they don't like them, but to say you need to be retarded to find value, and to also try to back up that point by referring to such a ridiculous 'achievement' was again... stupid.

[Allick]

Mate, trolling is posting antagonistic babble... which your 'take' on the topic clearly was.

You don't like them, and that's fine, but to state that fact by providing such an overly generalised and ignorant reason was just what I said... stupid.

Plenty of people here have given very valid reasons as to why they don't like them, but to say you need to be retarded to find value, and to also try to back up that point by referring to such a ridiculous 'achievement' was again... stupid.

Oh fair enough, the thing is that I actually do enjoy trophies, and I couldn't really think of a reason why other than me being silly. Now i can clearly see how you thought I was against trophies as I was really tired last night, so couldn't really think too hard about wat I was posting. What I was trying to say is that for me trophies are fun when you get them and spend time trying to get them, but when you look back at it they seem silly. Last night i thought people would've seen the point of my post, but now I can see how they easily wouldn't.

Anyway I hope that's all straightened out, and I hope my commentswerent too angry or anything:)

[ScToTeE]

Weirdly enough, I initially understood the self-mocking meaning of your post. Looking back at it, I have no idea how I arrived at that conclusion ...

Good to see senseless flame wars aren't necessarily the way to go on these boards.

[FX-GTZ]

I only play 4 games that use the achievement system, TF2, WoW, and GTAIV, i think Fallout 3 use's them too. I dont mind achievements, though discouraging *blocked* ones are a bit annoying.

[Watchers]

Good to see senseless flame wars aren't necessarily the way to go on these boards.

But they are the best way.

<_<

[ScToTeE]

I'm not going to disagree with that statement. :D

[sausage]

Me neither; hey, we should have achievements for flame wars!!

The "make another member lose their rag" trophy would be especially sweet.

[Afrogamer]

Me neither; hey, we should have achievements for flame wars!!

The "make another member lose their rag" trophy would be especially sweet.

Maybe some member specific ones....(bear in mind they are very gay)

"Sausage sizzle"
"BurningSoul80"
"FlaminNormin"

[Lex]

I hate achievements because they are a cheap and artificial way of extending the life of a game without actually addressing the gameplay directly.

That said, in a game like Team Fortress 2 they integrate well and actually have a purpose (except for those ridiculous weeks after the Spy/Sniper patch that I choose to ignore). That said in a competitive environment like TF2 people just end up going for the achievement servers (myself included) to get the latest toys to keep up with the changes.

In conclusion, achievements are breast enlargement surgery. In the very best case you have something that looks good but the illusion is ruined when you touch it. In all other cases they are horrendous and gross.

...what? It's just a new set of objectives, nobody is claiming they do anything to effect the gameplay, that would be silly. Do you really object to a company, when the game is all finished, adding new objectives to that game for replay? I honestly don't see how you can oppose extra, optional gameplay. It's not like the time that could have been used making a new level was spent on achievements... Unless you actually think that??

[Vindik8or]

See if you can use just one more ellipsis and rhetorical question, Lex, I'm sure you've got it in you.

[Lex]

soooo no answer then?

that's ok, I figured you were just throwing out an opposing opinion for the sake of it.

[igotnewsuper8systemWRONG!]

I would have loved achievements/trophies when I was a kid, back when I couldn't really help the fact that I was getting maybe 2 games per year.

Not that I have anything against them now, just saying.

[VanAce]

I have a mate who abuses the EB Games 7 day returns policy just so he can get achievements on his PS3

[Queenie]

In wow, I like them because many require effort put into them, and that is a reward in itself.

A minus is some achievements for dungeons- playing only casually, i must pretty much always pug for a group willing to do these, which may take hours- before I even head into the dungeon.

Another minus is many of the achievements just require an amount of time to be put into the game. Perhaps like playing every day, which I just can't do. Yet.

[Watchers]

In wow, I like them because many require effort put into them, and that is a reward in itself.


Putting in effort is a reward?

[Banjo Tooie]

I spent a good deal of time getting 1000/1000 for Batman: Arkham Asylum and Assassin's Creed. That being said, Assassin's Creed was the first game I owned, and the only one I had at the time, and with Batman I wanted to be one of the first in the world to fully complete it, just to tell my grandkids.

[jawsy]

Banjo, I just spoke to your grandkids and they're falling asleep.

[Marble]

Who needs anything other than the satisfaction of playing and improving at an awesome game? The purpose of "Achievements" is to make crap players feel like they've actually accomplished something by showering them in compliments just because they've played the game for 10 hours or whatever.

Although I'm sure there are achievements in some games that ask you to complete a game in one credit, beat it in a really fast time etc. but the players who really love what they are playing and have a desire to improve will aim for these goals regardless of whether you get a virtual trophy for it or not.

[Second]

In console games I'll play games and if the achievement is "on the way" I'll get it. I generally don't bother with the grindy stuff or playing it past the point of fun. My brother is a Gamerscore whore though, so I end up playing a few games I normally wouldn't play or helping him get his achievements.

In WoW I find myself getting them just because most seem to lead to unique rewards. I ignore the ones in sections I know I won't play (i.e. PvP ones) and try for the more casual ones. I really like collecting mounts though, so I end up grinding like a mother****er to try and get those achievements that reward them.

[ScToTeE]

Who needs anything other than the satisfaction of playing and improving at an awesome game? The purpose of "Achievements" is to make crap players feel like they've actually accomplished something by showering them in compliments just because they've played the game for 10 hours or whatever.

Although I'm sure there are achievements in some games that ask you to complete a game in one credit, beat it in a really fast time etc. but the players who really love what they are playing and have a desire to improve will aim for these goals regardless of whether you get a virtual trophy for it or not.

Yep. Beating Call of Duty 4 on Veteran is a cinch for all crap players. ;)

Yeah, I did read your second paragraph. I actually do agree with the gist of your argument. Just felt like bragging anyway ... :D

[Second]

Yep. Beating Call of Duty 4 on Veteran is a cinch for all crap players. ;)

Yeah, I did read your second paragraph. I actually do agree with the gist of your argument. Just felt like bragging anyway ... :D

Mile High Club, Brother? :P

[ScToTeE]

Hahah.

Nah. No. Nope. Never.

Ever.

[REQUIEM]

I dont go looking for them, I like the little suprise when they just happen.

Latest one was for finishing a race on 2 wheels on Dirt2.

[Queenie]

Putting in effort is a reward?

completing the achievement is it's own reward, bad grammar on my part.

example: Less-Rabi

stopping him from turning into mammoth needs spell interrupts.

however, as his health gets lower, cast time gets faster. So at the end, you need supremely good coordination between the group to get this.

or consumption junction:

don't let his thing reach 10 stacks. he gets them after he explodes npcs that periodically spawn.

so we had to put him in a corner and then get him out of it to dps but also so he couldn't consume us (party members counted towards it too).

[Melas]

Anyone remember the "achievements" in GoldenEye64? trying to get 11 seconds on the runway ? unlocking characters and weapons and such for multi-player... someone help me here I'm a little rusty on my GoldenEye knowledge.

But anyway Achievements are great. If done right. the only game I've really tried to be an Achievement whore with is GRAW2. and its fairly epically good fun for me playing that game in any case. i think I'm about 1150 out of 1250 at the moment.

I forgot where I was going with this. Achievement/trophies = good, if done right.

[Ad-Rock]

They make games far more addictive by adding the illusion that you've actually achieved something. It's for that reason I hate them.

[banjoeskimo]

Good things about achievements

-They're a good way of letting gamers share progress with one another, start conversations ("Man, that level 5 boss was a bitch, wasn't it?" etc) and can, at their best, encourage social engagement with games.

-When attached to meaningful and genuine accomplishments in a game (i.e. reaching 100% in Batman or GTA, not an arbitrary kill count like Seriously 2.0 in Gears of War 2) they're a nice badge of honour and make for great public bragging rights. It's the modern day equivalent of having a high score at the arcade.

-They can be used to encourage experimentation and exploration within a game, allowing players to garner knowledge they might not discover on their own. For example, having a small achievement associated with catching a batarang in Batman, pulling off 100% power parking in Burnout Paradise or performing active reloads in Gears of War meant helped me find those features right from the get go.

-They can be damn fun to get. I had a great laugh getting the "Irony" achievement in BioShock, just as I did getting "Ride The Lightning" in RE5. On the more complicated side of things, getting some sort of reward for pulling off an impressive feat (i.e. beating a game on hard) always feels good.

Not so great things about achievements

-They can be artificial game lengtheners. Anything that's tied to a huge kill count or the like. It's cheap, it's not skill based, and usually it's just there to keep people playing online and make the game seem popular. Lame.

-They can break proper gameplay. I can't count the number of times I lost games in the original Gears of War because my teammate was too focused on getting the kill achievements with a specific weapon than actually assisting me win the match. As a general rule of thumb, if an achievement is going to fundamentally alter the way in which someone plays through an entire game, chances are you're hurting the experience. This goes double for online play.

-Negative achievements. I haven't seen these outside of Guitar Hero III, but seriously? I just failed, okay. Don't rub it in by giving me an achievement for doing so.

-Absolutely useless, pointless, disconnected achievements that have little or nothing to do with normal gameplay and aren't fun to get. Again, these are rare, but Guitar Hero III gets another nod for having an achievement associated with beating the game using a regular controller. Worse still? There's an achievement for winning 15 consecutive matches online doing this. Absolutely f---ing retarded. Going to go out on a limb and say GH III has the worst achievements I've seen in a game.

-Achievements that rely too heavily on random factors or other players. Anything that requires me to sink hours of my time into maybe, maybe finding someone online that isn't retarded generally isn't fun. If it's a one off thing, that's not too bad, but something like Burnout Paradise where I have to finish 250 online challenges with up to 8 people? Please. Have you met 8 people on XBL? 50% of them are guaranteed to be brain damaged. Don't fundamentally tie my success to the whims of the retarded public unless you either have a very good reason for doing so, or there's actually a realistic chance I'll be able to get the achievement.