Pro Evolution Soccer '10

[proofreeder]

I would consider this possibly the greatest video gaming series of all time and contrary to popular opinion, it keeps getting better. Demo's up on Xbox Live. Anyone interested in this besides myself?

[Ashmaran]

I've been a long time fan of the series, bought a few titles along the way, last one being the 09 version. Graphics are really impressive in this year's demo, but the fifa demo is playing a bit better. I think their 360 degree control is making a difference.

[Cian]

I would consider this possibly the greatest video gaming series of all time and contrary to popular opinion, it keeps getting better. Demo's up on Xbox Live. Anyone interested in this besides myself?

I was a pretty hardcore PES player back in the day...until they got lazy and took the arcade approach. Pro Evo hasn't been at it's best since the 2006 version, so it has a lot to prove. But Fifa seems adamant on holding onto it's football crown, and from what I've played of the demo....I simply can't see it being beat. Although the graphics in PES look superb this year, it's definitely one area where it challenges Fifa.

However, I'm still sticking with Fifa this year, especially because of the far superior online content. It's been the best football simulator for the past two years and if you deny that, you're too biased. The two games should be much closer this time around, PES was miles behind in 2008 and 2009.

Let the fanboy battle commence! (just like last year when Proofreeder was too blind to pick out the superior title)

[proofreeder]

Let the fanboy battle commence! (just like last year when Proofreeder was too blind to pick out the superior title)

You remember that huh? Ha ha. Man, that seems so much more than a year ago, normally it's the other way round for me, I think things just seem like yesterday. You were under a different alias back then though.

Kinda hoping it wouldn't turn into Pes vs... er, what's that other game called again? But it's probably inevitable.

Again, like I did last year, I will download that "other" demo also and play this with an open mind.

I've played the PES demo a couple of times already. Feels kind of similar to '09to be honest, but I'm hoping the improved subtleties of play require time to appreciate. I read a report they are making it more "simulative" this year (my made up word, not the report's). One thing I like so far is the "wide" camera mode is zoomed out further, thus displaying more of the play. One thing I did prefer about that other game was the perspective.

[Cian]

You remember that huh? Ha ha. Man, that seems so much more than a year ago, normally it's the other way round for me, I think things just seem like yesterday. You were under a different alias back then though.

Kinda hoping it wouldn't turn into Pes vs... er, what's that other game called again? But it's probably inevitable.

Again, like I did last year, I will download that "other" demo also and play this with an open mind.

I've played the PES demo a couple of times already. Feels kind of similar to '09to be honest, but I'm hoping the improved subtleties of play require time to appreciate. I read a report they are making it more "simulative" this year (my made up word, not the report's). One thing I like so far is the "wide" camera mode is zoomed out further, thus displaying more of the play. One thing I did prefer about that other game was the perspective.

Yeah I always make a custom camera angle. Zoomed out and up high to the max!

The PES demo is just over a gig so I really can't afford to download it, otherwise I'll go over my limit which could be used for nekkid ladies. But I would urge you to spend more time with Fifa, especially online....that's where it's in a world of it's own. Gotta love the club system. (when it works)

[REQUIEM]

Havent played it since PES07, so why would I change now? I used to love soccor games but lost the attraction and as I said havent played it for a couple of years. Is it a better game now and why.

[Cian]

Havent played it since PES07, so why would I change now? I used to love soccor games but lost the attraction and as I said havent played it for a couple of years. Is it a better game now and why.

Where did you find a copy of PES2007? Such a game doesn't exist.

Asking is it better than a few years ago is a bit silly because it's all down to personal preference.

[REQUIEM]

Where did you find a copy of PES2007? Such a game doesn't exist.

Asking is it better than a few years ago is a bit silly because it's all down to personal preference.

My bad, its been a while it was PES 6 , just blew the dust of it. Same question applies. I was a fifa fan but pes 6 was supposed to be better than the fifa conterpart so I bought the pes however it turned me off soccor sims so I went to NHL. No flame or troll intentions.

[Cian]

My bad, its been a while it was PES 6 , just blew the dust of it. Same question applies. I was a fifa fan but pes 6 was supposed to be better than the fifa conterpart so I bought the pes however it turned me off soccor sims so I went to NHL. No flame or troll intentions.

PES was the better game that year but the two titles that followed were shit. Fifa took over with the 2008 version.

It's definitely worth getting back into football games, you can pick up Fifa 09 cheaply now if money is an issue.

[REQUIEM]

PES was the better game that year but the two titles that followed were shit. Fifa took over with the 2008 version.

It's definitely worth getting back into football games, you can pick up Fifa 09 cheaply now if money is an issue.

Thanks for the info I will grab pes 10 when its available. Money is never an issue for a great game.

[Cian]

Thanks for the info I will grab pes 10 when its available. Money is never an issue for a great game.

Uhhh....ok, my opinion obviously didn't register with you. :p

[REQUIEM]

I appreciate both sides of an opinion but looking at what I just looked at on the net PES 10 looks to be the one. I thank people for their opinon whether I agree or not. Who am I to say that Im right and your wrong. Besides nobody else gave an opinion on it. :)

[Blue]

It was good until it managed to swap places with FIFA, and become the arcadey one.

Don't buy PES10. Buy FIFA 10. It will be the better game, and the best football game of all time. There can be no doubt at all about that. The FIFA series has just become that much more accomplished.

[proofreeder]

REQUIEM,

You can download both on XBox Live Gold as I mentioned originally.

Did you dislike PES6?

I loved PES5, I played that game for about 3 years, but hated PES 6 and PES2008. After playing those two I tracked down an original Xbox copy of PES5 to play on my 360.

However, PES09 was a completely different game, and greatly improved. The physics system was completely revamped allowing sandbox style situations.

Fifa has improved a great deal however, they are right about that (they stole the PES' programmers, dammit!).

As for this year's demos, I've been playing both a great deal and my opinion is undecided at this stage. Fifa seems to have gotten better and PES... well, it's hard to say. I'm used to complete control with PES so I can maintain the ball in tight positions (just like RL!) and sometimes my players delayed when I didn't expect them to, but maybe this will be ironed out in the completed version.

BTW, I've only just recently tried XBox Live Gold with PES, and it's really shit. I've had one good game out of 5, the others players and balls would just disappear and then reappear in completely different positions. It was like I was playing against a team of nightcrawlers. Is there anything I can do about this? Is live always like that? The one game where it worked properly was great! I won 6-0! But I was wondering if this was because the other player suffered similar problems to what I had been experiencing.

BTW again, I had to laugh when Cian recommended Fifa 10 and REQUIEM replied "Okay I will buy PES10". Ha ha ha ha ha.

[ScToTeE]

In my experience, playing Pro Evolution Soccer over Live can be quite harrowing. It can get laggy, depending on where your opponent is located. Even then some Australians produced some horrid matches as well... That's what I've witnessed playing Pro Evolution Soccer 6 in any case. 2008 yielded similar results, but I've played that only once or twice.

[Jickle]

PES4 was probably my favourite soccer game ever. FIFA is a series I can recognize the continued brilliance of without really getting into - I'm not tactical enough for it. For me playing FIFA 09 is sort of like letting a tone deaf guy listen to a really great album - I can recognize the brilliance I'm witnessing, but feel as though it is somehow beyond my grasp.

[ScToTeE]

PES4 was probably my favourite soccer game ever. FIFA is a series I can recognize the continued brilliance of without really getting into - I'm not tactical enough for it. For me playing FIFA 09 is sort of like letting a tone deaf guy listen to a really great album - I can recognize the brilliance I'm witnessing, but feel as though it is somehow beyond my grasp.

That's a great point. I've never been TOO critical of the FIFA franchise, but rather gravitated more towards the simple flowing play of Pro Evo. I'm not into the simulation / overtly tactically-minded sports games. Pro Evo usually got booted up for a quick game or two, as opposed to devoting a lot of time into working out the intricacies of gameplay.

[Blue]

Fair points, but to me, if I'm not going to have a sim, I'm going to have an arcade game. That's why I don't see the point of NFS: Shift or Grid; If it's not going to be Forza, then it should be Midnight Club. Middle-ground doesn't interest me. So in terms of soccer games, if it doesn't have the complete realism of FIFA, then I won't be interested unless it's a great arcade title like Sega Soccer Slam. Semi-realism is a conflicted term.

[Jickle]

Fair points, but to me, if I'm not going to have a sim, I'm going to have an arcade game. That's why I don't see the point of NFS: Shift or Grid; If it's not going to be Forza, then it should be Midnight Club. Middle-ground doesn't interest me. So in terms of soccer games, if it doesn't have the complete realism of FIFA, then I won't be interested unless it's a great arcade title like Sega Soccer Slam. Semi-realism is a conflicted term.

Semi-realism is good for people who have a certain level of knowledge about the activity being performed in the game (soccer or driving in these cases) without necessarily knowing them inside out. For me, I really like soccer as a sport, but can't honestly claim to know much about it, so I find the 'command list' in Fifa intimidating. I see your point though, if I knew the game inside-out FIFA would be a wet dream, but personally I think I'd enjoy a water-down version. Having said that I recognize that it's my own fault more so than the fault of the game (although I think FIFA 09 could have had a better tutorial system), and wouldn't mind spending more time with it to try and pick up on how to get good at it.

[Lazlow]

If it's not going to be Forza

Why have Forza when there are deeper sims on PC? ;)

[Blue]

Why have Forza when there are deeper sims on PC? ;)Because I do not own a PC.

Also, while Forza 3 = FIFA 10, PC racers may as well be soccer management titles. No attention given outside of the core driving model, leaving you with a dull experience. If FIFA 10 is like Forza 3, a realistic representation of the entire sport that is polished in all areas, PC racing sims would be like taking FIFA, removing all but one league, and 80% of the menu options, and using the graphics engine from FIFA 2005. With most of the extraneous gameplay elements, such as extra modes or challenges, removed, you just need to buy a $400 ball peripheral to get the most out of the added gameplay nuances. And a gaming PC.

That's what's so impressive about FIFA games nowadays; they used to be about graphics over gameplay, but the amount of money they can throw at the game has actually been used over the past few years to develop a very deep, well-crafted game that also delivers an impressive looking spectacle. It's happened more than once where an older relative has walked in on a FIFA session, looked at the screen, and asked which match we were watching. That's when I knew that the current generation of consoles are as powerful as gaming consoles really need to be; every graphical advancement from here is just a bonus.

[Lazlow]

Hyperbole and eye candy; a great combo!

Seriously, I was just pointing out there are different levels to how deep an experience can be. There are PC sim racers who would spit on Forza, because of what they feel is an inaccurate representation of driving a car.

I inferred by your previous post that realism was the be all and end all for you when it comes to a simulation. Your arguments against PC sims were fairly exaggerated. For instance Simbin's recent efforts feature several motor racing leagues (WTCC, STCC, FIA GTR, F3000, Formula BMW). I do agree they lack the visual punch that console efforts do, but this is of no consequence to the PC sim racer. They are far from terrible, and you have to remember that racing sims are fallen into a niche market and are therefore being developed by small dedicated teams. Most of their attention will of course be focused on delivering an accurate driving model, otherwise the game is a failure as a simulation.

As for extra modes and challenges... again no consequence. PC sim racers join leagues and get more than enough from online racing. Coupled with extensive modding communities that infinitely extend the life of a game.

And many get just as much enjoyment by using an analog pad as they do a wheel. And lets not forget many XBOX racers use wheels as well, which have proven to improve car control.

But with your additional comments regarding extraneous elements and visual finesse, I can understand why such a choice is made. For those seeking the ultimate experience, those factors aren't of such importance.

[proofreeder]

This is supposed to be a thread about PES! Mods, could you please delete any posts mentioning that "other" football game?

Joking.

Jickle, I understand what you mean, but Fifa ain't really like that lol. Trust me, it isn't over your head. I know people who understand next to nothing about football (or anything really) who love it.

IMO Pro Evo 5 was as simulative as it got. If you can play earlier Pro Evos, Fifa definitely isn't over your head.

EDIT:

The key to football games IMHO is not holding down run the whole time. There is a trade-off between control and acceleration. Only use run when you're clear! First touch on the ball especially, don't press run while you turn unless there's big open areas OR if you're ahead of your man.

Been playing both games more this morning, and I have to admit, I'm really enjoying Fifa. Still undecided at this stage, but I'll probably end up buying both (one later on when it's cheaper), but which one to buy first?

It will be a sad, sad day if Fifa has become better than Pro Evo. On the upside, it would be nice to have decent online play and all those teams. I think I could really get into online play if the gameplay isn't shit. Play football during the day and come home to online videogame football at night, sweet.

And Cian, I forgot about customising the camera in Fifa, thanks. The camera angle with maxed out height and zoomed out is great on my widescreen TV, can see half the pitch.

One thing about these demos, I am itching to get out and play some real football again now (had six months off due to broken leg see avatar pic). Hurry up and heal you stupid bone!

[Blue]

Hyperbole and eye candy; a great combo!

Seriously, I was just pointing out there are different levels to how deep an experience can be. There are PC sim racers who would spit on Forza, because of what they feel is an inaccurate representation of driving a car.

I inferred by your previous post that realism was the be all and end all for you when it comes to a simulation. Your arguments against PC sims were fairly exaggerated. For instance Simbin's recent efforts feature several motor racing leagues (WTCC, STCC, FIA GTR, F3000, Formula BMW). I do agree they lack the visual punch that console efforts do, but this is of no consequence to the PC sim racer. They are far from terrible, and you have to remember that racing sims are fallen into a niche market and are therefore being developed by small dedicated teams. Most of their attention will of course be focused on delivering an accurate driving model, otherwise the game is a failure as a simulation.

As for extra modes and challenges... again no consequence. PC sim racers join leagues and get more than enough from online racing. Coupled with extensive modding communities that infinitely extend the life of a game.

And many get just as much enjoyment by using an analog pad as they do a wheel. And lets not forget many XBOX racers use wheels as well, which have proven to improve car control.

But with your additional comments regarding extraneous elements and visual finesse, I can understand why such a choice is made. For those seeking the ultimate experience, those factors aren't of such importance.The ultimate 'experience' is delivered by Forza, in my eyes. Anything less realistic, and it's pointless, but anything more realistic, and other elements are sacrificed. It's the most realistic racer available that is still able to deliver not just an engine, but a well-balanced, fleshed-out game. That's also what I think FIFA delivers on, and what PES does not.

PC racing sims are like a stripped out Lotus or a Caterham, whereas I like my vehicles with AC, a stereo, and some bloody carpet. :p

[Lazlow]

Everyone has their own criteria for satisfaction; to each their own.

[RunningMild]

I played the demo and was not impressed. It's like a hi-def version of PES 6, nothing more, nothing less. It's still fairly solid, probably one of the best Pro Evo games yet and definitely a return to form after those crappy ones. However, FIFA has shown us that we can have so much more. :p

Seriously, Pro Evo was good for it's time but PES 10 feels too clunkly, primative, and arcadey. FIFA is the beautiful game now. ;)

[Thraxas]

Seriously, Pro Evo was good for it's time but PES 10 feels too clunkly, primative, and arcadey. FIFA is the beautiful game now. ;)

I was always PES>FIFA but this year after playing both demos FIFA shits all over PES and then some. PES is dead to me now :p

[RunningMild]

It will be a sad, sad day if Fifa has become better than Pro Evo.

I used to think that, but by the time the first PES game came out on X360 I was getting pissed off at the franchise's lack of innovation and steadfast refusal to fix it's glaring flaws. In the end, I was actually relieved/happy when I finally found a FIFA game that I liked better than PES. :p

[Lazlow]

Having played the demo I can agree, this series has gone nowhere for a while now. It still feels very much like PES5/6 (whichever was the one I have on PC).

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, familiarity is good, and PES is a quality series. So I guess I should see how it stacks up against Fifa'10. '09 did nothing for me.

Though whoever said PES'10 has only got 8-way movement is quite wrong. Its not full 360 control, but its not restricted to just 8 directions.

[proofreeder]

I'm assuming I'm the person who stated PES has 8 way movement, although I believe I originally said it had initial 8 way movement. This means initially you can move in compass directions and in diagonals.

However, when running you can only turn 22.5 degrees in an attempt to encapsulate the reduced manouvreability momentum has on football players (which works very well IMO). Therefore, on your second touch you can move in directions of sixteenths. Hence the reason I added "initially".

Fifa has incorporated a touted "360 degrees of movement". While I'm not completely sure how this works, I believe it still maintains a 22.5 degree turning ability at high speeds (orignally taken from PES), but your initial movements are not restricted to 8 way directional inputs. Fifa 10 does feel a lot more natural than Fifa 9 in this regard IMO.

[RunningMild]

I'm assuming I'm the person who stated PES has 8 way movement, although I believe I originally said it had initial 8 way movement. This means initially you can move in compass directions and in diagonals.

However, when running you can only turn 22.5 degrees in an attempt to encapsulate the reduced manouvreability momentum has on football players (which works very well IMO). Therefore, on your second touch you can move in directions of sixteenths. Hence the reason I added "initially".

Fair point, and I realised it myself when I played the demo again and sprinted a bit. :p

Also played the FIFA demo again and I'm fairly sure the sprinting movement degrees in that game are way smaller than 22.5. Maybe not full 360 (obviously), but definitely much more precise than what Pro Evo gives.

[proofreeder]

What I mean in Fifa is you can sprint in 360 degrees. However, the most you can alter your direction between first touch and second touch is 22.5 degrees, or 180 degrees.

For example, in PES you could start a diagonal run at 45 degrees. Your second touch could be at either 45 + or - 22.5 degrees = 22.5 degrees or 67.5 degrees.

In Fifa, however, your initial run isn't restricted to 8 way, so you could start your run at, say, 49 degrees. However, I believe the second touch is still at 49 + or - 22.5 degrees = 26.5 degrees or 71.5 degrees.

I could be wrong but I believe this to be the case, they have to restrict manouvreability when running. When I played Fifa 09 again after Fifa 10, it felt a lot more restricted and I really noticed the 8 way run. One negative, however, is it makes running in straight lines (ie parallel to the touchline) more difficult. But it's great to see something they've introduced that isn't ripped from PES! :D

Edit: Sorry, Mr M, you're right. 22.5 is the maximum turn at high speeds, but I believe you can also turn at any increment smaller than this, probably why it feels less restricted.

[RunningMild]

What I mean in Fifa is you can sprint in 360 degrees. However, the most you can alter your direction between first touch and second touch is 22.5 degrees, or 180 degrees.

I know that's what you meant, but I think you might be incorrect. It feels like much less, but I could be wrong.

[proofreeder]

Did you see my edit at the bottom of the last post?

[Azzaman]

hmmm, just played the demo on ps3, the keepers seem a bit useless...

would this have something to do with me having it on default difficulty?

[Lazlow]

Just tried the Fifa 10 demo, I'm converted, goodbye PES.

[Pauly]

Just tried the Fifa 10 demo, I'm converted, goodbye PES.
lock thread :p

[RunningMild]

hmmm, just played the demo on ps3, the keepers seem a bit useless...

would this have something to do with me having it on default difficulty?

Pro Evo keepers have been useless for years. You only just noticed? :p

[Blue]

hmmm, just played the demo on ps3, the keepers seem a bit useless...

would this have something to do with me having it on default difficulty?Options > Game Settings > FIFA 10 Mode > On

Am I trolling? I don't even know, really.

[Azzaman]

Pro Evo keepers have been useless for years. You only just noticed? :p

I haven't played since pes6 ;)

[proofreeder]

Re: deleted post: Yeah, I was just looking for the review, I was wondering if you meant Fifa.

I thought the keepers were fine in PES 09.

[RunningMild]

I haven't played since pes6 ;)

Point still stands. Comparing those keepers to the keepers in new FIFA games is like going from Roy Carroll to Petr Cech. :p

I really didn't think they were that bad until I converted to FIFA.

[RunningMild]

Well, I just played this game and it is garbage. Pure garbage. It's clunky, archaic, and doesn't bear any resemblance to real football. The menus are convoluted, the Master League is worse than before (can't even negotiate with players yourself!), and the player lists are already out of date (which is unforgivable, since it came out after FIFA and that game did have correct rosters as of the end of the trading period!).

They took out heaps of stuff as well, like you can't even set arrows for your formation anymore. You just get cards which are stupid, but it says 'the cards give you limitless options and strategies' or something. Yeah, limitless, except they prevent me from using the same damn strategies I've used in every other Pro Evo game. The off-the-ball AI is now worse than ever, and the game still has all those stupid flaws that haven't been fixed. For example, I was controlling Drenthe, running full speed with a defender on me, running at an angle away from the goals, crossed the ball off-balance and he still landed it on a 5c piece. Also, I had four guys trying to stop Ibrahimovic and he charged through all of them for a goal. Once again, Pro Evo players are unstoppable supermen, not human players.

Also, I jumped straight in on Top Player and the game was still either too easy or completely rigged. AS USUAL.

**** you Pro Evo, you're dead to me.

[RunningMild]

Quick update- I gave it another go and tinkered with the defensive settings, and it turns out you can get them to mark fairly well. However, that doesn't change the fact that the game is still far too easy and arcadey. I beat Barca 3-0 on top player, they never even looked like scoring, and I could tell that this was yet another Pro Evo where you could march through the Master League flogging every team 6-0. Garbage. FIFA provides a genuine challenge and realism, and only an idiot would choose Pro Evo over that game this year.

[Jay]

I am so sad to read this Mr M. I may still pick it up, but with Fifa being so good (despite a recent backlash) this may well just sit on the shelf. :(

[RunningMild]

I am so sad to read this Mr M. I may still pick it up, but with Fifa being so good (despite a recent backlash) this may well just sit on the shelf. :(

Do what I did and buy it from EB. If you hate it, return it, but if you like it, return it and buy it cheaper elsewhere. :p

But please, give it a go before making a commitment. It's not even as good as the last-gen Pro Evos IMO.