Which Smartphone?

[Serenity]

I've been looking at upgrading my phone for some time now. Ultimately, I want to do my basic browsing and emailing on it so I'd only need to use the computer for more complex tasks. Looking at using it at least 3 hours plus a day, so we'd have to factor that into costs. Upfront isn't really a concern.

Necessities: QWERTY keyboard, 3G, email and net support.

Problems: I am in an area which has semi-decent Telstra signal and sometimes Optus signal, depending on your proximity from the centre of said town. I've never used an Optus phone at my house, so I don't know if we have reception. Vodafone? 3? Virgin? Anything else? Fooorget it.

The Frontrunners:
Nokia N97
http://www.cnet.com.au/nokia-n97-339293633.htm
There is a significant problem. It isn't available on either Telstra or Optus yet. I can wait for it to do so or I can just forget about it.

LG Xenon
http://www.cnet.com.au/lg-xenon-339297402.htm
It looks a bit cheap and dodgy and I'm a bit wary of LG phones.

HTC Touch Pro2
http://www.cnet.com.au/htc-touch-pro2-339295020.htm
Probably THE frontrunner but the plan puts me off...
http://mobile-phones.cnet.com.au/MobilePhones/View-Offer?pt=9fd73e82-d2e2-4418-ad4e-b773014fe081&si=255&pi=254&ph=256&su=%2fMobilePhones%2fRefine%3ft%3d9fd73e82-d2e2-4418-ad4e-b773014fe081%26s%3dCurrentRanking%26sd%3dAscending %26p%3d0
So yeah, I don't know how far $60 value stretches, then I'd have to get a browsing pack too...Maybe a 1gig one...

Blackberry Bold 9000
http://www.cnet.com.au/blackberry-bold-9000-339288857.htm
Still looking into it more. It's NextG but I don't know what the signal will be like.
http://mobile-phones.cnet.com.au/MobilePhones/View-Offer?pt=50f9f4b9-4fea-4eee-b96a-4353857bbf7f&si=255&pi=235&ph=178&su=%2fMobilePhones%2fRefine%3ft%3d50f9f4b9-4fea-4eee-b96a-4353857bbf7f%26s%3dCurrentRanking%26sd%3dAscending %26p%3d1
For the plan. I'd have to get a browsing pack.

Any help is much appreciated.

[Blue]

If you don't want an iPhone for some reason, definitely get the N97. I used one the other day, and outside of the iPhone it is the best smartphone I've used. For somebody like yourself who will appreciate them, the camera functions are impressive. Flick down the lens cover (which features a built-in felt cleaning buffer), and the phone switches instantly to camera mode. The phone feels like a camera in hand, features a flash, and also has a CZ lens and of course the now-standard 5MP. It's the first phone camera that can replace a point-and-shoot for happy snaps, in my opinion.

The rest of the phone is fine, too. Especially compared to the majority of recent Nokias, which have all been girly crap.

[Serenity]

Thanks, the thing is I don't know if I should wait or get something else. It was the initial frontrunner, then the HTC was recommended to me, then THAT was the frontrunner, then I looked at the plan...So at the moment the Blackberry's kind of what I'm looking at.

I don't want to get an iPhone specifically because it just doesn't grab me, plus everyone else has one.

[TrinityJayOne]

You wouldn't want Vodafone for a smartphone. I will gladly recommend them to anyone for every facet of their service, except internet. Their rates are horribly overpriced in comparison, which isn't good when everyone else already charges an arm & a leg.

[Blue]

Thanks, the thing is I don't know if I should wait or get something else. It was the initial frontrunner, then the HTC was recommended to me, then THAT was the frontrunner, then I looked at the plan...So at the moment the Blackberry's kind of what I'm looking at.

I don't want to get an iPhone specifically because it just doesn't grab me, plus everyone else has one.My mate just got an HTC, and I cal definitely try to dissuade you from buying one. The touchscreen is often unresponsive, the screen is small, and overall, it's just not a very enjoyable phone to use.

I haven't used a Blackberry, but the layout just doesn't appeal to me in comparison with the Nokia or the iPhone.

[JubeiSaotome]

iPhone for sure.

[texta]

iPhone is clearly the best, but if being different is more important than quality then of the ones you've picked I'd probably go for the Blackberry.

[Serenity]

No, no, you misinterpreted. Don't make me out to be materialistic, please, it's not like that. It's obviously geared for music use predominantly and that facet of it does not interest me. It doesn't grab me because it's not geared to be a hardcore communication machine in terms of emails and instant messaging. I want something to REPLACE the computer in terms of those activities. That's why the qwerty keyboard is essential, I've used an iPhone touchscreen and I can't work it very well.

[Blue]

Really, the plans you can get with the iPhone will be the best. My Optus plan is great. I can't even envisage the next time that I'll buy a new phone and it won't be an iPhone. Probably when iBrain arrives.

EDIT: Obviously geared for music use? Well, I never use that aspect of the device. It is in no way the centrepiece of the iPhone, simply a very accomplished portion of it.

The full QWERTY keyboard and peerless predictive text, plus the internet and app interfaces, combine to make it such an enjoyable device to use for web-based content and email. Older, keyboard-based devices seem archaic in comparison.

[Kotche]

The track ball on the Bold 9000 works really well but ****s up relly easy.

The new Blackberry has moved away from it for that reason.

Avoid the Bold 9000.

[Serenity]

Well tell me Blue, is it very friendly towards frequent emailing and IM use?

[Silverwolf]

Well tell me Blue, is it very friendly towards frequent emailing and IM use?

Yes, theres loads of MSN apps to choose from and it comes with some email service thing for easy emailing.

[Blue]

Well tell me Blue, is it very friendly towards frequent emailing and IM use?Well, not being a female, I can't say that I use Instant Messaging at all. The Twitter apps are well-implemented, it has a push email service like any smartphone. Outside of that, I'm not the one to ask.

Texting, however, is something I can comment on. No other phone's text messaging interface is anywhere near as good as the iPhone's.

[Serenity]

Okay, it's on my maybe list. Anyone got any other ideas?

[Silverwolf]

Two words.

Samsung Omnia

[Kotche]

lol awesome avatar btw

[StorminNorman]

I don't want to get an iPhone specifically because it just doesn't grab me, plus everyone else has one.

If you've ever used a smartphone that isn't an iPhone, then you'll understand why everyone has one. Because it really is the best smartphone out there*.

Its SMS app is pretty nifty once you get used to it. It actually displays SMS messages as IM-style conversations, so if you have long SMS conversations with people, then this will really work well for you. It's a far better approach than the stupid "mailbox" metaphor most dumbphones use.

The dialer app does what it's supposed to do without fuss. You'll likely hardly use it if you learn to search for everything via Spotlight.

If there's something you want to do on the iPhone, then, well, "there's an app for that".

You can even do stuff like be on MSN from your iPhone with an app like Beejive. It's pretty brilliant.

I don't get why people faff about with all this "oh, I don't want an iPhone because everyone else has one/I think Apple are evil even though I use Windows/etc" whinging. Maybe, just maybe, it's popular because it's a half-decent product that's fairly affordable (in Australia, anyway) and does a lot of neat stuff.

It can most definitely function as a mobile computing device, if that's what you're after. Don't sweat the lack of a physical keyboard. The iPhone's touch keyboard is really, really good.

Also, the N97 is not a smartphone, it's a dumbphone with delusions of grandeur. Series 60 needs to die.

*: There's some strong arguments in favour of Blackberry if you're working in a corporate/MS Exchange environment, though.

[Fenrir]

HTC Touch Pro2
http://www.cnet.com.au/htc-touch-pro2-339295020.htm
Probably THE frontrunner but the plan puts me off...
http://mobile-phones.cnet.com.au/MobilePhones/View-Offer?pt=9fd73e82-d2e2-4418-ad4e-b773014fe081&si=255&pi=254&ph=256&su=%2fMobilePhones%2fRefine%3ft%3d9fd73e82-d2e2-4418-ad4e-b773014fe081%26s%3dCurrentRanking%26sd%3dAscending %26p%3d0
So yeah, I don't know how far $60 value stretches, then I'd have to get a browsing pack too...Maybe a 1gig one...
Indeed, TP2 pricing is arserape at the moment.

Or rather, for NextG compatibility it is; on the other hand, the more generic T7373 model is available unlocked for ~$800 (http://www.smoothmobiles.com.au/HTC-Touch-Pro2-p/htc-t7373-blk.htm). The key difference is the UMTS frequency support - Telstra seem to be the only service provider reselling a TP2 model capable of operating on its UMTS 850-based NextG network (ie the T7381 model), and they're charging an extra ~$500 for the privilege. Sol Trujillo should be shot on sight for this terrible legacy.

Also, the Telstra TP2's come loaded with bloatware, and I don't think they're offering clean firmware ROMs yet. Some people seem to believe that when Windows Mobile 6.5 lands, they'll be able to install it without the bloat.

My mate just got an HTC, and I cal definitely try to dissuade you from buying one. The touchscreen is often unresponsive, the screen is small, and overall, it's just not a very enjoyable phone to use.
You'll have to be clearer - what breed of HTC was it?

[Blue]

Touch Diamond.

Plus, the thing just looks a touch effeminate for my liking, but that's not an issue for Serenity, obviously.

[Lazlow]

Well, not being a female, I can't say that I use Instant Messaging at all.

Oh my!

The only reason I wouldn't recommend an iPhone is if touch screens shit you. Some days the iPhone can be a bitch to type on. As for service go with Telstra; with your location its really your only option that wont have you tearing your hair out.

[drzaius]

i've found the iphone to be a very intuitive communication device.
not having a keyboard, and having everything controlled by touch (and multi touch) on a nice big screen actually adds to its usefulness and use-ability.
as has been mentioned - a keyboard would feel like a step backwards.

And i was initially very skeptical so yeah. won over.

[Shorty]

Oh my!

The only reason I wouldn't recommend an iPhone is if touch screens shit you. Some days the iPhone can be a bitch to type on. As for service go with Telstra; with your location its really your only option that wont have you tearing your hair out.

The problem is that Telstra charges like a wounded bull for data rates, which means that you'll be restricted from making good use of the data capabilities that make the iPhone so appealing in the first place. Telstra may be numero uno for coverage, but goddamn if they don't make you pay for it.

As for the iPhone typing, the software does a pretty good job of "learning" what it was that you "meant" to type and offering that up when you punch in a couple of wrong letters.

[Lazlow]

The flip side being that Optus is cheaper, but has a slower network speed and worse coverage.

[Shorty]

True, but there's also not much point in a faster data network if you can hardly use it.

[Lazlow]

So in conclusion, regional Australia shouldn't bother with a smart phone unless you're willing to pay the premium for a decent service.

[Ali G]

Have you had a look at the Nokia E71? It's a very good phone, apart from the fact that it runs on S60.

[Shorty]

So in conclusion, regional Australia shouldn't bother with a smart phone unless you're willing to pay the premium for a decent service.

Or at least make sure you're only using them on your local or free Wi-Fi. Otherwise, what else can you do?

[nintendo]

I wouldnt buy a Nokia at all nowadays. Their quality has really gone down hill and the N97 has done nothing to change that. Also with the arrival of the N97 Mini, which by most accounts is the better device, the N97 is really dead in the water.

Id suggest you look at some reviews for these phones because if you do then youll see what a bad choice the Nokia is.

Nowadays if your after a smartphone then there really is only the iPhone and the Blackberrys that are worth any mention. They are the only ones that can 'replace' a computer in your pocket. And with how tight the market is at the moment you cant really go wrong in choosing either one, but the iPhone does tend to get most peoples votes because it is such a brilliant little device.

I used to be someone who carried a PDA as well as a phone around, but since Ive got the iPhone it really does everything I need. Its got a nice email client with its built in Mail application, with the support now offered from QuickOffice it even has a nice MS Office editing bit of software aswell.

[Lazlow]

Or at least make sure you're only using them on your local or free Wi-Fi. Otherwise, what else can you do?

Pretty certain for Serenity, WiFi ain't an option >_>

[Mark]

IMO - if you're using it predominantly for business/email - you really should be getting a Blackberry..

mind you i've never used one on a plan (i've always had it on a BES server at the office, so all emails/web browsing is instant and free).

i use my Blackberry Bold for everything. handy for IM.. i also run Viigo for RSS feeds which is handy for the waiting rooms etc.

I can see why the iPhone is so popular, and it's a fantastic device - i just don't like touch screen tech much.. i need a proper keypad.

[Lazlow]

A while back I was considering switching from Optus to Telstra, so I just had a look at their pricing structure.... am I correct in saying you have to add a Browsing pack on top of a Cap Plan? (otherwise you end up paying $2/MB).

So basically a $49 cap + 300mb data ($29) = $78

[nintendo]

Its something like that yeah. Ridiculous.

See I couldnt go back to using a keypad. The iPhone does such a fantastic job, and it then also allows you so much more screen space that keypads just seems out dated to me now.

[texta]

I get 400mb with my vodaphone plan and I'm lucky to use half of that.

Unless you're planning on actually downloading songs or shows through your phone then you probably don't need a massive amount.

[Serenity]

So far, it's looking like it will be the iPhone. As I said before, I have used one briefly before just to get a feel for it and the touchpad did nothing for me. That's why I'm leaning towards QWERTY. I suppose one may get used to it though.

[Lazlow]

If you can get a better deal with a Blackberry, go one of them. Can't see Telstra's pricing structure for them on their website though. I'd suggest a Hiptop but apparently they aren't on the NextG network O_o

[Serenity]

Ewww, not a hiptop...

[Lazlow]

Well it was made to satisfy every requirement you've listed, so what if it's a tween icon :p

but no nextg is a system killer.

[Serenity]

Okay, so let's say I do get an iPhone, what sort of a cap would I need? I'd be on this thing maybe 4 to 5 hours plus a day. I've never been on a plan before either.

[Lazlow]

Its hard to gauge, if you're predominantly using it for web/IM/email then the data usage limit would be of most importance.

I'm on a $49 Optus cap (http://personal.optus.com.au/web/ocaportal.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=Template_woRHS&FP=/personal/mobile/iphone3G/plancomparison&site=personal)which gives me 250MB of data, and I've barely got close to using it all. That said I browse via WiFi a bit. A $59 cap gives you 700mb which would seem reasonable. Of course, you're using Optus' 3G network, which is slower and most likely patchier in your area.


Telstra on the other hand separates data from the plans (bar the Ultimate plans). So you essentially pick a plan and then add a browsing pack for the applicable data you require. So as I mentioned before the lowest cap plan is $49, an then add an additional $29 for 300mb of data. $59 for a 1GB. NextG offers better network speed and coverage, but you're certainly paying for that privilege.

[Serenity]

So maybe around 300mb is a good amount?

[Ali G]

I wouldnt buy a Nokia at all nowadays. Their quality has really gone down hill and the N97 has done nothing to change that. Also with the arrival of the N97 Mini, which by most accounts is the better device, the N97 is really dead in the water.
On that topic though, what the hell was Nokia thinking in calling it 'mini'? It's almost the same size!

[Lazlow]

So maybe around 300mb is a good amount?

According to Optus' website, you've got complete Yes G dual band coverage. But as far as I know, the iPhone doesn't support 900mhz, which is most likely the frequency of the coverage you'll get. So it'll revert to the old GSM network (this is what it does when I'm at home, as 3G coverage dips out outside of the Cairns CBD).

So it looks like Telstra might be your only option, unless you live in Yes G 2100mhz hotspot.

[StorminNorman]

As for the iPhone typing, the software does a pretty good job of "learning" what it was that you "meant" to type and offering that up when you punch in a couple of wrong letters.

By "good job" you mean "is damn near psychic".

I swear I have entered entirely random strings of characters into my iPhone and it has *still* autocorrected them into the exact message I wanted to type.

Once you get the hang of the way it works, you almost never backspace.

Have you had a look at the Nokia E71? It's a very good phone, apart from the fact that it runs on S60.

That's kind of like saying Kate Moss is a very good root, apart from the fact she has AIDS.

(She doesn't, btw, but you get my point).

So maybe around 300mb is a good amount?

I have 250MB/month on my Optus iPhone $49 cap, and that's more than enough for the relatively heavy mobile internet usage I do (web browsing, facebooking, MSN).

[Xanafalgue]

Blackberry Bold 9000
http://www.cnet.com.au/blackberry-bold-9000-339288857.htm
Still looking into it more. It's NextG but I don't know what the signal will be like.

The QWERTY is awesome and feels really good to use. The signal used to drop quite often for me but isn't such a problem these days.

[Ali G]

That's kind of like saying Kate Moss is a very good root, apart from the fact she has AIDS.

(She doesn't, btw, but you get my point).
That's perhaps a bit extreme. S60 isn't as good as an iPhone, but it's not horrible either. Unless you're an app whore.

And I'd also argue that the keypad on the E71 is better than what you get with the iPhone.

[Serenity]

I've read about the E71, it looks okay but nothing really grabbing me.

[nintendo]

@ Ali G - I know. It still pisses me of that a company can do what Nokia is doing with the N97. Release the 'final' product and then a couple of months later release the 'mini' which is by far the superior product. I guess its just because the general public doesnt read reviews and previews like we do, and know nothing when it comes to the shit they get.

I personally wouldnt touch a Nokia now days. The amount of problems in not only the software but the actual build quality of the phones is astounding.

There really is only the 2 options when your considering a smart phone. Blackberry or iPhone. Its simple really.

EDIT:

Im on the $79 Optus cap. I get like 1.5gb of data and like $600 of calls. Its insane.

The only reason I would say go Vodafone over Optus is that Vodafone doesnt charge for tethering. Otherwise I dont really make much of a difference between Vodafone and Optus network wise. Sure Vodafone might be a bit quicker in upgrading their network but as it is its much of a muchness really. Unless your going with Telstra. In which case youd have to be so unbelievably rich that you could probably afford to buy 2 of any phone you want.

[Italian Stallion]

Two words.

Samsung Omnia
No competition, Omnia HD wins. Don't even think about it. Just get this if you're after a non-keyboard touch phone.

Disregard the LG - they're very on/off with their phones. When they get it right, it's right.. but when it's wrong, it's horribly wrong. My personal experience has only ever been negative with them, and I haven't read anything particularly good about it. It looks cheap & tacky too.

The N97 is really, really good. You've obviously read the reviews on it so you already know how good it is. The only drawback is that, given that it uses Symbian OS, a lesser used OS, there's fewer apps and little room for expandability compared to others. The Omnia HD does use this same OS though. And I have no issues recommending either phone.

The HTC Touch Pro 2 is great. Big difference here is it runs Windows Mobile. In it's current state, that's a plus and a negative. WinMo is a very common OS on lots of different phones, so it has quite a big support base. There's a limitless amount of programs made for it, and can it can be customised in most aspects - different home screens, themes, icon packs, menu layouts, phone dialers & phone books, web browsers, media players, GPS software & even text entry programs (to find one to perfectly suit your taste, if you go non-keyboard). You name it, it's got it. The only issue is, right now, the current version packaged with phone is WinMo is 6.1, which isn't quite as touch-friendly or attractive as the upcoming (coming out in October) WinMo 6.5 is. Most manufacturers use their own proprietry homescreen to overcome this issue though, and you're able to access most features & settings through it. HTC has 'Manila' (the tap and drag screen you'll see in screenshots with the Touch Pro), and Sony has one too.

Speaking of Sony, I'd like to whole-heartedly recommend the Sony Ericsson XPERIA X1. Probably the best phone with a keyboard & touchscreen out right now, that is currently available in Australia. Would be my pick if I wanted a new phone with a keyboard.

I'm pretty sure both the Sony Ericsson & HTC will have a free upgrade to 6.5 when it's released as well, which makes the issue I mentioned mostly pointless.

I've not used a Blackberry, so I can't really comment on it other than what I've heard - all round, good phones, but not fantastic.

Conclusion: Omnia or XPERIA. :D

[Silverwolf]

No competition, Omnia HD wins. Don't even think about it. Just get this if you're after a non-keyboard touch phone.

Omnia has a onscreen keyboard like the iphone, right?

[Fenrir]

Hmm, if you're not looking for a keyboard, you should consider the HTC Touch HD.

http://www.lexvon.com/catalog/images/HTC_TouchHD.jpg

From what I've heard, the on-screen keyboard is spectacular, 800x480 pixel display, 5mp camera, runs Windows Mobile so supports a ****load of apps, performs extremely well, etc. Probably the sexiest phone available, too.

Like all recent smartphones, though, the NextG-compatible version is (if I recall correctly) a fair bit more expensive.

I don't get why people faff about with all this "oh, I don't want an iPhone because everyone else has one/I think Apple are evil even though I use Windows/etc" whinging. Maybe, just maybe, it's popular because it's a half-decent product that's fairly affordable (in Australia, anyway) and does a lot of neat stuff.
Huh? I'm not familiar with the everyone's-got-one line, I just hate Apple.

Well, not just hate - have a seething, cringing despise of the company, its hyper-proprietary business strategies; the cumbersome Mac convention of splicing app menubars into the operating system's menubar; the smug clouds emanating from appealing to the artsies with CMYK and print-accurate (at the sacrifice of screen clarity) font rendering; the fugly aesthetics of every Mac since those beige the-screen-is-the-computer things from back in high school to the more recent white glossy overly-curved things; and that damned incessant fanbase who've insisted that this pointless and ugly company have some sort of redeeming value, even before arguably redeeming mass-selling products like the iPod/Phone/whatever were ever devised.

But psychologically, I don't get it.
Sure, the things above definitely grate with me (especially any appeal to artfags), but my despise of Apple seems to transcend that. I'm not even a Microsoft fanboy - I favour Java over .NET, open-source over proprietary, I hate software patents, I've went on plenty of anti-MS spiels without wavering in my despise of Apple, etc.

The problem appears to just be that Apple is such an easy brand to hate. I don't necessarily hate the people behind Apple - I don't really mind Steve Jobs, et al. I don't seem to be the only one with this hate for Apple, in fact it may be one of the big reasons why they can't secure more than ~5% of the desktop market.
It doesn't make sense to keep going with a brand that a majority of people are psychologically opposed to - maybe Apple should rebrand completely? Get an awesome name, adopt matte black, add edges and dare I say, corners to their products, etc. >_>

Oh, and er, sorry about that spiel. Had to get it off my chest someday.


As far as criticism of the iPhone goes, I've heard that only recently did Apple allow a background process app to be released for it, among other comments of restrictive (though polished) APIs; and there are definitely more capable, comparable phones on the market (like the Touch HD above). I don't follow the iPhone, though, so meh.

Touch Diamond.

Plus, the thing just looks a touch effeminate for my liking, but that's not an issue for Serenity, obviously.
You're coming from an iPod perspective, and calling out the Touch Diamond for being effeminate? Dear god.

Also, you're talking about a generation-old phone with a screen half the size of the Touch Pro2 Serenity picked out.

Speaking of Sony, I'd like to whole-heartedly recommend the Sony Ericsson XPERIA X1. Probably the best phone with a keyboard & touchscreen out right now, that is currently available in Australia. Would be my pick if I wanted a new phone with a keyboard.
That's interesting - I'm going to have to see if I can find one in-store.

[JubeiSaotome]

What I don't get is why people get the types of touch screen smartphone that try to mirror the iPhone's functionality when they'd be better off getting an iPhone.

See; LG S Class phones.

[Serenity]

Okay, this is all really confusing! Just when I was pretty much sold on the iPhone, a challenger appears. Checking Omnia plans now, however its lowish rating on CNET is slightly offputting.

For those trying to sell me into Optus/Vodafone/any other carrier, I HAVE to get a Telstra. It's the only carrier with decent service out here.

EDIT: Omnia is OUT. It isn't Telstra. Xperia is out too, it has to be 3G and it ain't.

[Italian Stallion]

Okay, this is all really confusing! Just when I was pretty much sold on the iPhone, a challenger appears. Checking Omnia plans now, however its lowish rating on CNET is slightly offputting.

For those trying to sell me into Optus/Vodafone/any other carrier, I HAVE to get a Telstra. It's the only carrier with decent service out here.

EDIT: Omnia is OUT. It isn't Telstra. Xperia is out too, it has to be 3G and it ain't.
The Australian Xperia is/was a Telstra exclusive phone, and it runs NextG/3G. NextG is the more important one if you live in a more rural area, and it clearly shows compatibility with that network on their site.

[Serenity]

Meh, just goes to show I should read more than just the CNET "Check available plans". Is there a huge performance difference between 3G and NextG?

By all means though, it really just does not grab me. There's nothing about it that makes it scream out "I'm better than the average! Pick me!"

[Lazlow]

Telstra NextG runs at 850mhz
Optus 'yes' G runs at 900mhz/2100mhz. Essentially regional/metro.

However the iPhone only works on 850/1900/2100mhz. So it won't pick up the 900mhz signal in your area. Hence 'yes' G being a dead end for you.

NextG also has a faster network speed, afaik currently a theoretical 21mbps being pushed to 46 later this year.

Optus is about 3-7mbps.

[nintendo]

Hmm, if you're not looking for a keyboard, you should consider the HTC Touch HD.

http://www.lexvon.com/catalog/images/HTC_TouchHD.jpg

From what I've heard, the on-screen keyboard is spectacular, 800x480 pixel display, 5mp camera, runs Windows Mobile so supports a ****load of apps, performs extremely well, etc. Probably the sexiest phone available, too.

Like all recent smartphones, though, the NextG-compatible version is (if I recall correctly) a fair bit more expensive.


Huh? I'm not familiar with the everyone's-got-one line, I just hate Apple.

Well, not just hate - have a seething, cringing despise of the company, its hyper-proprietary business strategies; the cumbersome Mac convention of splicing app menubars into the operating system's menubar; the smug clouds emanating from appealing to the artsies with CMYK and print-accurate (at the sacrifice of screen clarity) font rendering; the fugly aesthetics of every Mac since those beige the-screen-is-the-computer things from back in high school to the more recent white glossy overly-curved things; and that damned incessant fanbase who've insisted that this pointless and ugly company have some sort of redeeming value, even before arguably redeeming mass-selling products like the iPod/Phone/whatever were ever devised.

But psychologically, I don't get it.
Sure, the things above definitely grate with me (especially any appeal to artfags), but my despise of Apple seems to transcend that. I'm not even a Microsoft fanboy - I favour Java over .NET, open-source over proprietary, I hate software patents, I've went on plenty of anti-MS spiels without wavering in my despise of Apple, etc.

The problem appears to just be that Apple is such an easy brand to hate. I don't necessarily hate the people behind Apple - I don't really mind Steve Jobs, et al. I don't seem to be the only one with this hate for Apple, in fact it may be one of the big reasons why they can't secure more than ~5% of the desktop market.
It doesn't make sense to keep going with a brand that a majority of people are psychologically opposed to - maybe Apple should rebrand completely? Get an awesome name, adopt matte black, add edges and dare I say, corners to their products, etc. >_>

Oh, and er, sorry about that spiel. Had to get it off my chest someday.


As far as criticism of the iPhone goes, I've heard that only recently did Apple allow a background process app to be released for it, among other comments of restrictive (though polished) APIs; and there are definitely more capable, comparable phones on the market (like the Touch HD above). I don't follow the iPhone, though, so meh.


You're coming from an iPod perspective, and calling out the Touch Diamond for being effeminate? Dear god.

Also, you're talking about a generation-old phone with a screen half the size of the Touch Pro2 Serenity picked out.


That's interesting - I'm going to have to see if I can find one in-store.

Id have to say that MS would be an even easier company to hate than Apple though.

Although the only thing I cant concede is your view of the design aesthetics of the Macs themselves. I find them absolutely beautiful. Are you saying that the old CRT ones, the colour ones, look better than the beautiful 24inch iMacs of today? Or that the old MacBooks look better than the new MBPs with the unibody construction?

Also Apples always said that they dont want to have background running apps because it would use up battery power even faster than it does already (which would have to be my main complaint about the phone). Id also much rather have plenty of polished APIs than a mess of others. The device really is a beauty to use.

Aaaaaaaand Im fairly sure the XRERIA X2 has just been released as well, maybe not in Aus yet, but I dont think itd be that far away.

EDIT:
@ Laz, also remember that the iPhone only has 7.2 capability in the 3GS so you cant really be taking advantage of that whole 21. AFAIK there isnt much in Australia phonewise that has anything higher?

[Lazlow]

@ Laz, also remember that the iPhone only has 7.2 capability in the 3GS so you cant really be taking advantage of that whole 21. AFAIK there isnt much in Australia phonewise that has anything higher?


Snap, forgot about that

[nintendo]

Yeah it is a bit misleading on Telstras part though. They advertise this fancy 21mbps service, yet most things cant even use half of it.

I would like to know though, if anyone does, whether or not there are any phones that can use up to 21? Because Im not even sure most 3G dongles can. Maybe some of Telstras new ones, but I seriously dont know.

[Fenrir]

EDIT: Telstra are using NextG for home deals, too - they may be capable of it.

-snip-
No need to bloat the page by quoting my entire post - clip it down to the points that matter.

Id have to say that MS would be an even easier company to hate than Apple though.
The thing is, it's easy to stay rational and level-headed whilst picking apart Microsoft's unscrupulous business dealings. They don't really set off any smug alerts - aside from the businesswank that permeates a lot of their products/services, there isn't really much about Microsoft that makes me want to puke bile.

Although the only thing I cant concede is your view of the design aesthetics of the Macs themselves. I find them absolutely beautiful. Are you saying that the old CRT ones, the colour ones, look better than the beautiful 24inch iMacs of today? Or that the old MacBooks look better than the new MBPs with the unibody construction?
Oh no, you've misinterpreted me - of course the new Macs are an improvement. But I found the old Macs appalling in comparison to the old PCs, and find the new Macs appalling in comparison to the new PCs. The whole aesthetic just makes me cringe.

Also Apples always said that they dont want to have background running apps because it would use up battery power even faster than it does already (which would have to be my main complaint about the phone).
Aren't they designed to be a media player/phone convergence gadget (among other things)? Surely most background processes would demand a mere pittance of system resources in comparison to decoding and playing audio tracks for hours on end? And even if they have a point, where do they find the nerve to make that decision for their customers?

Id also much rather have plenty of polished APIs than a mess of others.
Well sure, it's very important to have well-designed APIs which lend themselves to effective software development, and developers would be taking up pitchforks if there were ongoing unresolved bugs; but you seem to've missed my point.
Restrictive as in, for example, development of background processes being restricted, among other things. Unless you're a developer yourself, the only stake you have in these concerns is that there won't be an app for certain things, or some apps may require a counter-intuitive involvement of the user to perform certain tasks.

[Blue]

Sorry Fenrir, but you're a ****-up.

Harbouring such hatred for a brand is … Insane. And the criticisms you've leveled at Apple's aesthetics prove that, without a doubt, you have no taste whatsoever. The iPod is a perfect example of elegant design.

I'm amazed that computers and various other electronic devices can spark just as much fanboy ranting as a video game console or a band. But then again, I forget that I'm dealing with a bunch of ****ing nerds.

I'm glad you really enjoy your iRiver or whatever, but that doesn't change the fact that everybody else ignored it because the iPod was simply better.

[faceless]

pretty typical kneejerk reaction from an apple user right there.

[Serenity]

Maybe I should consider the Xperia 2...That thing looks beastly.
http://www.sonyericsson.com/cws/corporate/press/pressreleases/pressreleasedetails/xperiax2pressreleasefinal-20090902

Having said that, I'm going away mid-October to Brisbane, that would ideally be the best time to look at all the phone shops. We don't even have a Telstra shop here...

[Shorty]

pretty typical kneejerk reaction from an apple user right there.

I sense the beginning of a "Apple hate" tangent, here.

[Vicious]

The iPod is a perfect example of elegant design.

If by elegant you mean "cheap" then sure is!

I forget that I'm dealing with a bunch of ****ing nerds.

You do realize you're posting on a gaming forum, right? Pot meet kettle, kettle meet pot.

I'm glad you really enjoy your iRiver or whatever, but that doesn't change the fact that everybody else ignored it because the iPod was simply better.

By your logic Hanna Montana and the Jonas brothers are damn near the pinnacle of music euphoria. Hell, if that's the case then McDonald's should be a five star restaurant!

Sales != better.


As for ipod and iphone . . . I need tactile interface which neither has for me. I can't get the scroll wheel to scroll half the time on an ipod, and typing on an iphone every time I've done it has been an absolute exercise in frustration.

Maybe if you have girly thumbs they'll work for you.



As for Fenrir's rant though, I agree it has very poor reasoning. Unfortunately for you yours is no better. Your rebuttal consistently turns into a plug for Apple devices. What was that statement about fanboys you made again? :rolleyes:


As for me, I've had no problems with my HTC. I highly recommend them if you're looking for ones with a kickout QWERTY keyboard.

[Shorty]

As for me, I've had no problems with my HTC. I highly recommend them if you're looking for ones with a kickout QWERTY keyboard.

I can understand the argument for a slideout keyboard but my experience with the iPhone typing system has been mostly positive so far. The software's pretty intelligent in picking up mistyped words and I can type messages reasonably well one-handed if not at 60wpm.

[faceless]

I don't care about branding, I own an iPhone but that's because when I got it over 6 months ago, the deal virgin mobile was throwing around was not only the best iphone plan but the best mobile plan period. Even with the 3GS out, it still is incredible value for money.

As a developer, I will attest that Fenrir's reasons for disliking the out-of-the-box iPhone/iTouch are valid (at least my understanding of his reasons from his last post). There are alot of very good reasons that the jailbreaking community is huge.

But to say that the iPod is better simply because it's more popular is, as i said, typical kneejerk reaction from an apple user. The iPod was more popular, no doubt. Apple did something with marketing that had been touched on before but never fully abused - advertising their goods as culturally relevant. It was practically a status symbol. But it had (and still has) problems up the arse. My iRiver lasted me 3 years and I only replaced it because I'm a dropkick and I accidentally ran over it.

Then again, maybe it wasn't a typical apple-fan kneejerk reaction at all. Maybe it was just a typical Blue kneejerk reaction where he can't possibly accept that someone has an opinion different to his own.

[Vicious]

I can understand the argument for a slideout keyboard but my experience with the iPhone typing system has been mostly positive so far. The software's pretty intelligent in picking up mistyped words and I can type messages reasonably well one-handed if not at 60wpm.

I just confuse the **** out of it. I imagine if I tried typing on it long enough I'd let the magic smoke out of it. I even have a complete Apple fanboy in my class that practically cries because he has trouble with touchpads too and desperately can't get the iphone to work how we wants. He can however get the scroll wheel to work on his ipod . . . something that my thumb apparently wasn't meant for.

[Fenrir]

I sense the beginning of a "Apple hate" tangent, here.
I didn't really intend a fanboy war, hell I spent most of my "rant" reflecting on my rant. From that reflection, I was hoping for a more reasoned discussion about the Apple brand and why people hate it so much, or something.

I'm struggling to see more than reactionism in Blue's reply, though. Being diametric to a brand can apparently only happen out of fanboyism to some other brand - well, I did like my H340, but iriver have gone downhill into pointless fashion-trinket territory since then.

If by elegant you mean "cheap" then sure is!
I don't think "cheap" is it. I mean, some of the makes might be - but it's something else about that damned aesthetic.

As for Fenrir's rant though, I agree it has very poor reasoning.
Bleh, give credit where it's due - Apple are more proprietary than MS, there is a lot of smug flying around the fanbase, and the footnotes about the iPhone were reasonable. Further, I did point out that these things don't justify irrational despise the likes that I feel towards Apple - and that's what I wanted to discuss, really.

As for me, I've had no problems with my HTC. I highly recommend them if you're looking for ones with a kickout QWERTY keyboard.
Which are you using, again?

[Shorty]

I didn't really intend a fanboy war, hell I spent most of my "rant" reflecting on my rant. From that reflection, I was hoping for a more reasoned discussion about the Apple brand and why people hate it so much, or something.

I'm struggling to see more than reactionism in Blue's reply, though. Being diametric to a brand can apparently only happen out of fanboyism to some other brand - well, I did like my H340, but iriver have gone downhill into pointless fashion-trinket territory since then.

That's an interesting idea, but this thread probably isn't the place for it. Better that everyone refocus on the original topic, which is choosing a smartphone.

[Serenity]

That's an interesting idea, but this thread probably isn't the place for it. Better that everyone refocus on the original topic, which is choosing a smartphone.

Thank you. Thank you very much.

[StorminNorman]

I can't get the scroll wheel to scroll half the time on an ipod, and typing on an iphone every time I've done it has been an absolute exercise in frustration.

You're doing it wrong.

Serenity: The best way to decide is to go to a phone shop and ask them if you can have a look at working models of the phones you're considering. Have a good play and make sure to check out all the features you'd use. Even a few minutes with each phone will be better than reading reviews online.

Personally, I think you'll be best off with the iPhone, because it will do everything you ask of it with minimal fuss. That's been my experience with the iPhone, at any rate.

[Zan]

How bout the fact that the iPod doesn't have an on/off switch or battery removal? If the software freezes then you're stuck waiting for it's charge to die off... like mine did before my fourteen hour flight. This is just one of many problems I had with it. It's a ****ing one/off switch, every other goddamn device has one.

I have plenty of reasons to hate iPod based on experience alone, but reading fenrir's post, I feel like I have a kindred spirit. It's just the overall smugness of the brand that gets me. Didn't you just want to slap that 'I'm a mac' guy?

Anyway, after all that I still decided on getting an iphone, because as has been stated before... killer apps. If you get one, jail break it to rid yourself of that itunes nonsense and go nuts. It was impossible for me to find one though, on the budget carriers so I got a nokia e63 instead... different market though.

Blue: Whoah... settle down there fella, we can't all be as trendy and social as you.

[Fenrir]

That's an interesting idea, but this thread probably isn't the place for it. Better that everyone refocus on the original topic, which is choosing a smartphone.
True, I'm not sure where I got the idea that this would be in any way a brief tangent.

Doesn't really help that your options with Telstra are direly limited - UMTS 850 support costs more for practically anything that isn't an iPhone, if I recall correctly. Maybe I'll drop a thread in Whirlpool or something, asking if there're any other affordable UMTS 850 devices.

Anyway, as far as other phones go, have we considered anything Android (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_%28operating_system%29)-based? Among them, the HTC Dream (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Dream):

http://www.gadgetguy.com.au/assets/images/5654_HTC_Dream-black-open.jpg

http://www.itechnews.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/t-mobile-g1-htc-dream.jpg

One of the images came from this review (http://www.gadgetguy.com.au/dream-review-153056-23.html), which may or may not be of interest.

Also, apparently sometime into the future, the Motorola CLIQ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_CLIQ):

http://www.cnet.com/i/bto/20090910/2009-09-10_105613.jpg

Some cnet article on the CLIQ (http://www.cnet.com/8301-19736_1-10348941-251.html)

I'll see what else I can dig up on the Android if you're interested. There is an Android emulator (http://developer.android.com/guide/developing/tools/emulator.html), intended for developers, but it might be useful to demonstrate the OS.

-snip-
If you're that wound-up, go back and re-read - I used the irrational hate-reasons as a lead-up into a reflective "what is it about Apple that makes them so easy to hate?" discussion. I don't know what else you'd expect someone to do with their pent-up Apple vitriol.

[texta]

How bout the fact that the iPod doesn't have an on/off switch or battery removal? If the software freezes then you're stuck waiting for it's charge to die off... like mine did before my fourteen hour flight. This is just one of many problems I had with it. It's a ****ing one/off switch, every other goddamn device has one.'lol. All versions of the ipod and the iphone have a hard reset button. It's also possible to remove the battery with basic tools though I think that probably voids the warranty so it's not recommended.

[Zan]

lol. All versions of the ipod and the iphone have a hard reset button. It's also possible to remove the battery with basic tools though I think that probably voids the warranty so it's not recommended.
Trust me, I tried. I called up a friend who looked it up for me, and it did squat. My only consolation is that it froze with the backlight on, so the battery drained faster. :p

To actually contribute something to this thread, if I wanted to not own an iPhone and I was cool with throwing money at this predicament I'd buy a HTC Touch Pro 2.
http://www.cnet.com.au/htc-touch-pro2-339295020.htm

[Fenrir]

Zan: the TP2 has had plenty of mentions in here, the barrier is the price of a NextG-compatibable version (ie. the T7381 model TP2, capable of operating on Telstra's UMTS 850-based NextG network), as well as the Telstra-bloat on those models. Hell, I'd consider getting one for that price if I could get a clean ROM on it.

Apparently AT&T over in America will be getting the T7381 model made for their own UMTS 850 network, soon, though, so we *might* see some cheaper ones come onto the market.

Fair enough you base a decision more on functionality over aesthetics, but I also think its fair enough people wish to carry around something everyday that they like the look of that possibly offers the same level of functionality.
Definitely, and that's why I'm a fan of the HTC Touch Pro2/Touch HD models. My comment with regards iriver's fashion-trinkets was referring to all the flash-based necklace trinkets they make lately, which are functionally inferior.

[Serenity]

True, I'm not sure where I got the idea that this would be in any way a brief tangent.

Doesn't really help that your options with Telstra are direly limited - UMTS 850 support costs more for practically anything that isn't an iPhone, if I recall correctly. Maybe I'll drop a thread in Whirlpool or something, asking if there're any other affordable UMTS 850 devices.

Anyway, as far as other phones go, have we considered anything Android (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_%28operating_system%29)-based? Among them, the HTC Dream (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Dream):

http://www.gadgetguy.com.au/assets/images/5654_HTC_Dream-black-open.jpg

http://www.itechnews.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/t-mobile-g1-htc-dream.jpg

Thank you, I've had a bit of a read about it and I have to say, it doesn't look half bad. As for the Cliq, it looks quite good as well, but really, I never go away so October is the only chance I'll get to go to a phone store, play around, so on and so forth. It apparently doesn't come out till next year.

[nintendo]

Well this sure got out of hand quickly. Ill keep it short Shorty lolol

@ Fenrir

Yeah, would have cut it down, but I was on the bus on my iPhone....so I kinda cbf'd cutting it down.

I think our views on design also differ to fundamentally to ever come to an understanding. I personally dont think there are other better looking devices out now than the iPhone and the new Macs. So thats a dead horse if we continue down that road.

And again I think our views on MS and Apple are just two different sides of a coin.

I also think that our philosophies on design are too different to come to an understanding. I think there are no better looking devices on the market than the iPhone and the new iMacs. I personally think Jonathan Ive (sp?) from Apple is absolutely brilliant with his designs.

I cant comment on the technical aspects, I was just pointing out the reason Apple has given for not allowing background apps. It does sound logical though, however Im no expert.

I guess my experience with Palm and Windows Mobile have all soured me. I love how the iPhone does what it does and I really dont miss anything at all.

.Fin.

Also we can talk all day but really the best way is to just go into a store and ask to try out the different models. The best thing the internet is for is looking up technical information. Thats because most store clerks know shit all when it comes down to it, so it is usually better to have a solid understanding and knowledge of the topics at hand before you walk into the store. Because if youve already narrowed your search down when you do go into a store its simply a matter of taste/preference as to which you like better IRL.

[Serenity]

Ultimately it's down to the iPhone or any of these.
http://www.telstra.com.au/mobile/phones/search_results.cfm?brand=&price=&types=smartphone&types=coveragetick&searchfrom=postpaid
Preferably not the Nokia though.
Touch Pro2 is listed as ideal for "regional" areas.
http://www.telstra.com.au/mobile/phones/phone_details.cfm?phone=Touch%20Pro2

[Shorty]

OK, I think I've had to delete at least a third of the posts in this thread because it's gone too far off-topic. If you have any phone-related discussion, go for it but if you want to talk about double-jointed thumbs or how much you hate Apple then you can make your own thread about that (in fact, there already is a seperate Apple brand thread (http://www.hyper.com.au/forums/showthread.php?t=19419) you can post in).

Anyway, I think nintendo has the right idea. All the reviews on the Web can't quite measure up to going to a phone store and having a play around with the different models. Things like ergonomics and real world usability are hard to communicate through a text or even video review.

[nintendo]

I will say though that you should definitely give the iPhone a fair bit of a try though when your using it to type. At first it is very weird and takes awhile to get used to, but after the initial 'wierdness' I seriously wont even consider going back to a normal phone.

I also had a look around at the DickSmith near me today but I couldnt see the XPREIA in there at all. Maybe youll have to go into a Telstra shop to see it. Thats if it was Telstra someone was saying stock it in Aus. I did get to play around with a Blackberry Storm today, its a friends, and I just didnt feel it. Maybe Im to used to the form of the iPhone.

[JubeiSaotome]

http://byteside.com/byteblog/2009/09/australian-iphone-data-test-which-network-is-best/
For data rates: Telstra > Optus > Vodafone > 3

[Serenity]

http://byteside.com/byteblog/2009/09/australian-iphone-data-test-which-network-is-best/
For data rates: Telstra > Optus > Vodafone > 3

At least that's something Telstra has going for it.

[Araenel]

Sure but are you willing to pay for it?

[Serenity]

Yes. I am willing to pay for it.

[shallowdays]

Anyone know when the Palm Pre's getting an Australian release? I'm liking the look of it.

[Serenity]

No idea but this worries me. In http://www.telstra.com.au/mobile/phones/iphone/pricing.html it says:
Things you need to know:

1. iPhone 3GS and iPhone 3G are configured to work only with the wireless services provided by Telstra.
2. Excludes some calls/text/data. Unused calls/text/data expire each month.
3. Our FairPlay Policy applies to all Bonus Options.
4. Excludes some text. Unused text expires daily.
5. Telstra’s FairPlay and Acceptable Use Policies apply. Telstra WiFi hot spots are available in selected locations across Australia. To check the nearest WiFi hot spot in your area, visit Wireless Hotspots. The number and location of WiFi hot spots is subject to change as determined by Telstra.

Does this mean it won't work unless I am in a WiFi hotspot?

[Lazlow]

NextG is encompassed within Telstra's wireless services.

[Serenity]

NextG is encompassed within Telstra's wireless services.

Thank God. I had a brain asplosion when I read the fine print.

[Serenity]

K it's decided. I'm getting an iPhone. Next thing I need to do is decide what cap/browsing pack but I could probably do that on my own. Thanks heaps, everyone.

[Shorty]

You want this thread closed or kept open?

If you have any questions about your new iPhone, there's a thread for that (http://www.hyper.com.au/forums/showthread.php?t=18817).

[Fenrir]

May as well keep it open as a general smartphone thread.

I'm leaning towards getting the Touch HD, now, since I've seen it priced in the $700-$800 range lately.

[Serenity]

Yeah, I'm definitely still tempted by the Touch Pro2.

[Fenrir]

Hmm, in comparison to the ruthless pricing I've seen for the TP2 of late, this (http://www.techrific.com.au/htc-touch-pro-2-ii-telstra-nextg-smartphone-aus-stock-free-shipping-no-cc-surcharge-p-595.html?osCsid=be03e8f62ce49c59fa1ad32791c7d182) seems reasonable.
Actually, now might be a good time to scour ebay - maybe the whole exorbitant pricing rort has just been typical launch-era supply-demand overbalance, and the thing'll be affordable soon, if not now.

Also, same site for the Touch HD price I mentioned above (http://www.techrific.com.au/htc-touch-hd-t8285-telstra-nextg-smartphone-aus-stock-free-shipping-no-cc-surcharge-p-538.html?osCsid=be03e8f62ce49c59fa1ad32791c7d182).
I just remembered that I saw a 3.5mm audio jack on the Touch HD in the Telstra store, too, which the current TP2 models seem to lack. Yeah, I think I'll get a Touch HD.

[Serenity]

They both look really good. :3

[Fenrir]

The HTC Touch HD2 (http://www.htc.com/uk/product/hd2/specification.html) has been announced. It's apparently a bit bigger in size than it's predecessor, but the specs are more impressive. Should be out by early November, apparently.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/10/htc-hd2-2.jpg

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/10/htc-hd2-1.jpg

I doubt I'll bother with it. The thing's going to be a rehash of the drama of every other high-end phone to hit our shores - UMTS 850 compatibility problem, exorbitant price, etc. By the time a NextG-compatible one drops in price to a figure I could rationally consider forking over for a phone, the next big thing will be a mere month away.
Also doesn't appeal to me aesthetically, and has no keyboard, and I probably have no reason to complain about the specs of current phones at the moment.

[texta]

I really think you should go in and try one of these phones. They look great in theory but I've known people who've had several different HTC models and they've all had pretty serious flaws.

[Lazlow]

HTC's I've dealt with (albeit not that many) had some serious input lag.

[Fenrir]

I really think you should go in and try one of these phones. They look great in theory but I've known people who've had several different HTC models and they've all had pretty serious flaws.
I did the other day - the high-end models we're discussing seemed to perform well, at least in comparison to all the other scrap silicon-and-plastic that constitutes the last two decades of mobile phone technology. >_>

Maybe you're talking about older models, by-the-by?
Regardless, they're pretty much unequalled in my search. Also, I've been happy with this device (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_TyTN), second-hand, until the screen on it shattered.

[texta]

HTC's I've dealt with (albeit not that many) had some serious input lag.Yeah, that's what I've found as well. And it doesn't matter how good the features are on the phone, lag makes it unworkable.

But Fenrir is right that I haven't tried the really new ones so they may have improved things since then.

[TrinityJayOne]

My shiny new N97 just showed up, huzzah!

How easy would it be to replace the OS with WinMo, and should I bother? So far the stock Symbian has been nothing but excellent. I've heard WinMo adds more customization, but after several hours of tinkering I'm yet to find any roadblacks in this department. Also worried that I'd lose all the work that must have gone to tweaking Symbian for this specific phone, and that any WinMo install would be a generic setup.

Thoughts?

[Italian Stallion]

I'm pretty certain you aren't able to install WinMo on it. Phones are designed to use a specific OS, and short of others being hacked onto it (ie. Android on Samsung's Omnia), that's what they're stuck with. You may be able to find a version that's been hacked onto it, but most of the time they don't work as well as intended and won't match the OS they're made for.

Great phone btw. :)

As for the discussion earlier re HTC phones being laggy - the earlier firmwares on some of their phones like the Diamond were pretty laggy, but they improved them greatly. I'd happily use one now.

[TrinityJayOne]

I'm pretty certain you aren't able to install WinMo on it. Phones are designed to use a specific OS, and short of others being hacked onto it (ie. Android on Samsung's Omnia), that's what they're stuck with. You may be able to find a version that's been hacked onto it, but most of the time they don't work as well as intended and won't match the OS they're made for.

Great phone btw. :)

As for the discussion earlier re HTC phones being laggy - the earlier firmwares on some of their phones like the Diamond were pretty laggy, but they improved them greatly. I'd happily use one now.
Tis indeed, although there seems to be a distinct lack of widgets for those who don't use social networking sites.

[V²]

Having read through this thread,
and especially the Stallion's post,
which phone for me?
Iphone, or samesung(pep for reference) Icon HD (i8910)
the thing holding me back from iphone is itunes.
and the release of new iphone in june 2010
the thing I am concerned about with Icon, not free GPS.
Help me hyper, you're my only hope!

[Italian Stallion]

No free GPS? How so? I'm pretty sure the only thing that costs money is the weekly update of satellite positions to increase the speed of GPS tracking.. you can likely set it so that it only downloads that data when you're connected to the internet over wifi or through your computer. Otherwise, I know for sure my GPS doesn't use internet or anything.

As for which one... I'd say go with the Samsung. Much nicer screen, good camera (as opposed to the crap on the iPhone) & video recording (720p ftw), better battery life & storage expansion. Just a great phone overall. :) The phone also runs on Symbian OS like TrinityJayOne's new N97, and as he mentioned, it's "nothing but excellent."

But if you're keen to buy a toy with a built in phone, get the one made by Apple. :p

[V²]

I wish I could pep you,
you are so helpful to everyone in this thread.
I was leaning towards the HD,
Thank you

[Shorty]

What was it about iTunes that was holding you back from the iPhone?

[Silverwolf]

What was it about iTunes that was holding you back from the iPhone?

Because iTunes is an awful, nasty, dirty program.

[Shorty]

I don't understand this hate that people have for iTunes.

[Silverwolf]

I don't understand this hate that people have for iTunes.

It's just bad, there are so many superior choices to play music out there, the Windows version of iTunes is poor.
Plus the fact you MUST have it for music if you have an iPod or iPhone is a massive pain in the ass.

[Shorty]

It's just bad, there are so many superior choices to play music out there, the Windows version of iTunes is poor.
Plus the fact you MUST have it for music if you have an iPod or iPhone is a massive pain in the ass.

You could just use iTunes to sync your iPod or put tunes on there and then listen to your music on your computer using something else, if that's what you prefer (I think iTunes is just fine, so I don't mind using it). It's about five minutes to sync my iPhone and then I can shut that down and drag-and-drop my MP3s into Mplayer or whatever. Doesn't seem that painful to me.

[Italian Stallion]

It's library management sucks, reorganizes music without even asking & it's drag and drop support is horrid. Uses more memory than any other media player I've used, especially with large libraries.. with which it runs really slow comparatively. The installer is lame and installs a bunch of other useless & equally crap programs unless you specifically tell it not to.

That said, last time I used iTunes was about this time last year on my Vista system... which iTunes caused repreated BSoD's on. GG iTunes.

[Shorty]

Well, I primarily use iTunes on the Mac so that might influence things as well. I'd heard that iTunes was a bit hit-and-miss on Windows, particularly with Vista and 7 (I still use XP Pro so again, that influences my experience). I don't know if things have improved over the past year. I would hope they would have.

But again, iTunes is only compulsory to sync your iPod/iPhone. After that, you can shut it down and use whatever. Bottom line, I wouldn't rule out the iPhone solely because of iTunes.

[Lex]

Nah, iTunes is still shit for windows. If it chugs
my pc, I know there's something wrong.

[V²]

As people have stated above, Itunes is not an easy program to deal with.
If having the option of a phone with compulsory itunes, or one without,
I would rather the less frustration.
I'm happy syncing with wmp, or simple drag and drop

[StorminNorman]

It's library management sucks

In what way?

reorganizes music without even asking

By default, iTunes won't "keep your music folder organised".

& it's drag and drop support is horrid.

It works perfectly fine for me on both Mac OS X and Windows 7.

Uses more memory than any other media player I've used

This isn't really problem if you have more than half a gigabyte of RAM, though.

especially with large libraries.. with which it runs really slow comparatively.

I've never really found this (and I have a pretty big library). It does chug a bit if the library is on a Samba share, though.

The installer is lame and installs a bunch of other useless & equally crap programs unless you specifically tell it not to.

Never had this happen. Maybe you should download it from Apple's website rather than some bizarre Russian download site.

That said, last time I used iTunes was about this time last year on my Vista system... which iTunes caused repreated BSoD's on. GG iTunes.

Your computer probably has hardware problems if it's BSODing (kernel panics/BSODs are nearly always problems with either drivers or hardware. User software can only cause them by interacting with buggy drivers/bad hardware, even in Windows).

I will admit that older version of iTunes for Windows were pretty dodgy, but iTunes 9 seems to have fixed almost all of the problems I was having with it, and the one problem I still have with it is actually a Windows problem that iTunes exacerbates in certain situations.

That said, the Mac version will always be the superior version.

[Lazlow]

I've used iTunes on Windows since Uni - so about 5 or 6 years now - long before I got an iPhone (which is my first iPod).

I'm used to it, know how to use, and thus tolerate it. But its a f***ing goddamn memory hog, and takes a long time to load. And this is with only 919 songs. Granted my CPU (P4 2.8Ghz) is a bit long in the tooth, but supported with 2GB RAM I runs most desktop apps fine.

And whilst it's commonplace with nearly every Apple product, I hate the fact every update is an 80-200MB download.

Also for a company that prides itself on sleek design, I can't believe its still using that shit dreary GUI. The whole iTunes/Store design needs a serious overhaul.

The installer is lame and installs a bunch of other useless & equally crap programs unless you specifically tell it not to.

They've amalgamated Quicktime & iTunes (as iTunes has Quicktime built in for video playback) into one installer, so the only other program it asks to install is Safari. And stopping that is as simple as unchecking the option on the first screen of the installer.

[Italian Stallion]

In what way?
Having to force it to realise there's new music in the library is more than enough.

By default, iTunes won't "keep your music folder organised".
At least they've fixed that. It was on by default when used it a while ago.

It works perfectly fine for me on both Mac OS X and Windows 7.
Mostly drag & drop just doesn't feel very refined or polished when it comes to adding music when you have a couple of different playlists.

This isn't really problem if you have more than half a gigabyte of RAM, though.
Just because it can use excessive amounts of RAM doesn't mean it should just for the sake of it. Better media players use less.

I've never really found this (and I have a pretty big library). It does chug a bit if the library is on a Samba share, though.
Well, when I load 150GB+ into it, it really doesn't seem to like it.

Never had this happen. Maybe you should download it from Apple's website rather than some bizarre Russian download site.
It was an installer directly from Apple's website. By a "bunch", I meant Quicktime & Safari, both of which are useless to me and far too big for what they are.

Your computer probably has hardware problems if it's BSODing (kernel panics/BSODs are nearly always problems with either drivers or hardware. User software can only cause them by interacting with buggy drivers/bad hardware, even in Windows).
Funnily enough, it was caused when plugging in my iPod! It wasn't something limited either, lots of people experienced it.. there's heaps of articles regarding it.

I will admit that older version of iTunes for Windows were pretty dodgy, but iTunes 9 seems to have fixed almost all of the problems I was having with it, and the one problem I still have with it is actually a Windows problem that iTunes exacerbates in certain situations.
I can't say I've used the latest iTunes yet - as I said, has been about a year since I last touched it, but it was a pretty horrible experience all round at the time.

[Shorty]

I believe QuickTime is included because iTunes needs it for video playback. I don't know if you can skip on it if you already have QT installed. I'm pretty sure Safari is entirely optional, though.

[Lex]

gawwwd norman, could you be any more of an apple apologist? The win version of itunes is shit. deal with it.

[StorminNorman]

Having to force it to realise there's new music in the library is more than enough.

Use the "Automatically Add to iTunes" folder.

At least they've fixed that. It was on by default when used it a while ago.

It's, um, never been on by default (at least, not in the Mac version).

Just because it can use excessive amounts of RAM doesn't mean it should just for the sake of it. Better media players use less.

RAM's cheap, and modern operating systems can manage it pretty well. This is a total non-issue.

Well, when I load 150GB+ into it, it really doesn't seem to like it.

Well, there's your problem!

It was an installer directly from Apple's website. By a "bunch", I meant Quicktime & Safari, both of which are useless to me and far too big for what they are.

QuickTime for Windows (which is horrible, I admit) is required for iTunes to work on Windows. On the Mac, QuickTime is a complete media architecture similar to whatever the Windows media architecture is called these days, and is just part of the OS.

iTunes 9 seems to be a lot better about this, though.


Funnily enough, it was caused when plugging in my iPod! It wasn't something limited either, lots of people experienced it.. there's heaps of articles regarding it.

Like I said, bad hardware/drivers cause BSODs.

I can't say I've used the latest iTunes yet - as I said, has been about a year since I last touched it, but it was a pretty horrible experience all round at the time.

iTunes for Windows improves with each version. I have to admit that I had a lot of trouble with earlier versions, especially in Vista. At one stage, I was forced to use Winamp because of the trouble I was having! Fortunately, iTunes 9 pretty much fixes every single problem that I was having, and is greatly improved over the older versions.

It's still nowhere near as nice to use as the Mac version, but if you're a Mac user that needs a familiar media environment in Windows, then it's absolutely the best choice. I just kind of wish they'd give it the same overhaul they recently gave Safari for Windows, and make it a much more "Windows-like" program.

[Watchers]

Bumping this thread since my contract on my phone is almost up, so I'm looking at new phones.

Anyone got any suggestions? My cap is around $50/month, so anything in that ballpark.

Currently thinking about -

iPhone: Love the idea of all the apps / games / wifi, but hate iTunes etc. Also, tends to be more expensive
Samsung i7500 Galaxy: Android, decent sounding features
Sony Ericsson Aino: PS3 play (would I actually use it? Probably not!), pretty
Nokia N97: Nice looking, all round phone

Yeah. Basically, I like the idea of downloading apps and games and such, would like to do a bit of web browsing on it, and I'd like competent camera functionality. Oh, and making calls would be good >_>

Edit: Also, GPS would be a plus.

[TrinityJayOne]

I have the N97 so I'll limit my pearls of wisdom to that-

-Has GPS
-Has good camera
-App store isn't nearly as good as iPhone's
-Web browsing is good (get Opera Mobile)
-32GB memory build in, expandable with another 16GB
-Makes calls

My only qualm is that it's a bit lacking in CPU power. The auto-rotate especially is nowhere near as smooth as what the iPhone does. Definitely a candidate for you though, pretty sure you could find one for $50/mth with nothing (or very little) upfront.

[Knuckle Children]

My two cents: despite the Apple haters, I think you should get the iPhone without hesitation. From my experience with the other smartphones, namely Nokia and HTC, the iPhone blitzes them in terms of useability and functionality/intuitiveness. The app store is an added bonus.

I was tossing up between an N97, HTC Diamond and iPhone 3GS. After road-testing them all, from my perspective, the iPhone eclipses the competition and leaves them in its dust. It may be a trend to hate on the iPhone in some circles, but it really is the best phone on the market.

The only downside from your list of requirements is that the iPhone's camera is 3.2 megapixels, less than most others in the high-end range

[StorminNorman]

The N97 is trash. (http://gizmodo.com/5308440/nokia-n97-review-nokia-is-doomed) Don't get one.

[TrinityJayOne]

Yes yes, you hate Symbian. :P If anyone needs me, I'll be over here running two programs at once.