Microsoft's Shonky Points System vs Shonky Lawyer

[aubergine]

A guy who sounds about as professional as Lionel Hutz is suing Microsofy for, well, a raft of reasons, among which is hot topic-of-the-moment, "Microsofy Points".

http://i.joystiq.com/2010/01/26/class-action-suit-charges-microsoft-with-fraud/

The lawyer may lack credibility but the timing is interesting, coming days after that Microsoft guy (will find link later) said words to the effect "We didn't MEAN to be shonky" without any prompting, in regards to their shonky points-for-DLC system that disguises the true cost of things and forces you to buy more "funbucks" than it's possible to evenly spend, meaning M$ has millions in essentially stolen money in their accounts from all those leftover bundles of 30-200 points.

There was a terrific analysis of the statemnt and system up on, Eurogamer I think.

[concrete donkey]

A guy who sounds about as professional as Lionel Hutz is suing Microsofy for, well, a raft of reasons, among which is hot topic-of-the-moment, "Microsofy Points".

http://i.joystiq.com/2010/01/26/class-action-suit-charges-microsoft-with-fraud/

The lawyer may lack credibility but the timing is interesting, coming days after that Microsoft guy (will find link later) said words to the effect "We didn't MEAN to be shonky" without any prompting, in regards to their shonky points-for-DLC system that disguises the true cost of things and forces you to buy more "funbucks" than it's possible to evenly spend, meaning M$ has millions in essentially stolen money in their accounts from all those leftover bundles of 30-200 points.

There was a terrific analysis of the statemnt and system up on, Eurogamer I think.



i'd be happy if Microsoft just lets us use our Gamerscore for microsoft points.

[aubergine]

Here's the Eurogamer article about $M Points.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/points-mean-prizes-article

[sausage]

Corporate PR is a funny business, and I often wonder to what extent people like Greenberg grit their teeth as they're forced to paint solid, well-considered (albeit not terribly consumer friendly) business strategies as unfortunate accidents, depicting their undoubtedly thoughtful and well-informed decision-makers as hapless slapstick bunglers, accidentally knocking over fragile jars and then grinning sheepishly when mountains of cash pour out of them.




Brilliant writing.

[TrinityJayOne]

I'm all for the simplification of purchases, but I don't think that MS points are the evil Eurogamer makes them out to be. Yes, most purchases leave you with a small figure that may entice you to buy themes or avatar items you wouldn't ordinarily pay for......but that is your choice to do so. At no point are you forced to spend them, and eventually you'll find that your latest purchase has left you with enough leftover for something you would have paid for anyway.

Also, the shonky lawyer article is about points being deducted without the item being made available, not the ethics behind the points system.

[Vindik8or]

Do the points expire? I'm pretty sure that'd force you to either spend or pay for more. I doubt Microsoft will allow you to ever cash out any points.

[adam_91vn]

Yeah some of the points expire.

[AranchineD]

It's like real money, except it's, you know, fun.

[McChimp]

I like the PSN system more than the MS and Ninty system, especially the Ninty one, because I can guarantee no matter how I buy my points or spend them, I've still always got a useless 100 points left. PSN's system is awesome; you see the exact dollar value and pay for it as-is without having to spend more than needed.

[TrinityJayOne]

Do the points expire? I'm pretty sure that'd force you to either spend or pay for more. I doubt Microsoft will allow you to ever cash out any points.
Paid-for ones don't, some special offers can I think.

[Stevorooni]

I like the PSN system more than the MS and Ninty system, especially the Ninty one, because I can guarantee no matter how I buy my points or spend them, I've still always got a useless 100 points left. PSN's system is awesome; you see the exact dollar value and pay for it as-is without having to spend more than needed.

Unless you are paying for something less than $10 and don't have enough in your account, it makes you put on a minimum of $10

[aubergine]

It's ****ing nonsense that if you want to buy an 800 point game, the real cost is 1000 points. I don't go to EB and spend $100 on an $80 game with a promise of $20 off my next game, nor does this model apply to any other rational consumer purchase I can think of. You are forced to invest an additional 25% of the cost of a game. You should have the option of buying one game once and never again, or of someday leaving your Xbox behind, without loose change rattling around in it. If you want a 1200 point game, that's 1500 points you have to buy.

Trying to champion Microsoft by saying you can spend the leftovers later is complete crap. How about I just pay what the game costs and keep my extra money in my bank account where it belongs.

Or rather, on my credit card, rather than having to pay interest on it.

[Lazlow]

What Aubergine said, I've got nothing to add.

I hate the deceptive nature of the system but I'm forced to use it on those rare occasions I want to purchase something (Forza DLC, SSF2THDR)

[Antwandemarco]

It's ****ing nonsense that if you want to buy an 800 point game, the real cost is 1000 points. I don't go to EB and spend $100 on an $80 game with a promise of $20 off my next game, nor does this model apply to any other rational consumer purchase I can think of. You are forced to invest an additional 25% of the cost of a game. You should have the option of buying one game once and never again, or of someday leaving your Xbox behind, without loose change rattling around in it. If you want a 1200 point game, that's 1500 points you have to buy.

Trying to champion Microsoft by saying you can spend the leftovers later is complete crap. How about I just pay what the game costs and keep my extra money in my bank account where it belongs.

Or rather, on my credit card, rather than having to pay interest on it.

I totally agree with all points made, it's just that i don't give a shit.

*bends over allowing bill gates to forcibly insert a zune into his rectum*

[TrinityJayOne]

I totally agree with all points made, it's just that i don't give a shit.

*bends over allowing bill gates to forcibly insert a zune into his rectum*
As I buy things relatively often, I'm in this boat.

[Second]

I'll just take the "i don't give a shit" part, as I tend to spend a ****ton of points on random crap. I can see how others could be pissed, though.

[Ninjalada]

Ah, the ol' dodgy lawyer vs video games situation. What ever happened to Jack Thompson?

Oh that's right, he got disbarred and humiliated.

[Lazlow]

Except this is a compeltely different situation.

[Ninjalada]

Except this is a compeltely different situation.

That too.

[aubergine]

This guy is a whole different can of troll. I doubt he'll be as interesting or have half the staying power of Purity Jack.

[Australian Ninja]

I like the PSN system more than the MS and Ninty system, especially the Ninty one, because I can guarantee no matter how I buy my points or spend them, I've still always got a useless 100 points left. PSN's system is awesome; you see the exact dollar value and pay for it as-is without having to spend more than needed.

Imaginary PR Guy: "Okay Sony, what's your angle with this download scam?

SONY: "It's not a scam, you purchase content online with money"

PR Guy: "What do you call this money, fun dollars, burns bucks, ruddbucks, how much do we make unuseable?"

SONY: "None, you just purchase whatever you want for the stated amount"

PR Guy: "It'll never work, you people are crazy! Now help me burn these documents....."

[turb06]

Imaginary PR Guy: "Okay Sony, what's your angle with this download scam?

SONY: "It's not a scam, you purchase content online with money"

PR Guy: "What do you call this money, fun dollars, burns bucks, ruddbucks, how much do we make unuseable?"

SONY: "None, you just purchase whatever you want for the stated amount"

PR Guy: "It'll never work, you people are crazy! Now help me burn these documents....."

the PSN system is no different. you need to put a minimum $10 in your wallet, if your purchase is less than that then you have the same problem.

[Bokracroc]

And you still get stuck with like, $3.45 with nothing of interest to purchase.

BUT OH NO IT'S SO MUCH BETTER BECAUSE I KNOW EXACTLY HOW MUCH DEAD-MONEY I HAVE IN MY ACCOUNT INSTEAD OF SOME ARBITRARY NUMBER.

[aubergine]

Sony: We want you to know EXACTLY how much we suck.

[Halt, Hammerzeit]

From memory, whether you buy 500, 1000 or 5000 MS points, the price goes up proportionately (eg, 1000 points costs the same as 2x 500 and 5000 points the same as 5x 1000). It's not hard to work out how much you're paying for stuff when you can easily work out the cost per 100 points.

I do take issue with the fact that you can't put everything you want in a shopping basket of sorts then just pay for what you want.

[Cerebral]

I always buy points in multiples of 400, and never buy gay themes >_>

Balance of 0 points, baby!

[Thraxas]

I always buy points in multiples of 400, and never buy gay themes

Yeah the straight ones are so much better :p

[Manny M]

The other day I went to buy some content which was 1440 points... I had 1400 in my account.

Evil.

[Gutsman Heavy]

I hate that shit, I had to buy 500 points 'cos I needed 10

[Natrak]

The other day I went to buy some content which was 1440 points... I had 1400 in my account.

Evil.

Man, I was disappointed with the price of the SSFIV complete costume pack, it's still a saving over purchasing each one individually, but 1440 works out to about $22 in the real world. Pretty ridiculous for content that's already on the disc. Goddamn Capcom, rolling suckers like me.

[Halt, Hammerzeit]

It may be a stupid question, but why would you pay money for something that's already on the disk? Is it something that's on the disk but can't access without paying extra for it? Because that sounds like a total rip off.

[Natrak]

That's exactly what it is, and it is a rip-off, really. But I'm a sucker for more character costumes.

Capcom would try to justify it by claiming that the content's on the disc so that online users who haven't purchased the content can still see the dlc costumes if their opponents are using them.

This could also be achieved by releasing a free version of the DLC that only allows you to see the costumes when an online opponent who has purchased the premium content uses them, however. Much like Lionhead's approach with Fable II's DLC. Of course, you'd still be paying for content that had been completed before the game went gold.

[TrinityJayOne]

That's how Turn 10 do it with the Forza games. Each DLC car pack has a free version that is identical to the paid one, except only one of the cars is useable. People download it for the free car and there's no hiccups in MP.