New Amp and Speakers Set Up

[Space_Monkey]

I'm looking at buying a new amp and set of Speakers to go with my new TV.

Looking at around $800 to $950 as my budget but if anything can be saved well so much the better.

Any suggestions?

Keeping in mind I'm not a huge sound buff I only need some that will be of good quality and will last as I probably won't upgrade for a good many years to come.

[Vicious]

Stereo or surround? If you're looking at surround the best you'll probably get for that budget is probably a Yamaha HTiB, and expect to replace it quite often (HTiB receivers are treated as disposables more often than not).

If you're looking at stereo however you could get a nice set of Wharfedale 9.1D (http://clefhifi.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=38&products_id=163) bookshelves and a Cambridge (http://clefhifi.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=34&products_id=498) integrated. You could also call them and see whether you can negotiate for a better amp/speakers since they offer discounts when you call them apparently. Get a sub later on and you'll have a very good quality listening experience, though not surround.

If able to negotiate well enough you may be lucky enough to get a Cambridge Azur 540R (http://clefhifi.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=490) as a surround receiver with the diamonds . . . but you'll probably have to wait and save more cash to fill in the missing speakers till you get to 5.1 . . .

Hope that gives you some ideas at least.

[Space_Monkey]

Stereo or surround? If you're looking at surround the best you'll probably get for that budget is probably a Yamaha HTiB, and expect to replace it quite often (HTiB receivers are treated as disposables more often than not).

If you're looking at stereo however you could get a nice set of Wharfedale 9.1D (http://clefhifi.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=38&products_id=163) bookshelves and a Cambridge (http://clefhifi.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=34&products_id=498) integrated. You could also call them and see whether you can negotiate for a better amp/speakers since they offer discounts when you call them apparently. Get a sub later on and you'll have a very good quality listening experience, though not surround.

If able to negotiate well enough you may be lucky enough to get a Cambridge Azur 540R (http://clefhifi.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=490) as a surround receiver with the diamonds . . . but you'll probably have to wait and save more cash to fill in the missing speakers till you get to 5.1 . . .

Hope that gives you some ideas at least.

Thankyou man that's good advise.

Yeesh though how much for surround?

I'd be using it for DVDs as much as music, more actually! When it comes to speakers I pretty lost, are there any thing I can look out for like Watts?

[Vicious]

Thankyou man that's good advise.

Yeesh though how much for surround?

It really depends on what you're looking for. If you want something that's going to last a substantial time lifespan wise you have to consider part quality, build quality, and overall design.

I'd be using it for DVDs as much as music, more actually! When it comes to speakers I pretty lost, are there any thing I can look out for like Watts?

The problem is actually amplifiers more or less. I suggest you read this (http://www.audioholics.com/education/amplifier-technology/amplifier-power-ratings) which pretty much explains why "watts" are often useless.

A quick summary though:

Two formulas you need to know.

Ohms law: current = voltage/resistance
Watts = current x voltage

You know how your speakers say they're an 8 ohm load or something like that? Well, that's not quite true . . . it's an average of what it really is as inductance isn't static and is variable with frequency. One second it could be 16 ohms (which is easy enough to handle) and the next second it could be 3 ohms (which is difficult without a large enough transformer -- the most expensive part in an amp). So what happens when you have a 3 ohm load but not enough current from the amp (resistance is lower, more current is needed)? A special type of distortion called "clipping". This is what kills tweeters in speakers more often than not as it causes speakers' voice coils to overheat which tweeters are most sensitive too. Given you'd have to consistently play a frequency that would hit this impedance to blow the speakers, but it still makes a very unpleasant sound that people don't notice till they move away from it.

If you're wondering how they overheat if they're getting less power I understand, it's a good question to ask yourself right about now. When a speaker moves properly air is pushed over the voice coils which cools them. When clipping occurs the speakers don't move properly, and the amount of heat that builds up is considered roughly twice what it normally would be. When the heat doesn't get dissipated the voice coils burn-out and fail. So let's say you had a speaker saying it was good for 100 watts . . . well, if you feed it 75W clipping you're going to fry it even though you've reached no where near the maximum rating. So much good those speaker watt ratings would do right?

Next, clipping can also cause problems for the receiver/amp. You can overheat the transformer by trying to pull more current than it supports making it overheat. This is why it's dangerous to take a speaker with a 4 ohm nominal load and hook it to a cheap receiver -- either one or both will surely die in the process.

Regardless, over time clipping does take a toll on your components and reduce the lifespan significantly (assuming they're used regularly).

Of course, there's ways to avoid this. First, the bad way. Some receivers allow you to select a "4 ohm" menu setting. This cuts the current already deficient more to the already deprived speakers. What this will actually do is make it so the heat is allowed to build, but hopefully not to the point the speaker breaks down (while allowing distortion to worsen more). It also keeps the receiver from killing itself, but it's an extremely cheap and poor solution to the problem and isn't particularly good for the speakers (the heat and cool down cycle puts stress on the voice coil).

Some amps have a transformer that's able to supply a good heft of current for a short period of time which is called "dynamic" power, which is usually rated at popular impedances (8,6,4,2 ohms). That means if your speakers dip into this, it can minimize the impact of clipping for a short period of time. Most well built receivers (Cambridge, Rotel, NAD, etc) will be able to do this. These aren't the best to hook a nominal 4 ohm load to, but a 6 or 8 ohm load for the most part should be alright. It's a better compromise.

Beyond this, one should just buy an amp that supports a 4 ohm load and be done with it. That way you don't have to worry about the transformer winding shorting/melting/etc and your speakers are perfectly safe.


This is why HTiB systems are made the way they are. They use extremely small drivers to prevent huge impedance dips and that way both tend to be able to get by for a while. I cringe when I see people hook up larger inefficient speakers because it usually means a death sentence for the receiver within a year or so -- and possibly the speakers too.


I know that was long winded, but hopefully it has some benefit to you.

[Suteki]

Is $900 your limit? Because the reality is you're going to be stuck with Lifestyle systems at that price point. I mean you can find some reasonable sort of setups but they'll be made of lower end components, particularly if going with say Yamaha you'll be getting the RXV365. I would personally consider possibly saving some more and picking up a decent receiver and then looking at speakers. Wharfedale do a few good packages under the $1k mark in terms of speakers and would go nicely with something like a Denon A590. Package would be around $1500 all up but would be a substantially better package than anything you will get at $900 and be Dolby TrueHD and DTS HDMA capabale.

As Vicious also pointed out, watts is a useless yard stick to measure speakers on as it's a moving target.