Heavy Rain *spoiler* thread

[igotnewsuper8systemWRONG!]

This needs to exist, sooner or later the game will be spoilt for someone in the other thread.

Mayaswell get the ball rolling with my ending.

Norman died towards the end, it seems I used ARI for too long. Pretty devo because I was literally about to exit when it happened and I didn't see it coming at all. Now I know what that butler guy was on about when he kept telling me that too much something might be bad for my health.

Scott was shot by Ethan, Lauren spat on his grave.

Ethan saved Shaun and moved into an apartment with Madison, an apartment that looks like it may be straight out of Indigo Prophecy.

[Lex]

Supposedly if you don't get them all meeting up at the end, you're a failure. Whatever that means.

[igotnewsuper8systemWRONG!]

Lex get out of here you're ruining your future enjoyment.

[borgster101]

This is the ending I got.

Ethan found Shaun .. and saved him, Scott turns up is about to shoot him, then Norman comes to save the day! Norman and Scott battle it out on top of a crane in the rain of course ... Scott slips, and Norman reaches in to lift him up, but Scott the bastard continues to fight, hence Norman finishes him off and Scott falls down into a compactor squashed to his death.

Ethan and Madison move into an apartment with Shaun, and Norman is known as the hero who captured the Orgami killer, he also gives up on his drug addiction.

Probably the best ending, except for somehow getting Scott to survive .. this is why I reached out to save him, but then when Scott still started throwing punches, he ended up getting killed anyway ... bah!

Oh and Lauren died in the car in the ocean, I was moving too quickly and didn't save her.

[Gameboffin]

The revenge scene for Lauren is pretty cool, even if it makes no sense after the 'big reveal'.

[StorminNorman]

Oh and Lauren died in the car in the ocean, I was moving too quickly and didn't save her.

How do you save her? The game never seemed to even offer me the option. I had a couple of chances to revive her, but then I was just suddenly escaping from the car without her and there didn't seem to be any way to keep reviving her.

I just assumed it wasn't even possible.

[Zace]

shit everyone's ending is different

For me, Ethan rescued Shaun and was then confronted by Scott. Then as I made my way outside the second cop (I forget his name, but the partner of the one you control) had a police baracade setup and gunned down Ethan with Shaun watching.

Madison escaped the burning apartment and the game ends with Shaun on Ethan's grave with Scott and Madison watching from a distance.

[borgster101]

How do you save her? The game never seemed to even offer me the option. I had a couple of chances to revive her, but then I was just suddenly escaping from the car without her and there didn't seem to be any way to keep reviving her.

I just assumed it wasn't even possible.

I don't know, I ended up swimming out of the car without helping Lauren at all, but I'm pretty sure there was another option that would have been to release her ... there has to be a way given some endings will feature her in some way it seems.


It's pretty cool how everyone is getting different endings, obviously based on the decisons and events that happened during the game.

I'm assuming everyone went to bed with Madison and forgave her though, assuming they had that option I guess :p

[igotnewsuper8systemWRONG!]

How do you save her? The game never seemed to even offer me the option. I had a couple of chances to revive her, but then I was just suddenly escaping from the car without her and there didn't seem to be any way to keep reviving her.

I just assumed it wasn't even possible.

I don't recall exactly and my friend currently has my game (so I can't confirm), but I had no trouble getting her out of the car. Tried some different endings where Shelby gets away and Lauren confronts him in the street and kills him.

[borgster101]

I'm just going to repost what I said over at PCPP. Time saving. :P

----

I need to be honest here. The killer's identity pissed me off.

It is such a shame too because I was loving every aspect of the game up until we learn who the Origami Killer is.

It was cheap and the way the plot was structured to so obviously throw you off the sent. Eugh.


It has really soured the experience for me in retrospect. A shame because right up until that point I just couldn't turn away or put down the controller.

The game's biggest problem is that it is so narrative driven that when the central premise is broken or executed poorly in a manner that cheats the observer everything else (no matter how good) starts to crumble.

I loved Heavy Rain and recommend it to people who want a new experience but there is a lot broken with that game's story and because all game elements are designed to serve that story they suffer in the end.

I find that with these sorts of stories there is always going to be people disappointed with who ends up being the killer. I like to think that murder is so horrible (especially the way it is conducted in Heavy Rain .. not to mention the trials that Ethan is forced to go through) that there’s never going to be a legitimate / satisfying motive to do these acts anyway, because we’re looking at it from our own sane perspective and thinking ..” oh come on that’s no reason for murder”! But that’s just it Shelby is nuts due to his tragic childhood.

So it’s kind of like the mystery and journey itself is more rewarding and awesome than the final reveal at the end. I agree though that this final reveal does make everything else all the more awesome when it provides some great closure to the narrative and I can understand that for some people who the killer ends up being isn't perhaps how they wanted the story to end.

Ultimately though I was fairly satisfied with who the killer turned out to be, since it was unexpected. It made sense too, basically Shelby was “investigating” the murders to get rid of any remaining evidence … and when you think about it there's some clues that Shelby is the murderer early on for example he mentions he is investigating on behalf of the parents of the victims, but in fact he visits these parents (Lauren, that shop keeper) and they don’t know who he is! Also, when Lauren figures out the connection to John Shepared, Shelby tries to shrug it off .. because he knows this may actually lead things to him, and continues to blame that rich spoilt kid for things. So yeah overall, I liked how it turned out .. better than it turning out to be Ethan all along, that would have sucked because it didn't really make much sense that he would kill all those other boys before taking his own son.

[ElPresidente]

Oh it makes sense. My issue isn't that it makes sense but rather it ONLY makes sense in retrospect.

Summarising a post I made in the main thread (didn't know this thread existed at the time) my issue isn't that Shelby's identity as the killer didn't make sense (and despite what so many reviews have said I thought his motives were completely believable), instead it is ultimately a deus ex machina where they need to go back to previous scenes (Shelby killing the typewriter guy for example) which we had NOT been part of to fill out the justification.

It is bad story telling no matter how well you can justify it after the fact. The point is not once is the visitor given a reason to remotely suspect Shelby. The red herrings on the other hand such as Ethan and that rich guy's kid gave plenty of reason to suspect them.

It was a deliberate foil on David Cage's part to make the reveal more shocking but it breaks with some very important narrative rules. It was deliberate misconception. The correct way to have done it would have been to give people as much of a reason to suspect Shelby as they did to suspect the Lieutenant, Ethan, rich kid or any of the other characters the story deliberately presents us as possibilities.

Not once was Shelby realistically a suspect until the very end and that, to me, constitutes a betrayal of your audience.

BTW - To save Lauren you have to keep trying to wake her after your free... I think after you've tried once the second try moves to trying to free her. Either way you just need to do whatever action isn't kicking the window out to save her.

[igotnewsuper8systemWRONG!]

ElPres you have been typing a lot of words, but is it correct that the only thing you want to say is that you're disappointed by the reveal due to the lack of clues indicating that Shelby is the killer?

[Rambo]

Yeah so I got the good ending, everyone walked out and no one got shot, Scott died in the conveyor belt and Norman got the tanks ending.

His eye was bleeding from using the ARI too long. I've hired the game out, so I don't think that I'll go back and try again. Or save Lauren from the drowning car.

Someone can just post the other endings, I've got the happy resolution I wanted after the horrible ending I got before :P.

[ElPresidente]

ElPres you have been typing a lot of words, but is it correct that the only thing you want to say is that you're disappointed by the reveal due to the lack of clues indicating that Shelby is the killer?

Yes but it goes more deep than that.

Had there been no clues at all as to the identity of the killer that would be fine.

Instead there are plenty of clues to indicate others are the killer but not Shelby.

As I said, nothing wrong with a red herring but at you need at least one real fish in there for that to work as a narrative technique.

[borgster101]

Yeah fair enough, I guess it doesn't bother me as much because I don't like being able to know who the killer is before it is revealed, I like the fact that it comes out of nowhere and yet still makes sense.

I see where you're coming from though. I mentioned examples where there are some clues earlier in the game that Shelby is the killer, but you're right in that you can only see them after you finish it a first time. Still .. is that a bad thing? I guess that's where the cheap / feel cheated feeling comes from, but for me I liked the fact that it came out of nowhere but still actually made logical sense.

For me, in these sort of stories I hate it when I can guess who the killer is early on .. I feel cheated that there wasn't some crazy twist! :p Whereas when there is a good twist, even if it's due to deliberately directing the audience/player in the wrong direction .. I still like it :p


Oh yeah, I played through again from the save Lauren chapter to get some trophies I missed ... but I missed out on the 4 heroes one, cause this time Ethan got shot by the police as he was walking out with Shaun and Madison got arrested! Damnit! :p But I did get the "So Close" trophy .. hahah! Shit .. I really like how the outcome can drastically change based on the decisons you make.

[Cobla]

The first time I played through everyone (including Shaun) died except the killer :eek:, who got off scot-free (lol pun). Hence I've played through the last 1/5 of it three times now and got a few different endings. The 1st one was probably one of the worst possible, while the 3rd probably one of the best. I just can't keep Norman around yet... :(

1st: Norman killed by Crazy Jack at the tip. Lauren drowned in the car. Ethan arrested at the motel and thus not able to save Shaun. Madison escaped the burning apartment and got to see Shaun where he is trapped. Before she can save him though Scott comes and chases her up the crane, where she fell and died. Shaun drowns in the pit. Ethan widely reported as the Origami Killer in the press and seeming to believe it himself he hangs himself in prison before he can get to trial. Last shot is Scott walking down the street, a free and presumably innocent man (thought the player knows).

3rd: Everyone survived except Norman and Scott. Lauren was saved from the car. She later went away and was not seen again until the epilogue. Norman died in his office while looking for final clues. Madison escaped the burning apartment and met up with Ethan just as he saved Shaun. Scott then turned up and shot Ethan. He then chased Madison up the crane but just as he was about to push her off Ethan shows up and shoots him dead. The epilogue had Ethan reported innocent in the media and as I couldn't be bothered with the Madison love scene this time she was shown flogging her tell-all book on the Origami Killer. Ethan and Shaun moved into an apartment alone. Last scene had Lauren spitting on Scott's grave.

The scene where Norman dies I've played maybe 6 times now and I just can't seem to get him past it. It's like there's some missing piece of evidence from an earlier scene which I've missed... :(

[borgster101]

The first time I played through everyone (including Shaun) died except the killer :eek:, who got off scot-free (lol pun). Hence I've played through the last 1/5 of it three times now and got a few different endings. The 1st one was probably one of the worst possible, while the 3rd probably one of the best. I just can't keep Norman around yet... :(

1st: Norman killed by Crazy Jack at the tip. Lauren drowned in the car. Ethan arrested at the motel and thus not able to save Shaun. Madison escaped the burning apartment and got to see Shaun where he is trapped. Before she can save him though Scott comes and chases her up the crane, where she fell and died. Shaun drowns in the pit. Ethan widely reported as the Origami Killer in the press and seeming to believe it himself he hangs himself in prison before he can get to trial. Last shot is Scott walking down the street, a free and presumably innocent man (thought the player knows).

3rd: Everyone survived except Norman and Scott. Lauren was saved from the car. She later went away and was not seen again until the epilogue. Norman died in his office while looking for final clues. Madison escaped the burning apartment and met up with Ethan just as he saved Shaun. Scott then turned up and shot Ethan. He then chased Madison up the crane but just as he was about to push her off Ethan shows up and shoots him dead. The epilogue had Ethan reported innocent in the media and as I couldn't be bothered with the Madison love scene this time she was shown flogging her tell-all book on the Origami Killer. Ethan and Shaun moved into an apartment alone. Last scene had Lauren spitting on Scott's grave.

The scene where Norman dies I've played maybe 6 times now and I just can't seem to get him past it. It's like there's some missing piece of evidence from an earlier scene which I've missed... :(

Damn .. that first ending is probably the worst one! Regarding keeping Norman alive, sounds like you're missing a key piece of evidence, as when you have enough it's fairly easy to figure out who the killer is. What pieces of evidence do you have?

[ElPresidente]

I see where you're coming from though. I mentioned examples where there are some clues earlier in the game that Shelby is the killer, but you're right in that you can only see them after you finish it a first time. Still .. is that a bad thing?

If it runs counter to how every thing is presented in the game, yes. It undermines the structure of the narrative.

I didn't want to figure out the killer's identity early either and it is for this reason had the murderer been Ethan or the lieutenant or any of the other 'suspects' that would have been fine. It was the fact that we were given nothing other than post event justifications (oh... when the camera switched to the clock Shelby smacked the dude with a typewriter... thought we should mentiond :P) that suggested this was Shelby's deal.

That said, I do want to say again how much I loved his motivations. Never understood the complaints that the motivations aren't made clear. There's a whole freaking gameplay sequence about the damned motivation!! :P

Damn .. that first ending is probably the worst one! Regarding keeping Norman alive, sounds like you're missing a key piece of evidence, as when you have enough it's fairly easy to figure out who the killer is. What pieces of evidence do you have?


I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say he missed the gold watch in the video from Paco's. You need to see that to suspect a cop is involved.

[borgster101]

If it runs counter to how every thing is presented in the game, yes. It undermines the structure of the narrative.

I didn't want to figure out the killer's identity early either and it is for this reason had the murderer been Ethan or the lieutenant or any of the other 'suspects' that would have been fine. It was the fact that we were given nothing other than post event justifications (oh... when the camera switched to the clock Shelby smacked the dude with a typewriter... thought we should mentiond :P) that suggested this was Shelby's deal.
Well the story is presented from the perspective of the 4 main characters ... there was no clues that it was Shelby during the game because Shelby was very busy keeping that a secret :p

But yeah I understand your perspective ... for me the hardest part to believe was how Shelby managed to kill the antique store guy, but then the scene where it focuses in on Lauren looking at the music box ... at the time you think this is important to wipe off the prints but it can be enough time for Shelby to do what he needed to.


That said, I do want to say again how much I loved his motivations. Never understood the complaints that the motivations aren't made clear. There's a whole freaking gameplay sequence about the damned motivation!! :P
Damn straight, it was done very well and linked perfectly to how the murders were actually conducted. When the game switches to the playable scene with little Scott .. I'm like "oh shit this is it, I'm playing as the Orgami killer right now .. what the ***** happened here".

[Tukenstein]

It either doesn't exist or it flew way over my head, but are Ethan's blackouts explained? I assumed it was because of a mixture of psychological trauma and seeing newspaper articles on the Origami Killer that kept dragging him to Carnaby Street, but after a second playthrough I was reminded of the origami pieces he somehow keeps getting his hands on. So, unless he started taking up sleep folding, I'm stuck with the idea that Shelby was somehow involved in his blackouts.

WHAT'S GOING ON?!

[StorminNorman]

Well the story is presented from the perspective of the 4 main characters ... there was no clues that it was Shelby during the game because Shelby was very busy keeping that a secret :p

If you watch a lot of crime drama, or read a lot of crime novels (and I'm guessing Prez is at least as much a fan of Silent Witness and whatnot as I am :p), then you'll be familiar with the tropes that these shows use to set up the reveal of the killer.

The trick is to provide just enough information for people to not so much figure it out before the reveal, but to be able to say, when the reveal happens, "Of course! I see how it all fits together now!". This game doesn't do that. In this game, you only get those clues after the reveal, as though the game is now going back and justifying its choice to you.

That's why it feels like a completely arbitrary, unsatisfying reveal. I genuinely expected the killer to be someone that the game hadn't shown me yet. That said, I also thought the game was about twice as long as it turned out to be. The scene with Scott burning the evidence seemed, to me, to be the halfway "darkest hour" moment of the crime story, not the beginning of the final denouement.

My other problem (and I don't know if Prez felt this) is that Scott completely fails to fit any kind of serial killer profile. Serial killers are always genuinely tormented people who struggle to fit in with society. They wouldn't pass the kind of tests needed to either be a cop or a detective. Either Scott was incredibly good at hiding his inner torment (highly unlikely), or the game's writer simply doesn't understand how to write a serial killer character.

(Obviously there may be exceptions to the serial killer rule there, but we're talking about fiction here, and genre convention dictates that serial killers should be shown to be suffering internal torment, which the one in this game is never shown to be doing. Also, the catalyst for his path to darkness is really, really pissweak.)

[Natrak]

I definitely think it's a fair criticism to make of the story that it didn't feed enough suspicion for Shelby when compared to the obvious red herrings in Mars, Blake and Gordi. It certainly could have been handled better, but I never found it to be any kind of let down. For what its worth Shelby and Blake were the two I suspected most. *shrugs*

[ElPresidente]

(Obviously there may be exceptions to the serial killer rule there, but we're talking about fiction here, and genre convention dictates that serial killers should be shown to be suffering internal torment, which the one in this game is never shown to be doing. Also, the catalyst for his path to darkness is really, really pissweak.)

I agree with you on this point as well.

Although I do feel the catalyst is fantastic... it simply doesn't reflect in the character until his dark purpose is known by the player.

[Tonez]

My other problem (and I don't know if Prez felt this) is that Scott completely fails to fit any kind of serial killer profile. Serial killers are always genuinely tormented people who struggle to fit in with society. They wouldn't pass the kind of tests needed to either be a cop or a detective. Either Scott was incredibly good at hiding his inner torment (highly unlikely), or the game's writer simply doesn't understand how to write a serial killer character.

Ted Bundy.

That is all.

[igotnewsuper8systemWRONG!]

Is the second flashback (where we learn the identity of the killer) I crack up everytime because I'm about 99% sure that Shelbys drunk father is Sully from Uncharted.

[Almighty Beanchild]

I love that for the sex scene between Ethan and Madison, two people in black suits with little balls all over them had to do that.

[Cobla]

I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say he missed the gold watch in the video from Paco's. You need to see that to suspect a cop is involved.Actually I got the gold watch clue but that was the only clue from "Fishtank" that Norman bothered remembering it seems. Even though he found Madison's fingerprints everywhere he never bothers chasing her up. Hence the only outcomes I've managed in that last ARI scene is 1) using ARI too long and dying or 2) accusing Bates of being the killer, which leads to a different epilogue for Norman, showing him leaving the FBI

Anyway on another matter entirely. Plot holes!

Can anyone explain to me which of the victims Gordi killed? I initially thought it was Lauren's kid but that just doesn't add up. Certainly Gordi's dad says "he was just a street kid, no one would miss him" to which Scott gets pissed off with him, so that makes me think the player should know which kid they're talking about. (??) And would it be true to say that Scott was chasing Gordi so vehemently because he didn't like the idea of a copycat? If so then why don't the police or anyone else investigating the case have any idea there's a copycat?? I mean the circumstances surrounding the disappearances and subsequent father-tormenting are pretty unique. Seems to me that the copycat would have got at least one detail wrong.

And the other plot hole that's pissing me off is the one Tuki mentioned. Seriously, what is the deal with Ethan's origami figures and continually waking up in Carnaby St? Is he having some kind of psychic episode, and if so wouldn't that preclude going off to do it at the exact moment Shaun is kidnapped?

Oh and finally, I actually like the plot twist and who the killer turns out to be. It feels like a good fit to me, and I would have been really pissed off if it had turned out to be Ethan. Way too obvious.

[Tonez]

Actually I got the gold watch clue but that was the only clue from "Fishtank" that Norman bothered remembering it seems. Even though he found Madison's fingerprints everywhere he never bothers chasing her up. Hence the only outcomes I've managed in that last ARI scene is 1) using ARI too long and dying or 2) accusing Bates of being the killer, which leads to a different epilogue for Norman, showing him leaving the FBI

Anyway on another matter entirely. Plot holes!

Can anyone explain to me which of the victims Gordi killed? I initially thought it was Lauren's kid but that just doesn't add up. Certainly Gordi's dad says "he was just a street kid, no one would miss him" to which Scott gets pissed off with him, so that makes me think the player should know which kid they're talking about. (??) And would it be true to say that Scott was chasing Gordi so vehemently because he didn't like the idea of a copycat? If so then why don't the police or anyone else investigating the case have any idea there's a copycat?? I mean the circumstances surrounding the disappearances and subsequent father-tormenting are pretty unique. Seems to me that the copycat would have got at least one detail wrong.

And the other plot hole that's pissing me off is the one Tuki mentioned. Seriously, what is the deal with Ethan's origami figures and continually waking up in Carnaby St? Is he having some kind of psychic episode, and if so wouldn't that preclude going off to do it at the exact moment Shaun is kidnapped?

Oh and finally, I actually like the plot twist and who the killer turns out to be. It feels like a good fit to me, and I would have been really pissed off if it had turned out to be Ethan. Way too obvious.

I'm pretty sure they said that Gordi's father paid off the cops to let his son go.

I don't think anyone here disliked the plot twist in that Shelby was the killer. I think the main complaint, which I actually agree with, is that there wasn't enough clues to point to Shelby as the killer.

When there is a really good plot twist in a movie, you want to be able to watch that movie again and realise you were silly for thnking it could end in anyway. Examples of this, Fight Club or Sixth Sense. When those films flashback, you realise the clues they were leaving.

There was nothing (and I've now played it through twice) to suggest Shelby was ever the killer other then scenes they show at the end, which as ElPrez pointed out, were scenes we were never a part of. Either way I still loved this game.

My first ending was the same as yours Cobla. Norman died with Mad Jack, Ethan got caught and Madison escaped the burning building but with no information about Shaun.

Therefore in the first ending, Ethan hangs himself, Blake finds Norman's ARI glasses and looks like he will start using it and Madison is actually shown in her apartment in the foetal position on her couch, cowering as her hallucinations of masked men are running around her house and eventually surrounding her.

Second playthrough was the 4 heroes, good ending. Anyone want to explain the ending where Norman is surrounded by tanks from ARI even though he'd taken his glasses off? I'm assuming it meant, he'd used ARI so much that the virtual reality was now coming into his real life.

[igotnewsuper8systemWRONG!]

When there is a really good plot twist in a movie, you want to be able to watch that movie again and realise you were silly for thnking it could end in anyway. Examples of this, Fight Club or Sixth Sense. When those films flashback, you realise the clues they were leaving.

I don't really think that's a fair comparison to make. To begin with these are probably the two best examples of a plot twist in movie history, but that aside, the twist in them is something completely unexpected and out of the blue. Bruce Willis being dead and Tyler Durtin not existing are not plot points you saw coming, someone being the killer in Heavy Rain... was bound to happen.

Edit: Not to say the point isn't valid

[Tonez]

I don't really think that's a fair comparison to make. To begin with these are probably the two best examples of a plot twist in movie history, but that aside, the twist in them is something completely unexpected and out of the blue. Bruce Willis being dead and Tyler Durtin not existing are not plot points you saw coming, someone being the killer in Heavy Rain... was bound to happen.

You're missing the point though. The point is when you rewatch those movies, you can see all the clues laid out from the beginning.

Any good crime drama, will feed you clues to the suspect from beginning to end so even if you don't know the identity of the killer until they reveal it, you can understand it once it's revealed.

Heavy Rain showed us scenes that we never initially saw and as ElPres said, it just made it a little cheap. I think the reason I'm complaining is because of how much I enjoyed the game. I just could not put it down. I got attached to the characters and the story. It's not a major complaint and it won't stop me from playing again or recommending this game to people.

One other thing that didn't gel with me (and this is really nitpicking) was that the "Origami Killer" you fight in Paco's office in Blue Lagoon didn't seem to be overweight at all. How did Shelby hide that gut?

Anyway, did anyone get the limited edition? I played the bonus chronicle last night and it is fantastic. I really hope Quantic Dreams create some more of these.

[StorminNorman]

Ted Bundy.

That is all.

Obviously there may be exceptions to the serial killer rule there, but we're talking about fiction here

So yeah.

[Tonez]

I know we're talking about fiction. The point is there have been quite a few serial killers in history who were not socially awkward and were able to hide any inner torment they held.

I agreed with most of your points but you were implying that the writer doesn't understand how to write a serial killer character. The fact that there have been serial killers who can do what Shelby did easily means you are probably wrong.

You basically wanted them to stick to convention. I liked that Shelby was the killer, I just didn't like the implementation of it.

[Almighty Beanchild]

So yeah.

So yeah, you think people shouldn't write outside of tropes and conventions.

[Cobla]

Conventionality in mystery stories sucks. Personally I was very glad to find I hadn't guessed who the killer was as I can't even watch crime shows on TV any more. Pretty much all of them broadcast who the killer is in the first 15 minutes, so weighed down are they in murder-mystery convention that it just becomes obvious.

[ElPresidente]

Like it or not it was a Deus Ex Machina moment which is weak story telling (not just against convention but weak).

Oh and Bundy had lots of problems that others knew about such as his depression. Yes, he presented well but he was not without problems that were noted by others prior to his incarceration and execution.

[Tonez]

Like it or not it was a Deus Ex Machina moment which is weak story telling (not just against convention but weak).

Oh and Bundy had lots of problems that others knew about such as his depression. Yes, he presented well but he was not without problems that were noted by others prior to his incarceration and execution.

I have no idea what a deux ex machinma moment means but as I said in my earlier post, I didn't like the way Shelby was setup as the killer. I thought in hindsight he had great motivation and I bought that, I just didn't like the fact that they didn't make it fit till the end.

Yeah he suffered from depression but so has 1/2 of the men in the world (Made up statistic but there are a lot). Stormin seemed to find it hard to believe that Shleby could function the way he did.

Bundy not only volunteered at a suicide hot line but was also a member of the young republicans. People found him charming and personable in college. He frunctioned perfectly well in society despite his depression.

I suffered from depression at one stage but no one would ever have confused me for a serial killer....or would they?

[Sweating Bullets]

So worthwhile buying this game or just rent it?

[Almighty Beanchild]

Like it or not it was a Deus Ex Machina moment which is weak story telling (not just against convention but weak).

Oh and Bundy had lots of problems that others knew about such as his depression. Yes, he presented well but he was not without problems that were noted by others prior to his incarceration and execution.

No, I know that. TBH I wasn't a fan of the identity of the killer either, but that doesn't mean the "it doesn't fit established crime drama conventions" argument is at ALL a good argument.

[Cobla]

So worthwhile buying this game or just rent it?If you've been reading this thread and already know the identity of the killer I'd probably say rent it. They call 'em spoilers for a reason. ;)

[Tonez]

So worthwhile buying this game or just rent it?

Personally, I'd buy it. I loved it.

Also when they say multiple endings, they actually mean it.

[Cobla]

Yeah it has way more replay value than Fahrenheit, no doubt about it. I'm also very glad I bought it and I won't be trading it in.

[Tonez]

Did you get the DLC with the taxidermist?

It's ****ing good.

[Cobla]

Nah, I just I'll have to pay retail for it. I don't really bother with collector's editions any more... I think the sub par ones from Halo 3 and Gears turned me off, unfortunately.

[McChimp]

This is the ending I got.

Ethan found Shaun .. and saved him, Scott turns up is about to shoot him, then Norman comes to save the day! Norman and Scott battle it out on top of a crane in the rain of course ... Scott slips, and Norman reaches in to lift him up, but Scott the bastard continues to fight, hence Norman finishes him off and Scott falls down into a compactor squashed to his death.

Ethan and Madison move into an apartment with Shaun, and Norman is known as the hero who captured the Orgami killer, he also gives up on his drug addiction.

Probably the best ending, except for somehow getting Scott to survive .. this is why I reached out to save him, but then when Scott still started throwing punches, he ended up getting killed anyway ... bah!

Oh and Lauren died in the car in the ocean, I was moving too quickly and didn't save her.

I got this exact same ending, and when it came out that Shelby was the Origami Killer I was like ".......seriously....?". Confused the s**t outta me, but reading over other opinions, it KIND'VE makes sense (the whole 'follow the trail, make sure it doesn't lead to him' bizzo). That said, I felt a bit stiffed with the reveal.......I really wished it'd been someone else, or that Shelby's part of the story wasn't one big red-herring.

[Natrak]

Did you get the DLC with the taxidermist?

It's ****ing good.

I like the mood and the little tale itself, but I found the controls even worse than normal.

[Tonez]

I like the mood and the little tale itself, but I found the controls even worse than normal.

Yeah you could be right but I was so taken by the mini story itself that I hardly noticed.

Seriously,

the freaky mannequins who ended up being actual people who had been stuffed, was a massive WTF moment.

I'm really looking forward to seeing other episodes. Also, based on what I saw at the end, it seems there are 5 different ways that little story can end itself.

[igotnewsuper8systemWRONG!]

So worthwhile buying this game or just rent it?

Depends, if you just want to give it one playthrough then hire it, though after finishing the game I've enjoyed going back and seeing how different scenes play out so there's definitely a whole lot of replay value if you're into that sort of thing.

How long is the Taxidermist dlc?

[borgster101]

If you watch a lot of crime drama, or read a lot of crime novels (and I'm guessing Prez is at least as much a fan of Silent Witness and whatnot as I am :p), then you'll be familiar with the tropes that these shows use to set up the reveal of the killer.

The trick is to provide just enough information for people to not so much figure it out before the reveal, but to be able to say, when the reveal happens, "Of course! I see how it all fits together now!". This game doesn't do that. In this game, you only get those clues after the reveal, as though the game is now going back and justifying its choice to you.

That's why it feels like a completely arbitrary, unsatisfying reveal. I genuinely expected the killer to be someone that the game hadn't shown me yet. That said, I also thought the game was about twice as long as it turned out to be. The scene with Scott burning the evidence seemed, to me, to be the halfway "darkest hour" moment of the crime story, not the beginning of the final denouement.

My other problem (and I don't know if Prez felt this) is that Scott completely fails to fit any kind of serial killer profile. Serial killers are always genuinely tormented people who struggle to fit in with society. They wouldn't pass the kind of tests needed to either be a cop or a detective. Either Scott was incredibly good at hiding his inner torment (highly unlikely), or the game's writer simply doesn't understand how to write a serial killer character.

(Obviously there may be exceptions to the serial killer rule there, but we're talking about fiction here, and genre convention dictates that serial killers should be shown to be suffering internal torment, which the one in this game is never shown to be doing. Also, the catalyst for his path to darkness is really, really pissweak.)

Yeah fair enough, for me (and like others have said) it didn't hurt the experience so much, I don't read enough crime novels for it to be an issue for me personally, but I understand your point.

And I'd agree with Tonez in that you don't have to have a serial killer that sticks to the norm.


I haven't played the additional episode yet .. I was waiting for after March 4, since apparantly you can't download the soundtrack at the moment with the special edition redeem code.

[StorminNorman]

And I'd agree with Tonez in that you don't have to have a serial killer that sticks to the norm.

Yeah, and that's perfectly fine.

However...

If you're going to challenge genre convention, then you better damn well understand why genre convention exists in the first place. It exists because it works. Many, many writers have built successful careers based on the simple formulas and conventions present in genre fiction. A reader, when buying a genre novel, is buying it because they know what to expect. If I walk into the crime section of a book shop and I buy a book by Elmore Leonard or P.D. James or Ruth Rendell or whoever, I am doing this because they are giving me something I want to buy. It is something I like. Their books stick to the formula, and they understand the formula.

And when those writers challenge the formula, it is a huge risk on their part. If they succeed, then I'm happy, because I've just had my preconceived notions of the genre challenged and expanded. If they fail, then I feel let down. The author tried something that didn't work, and I am disappointed.

The problem with Heavy Rain isn't that it challenges genre convention, it's that it doesn't even understand genre convention. It does a number of things thinking that it's being fresh and "edgy", but it fails because none of those things work. In the end, Scott Shelby is revealed to be a giant deus ex machina because the writers of the game simply don't understand genre convention.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I could totally write a better crime story than the one presented in Heavy Rain. I could pull it off in such a way that revealing the serial killer would make the reader slap themselves on the forehead and say "of course! It all makes sense now!". If I wrote heavy Rain, you'd believe who the serial killer was, no matter which character I told you it was.

I can do this, because I understand genre convention.

(And no, that's not my ego talking: I'm a writer by trade.)

[igotnewsuper8systemWRONG!]

Can I get a link to where I can purchase one of your crime novels?

[Natrak]

StorminNorman's Heavy/Rain

[StorminNorman]

Can I get a link to where I can purchase one of your crime novels?

As soon as I get one of them published, sure. :p

(Actually I don't generally write crime, I prefer genre sci-fi, but there's definitely crime elements to what I write.)

Right now I'm actually writing some crazy steampunk fantasy thing. The main character's a princess. It's awesome.

[Cerebral]

Right now I'm actually writing some crazy steampunk fantasy thing. The main character's a princess. It's awesome.

Not sure if serious.

[ElPresidente]

Despite our criticisms of the reveal Stormin, would you conceed that Cage has a good eye for what makes us feel for characters?

The Shelby reveal would not have pissed me off so much had I not become so invested in the story and it's characters.

[Tonez]

As soon as I get one of them published, sure. :p

(Actually I don't generally write crime, I prefer genre sci-fi, but there's definitely crime elements to what I write.)

Right now I'm actually writing some crazy steampunk fantasy thing. The main character's a princess. It's awesome.

If this princess doesn't need to be rescued from a castle, then you are not sticking with genre convention and I'm not buying it.

[igotnewsuper8systemWRONG!]

Just had sex with Miranda Kerr and Jennifer Hawkins and cured cancer, it's a good thing I can claim whatever I want on the internet and people have to believe me.

[StorminNorman]

Not sure if serious.

Totally serious!

Despite our criticisms of the reveal Stormin, would you conceed that Cage has a good eye for what makes us feel for characters?

The Shelby reveal would not have pissed me off so much had I not become so invested in the story and it's characters.

I kind of want to agree with you, but I can't even remember the name of one of the characters because I just kept thinking of him as "Agent Cooper from Twin Peaks". I guess that means the characters didn't have a lot of impact on me. I kind of liked Scott because he had the whole asthma thing, but everyone else was pretty much cut-and-paste archetypes (the intrepid reporter, the unsympathetic father, the whore etc etc).

They were there to service the plot, and they most did that well enough. I didn't find them especially memorable, though.

If this princess doesn't need to be rescued from a castle, then you are not sticking with genre convention and I'm not buying it.

Actually I'm being edgy and avante garde by having the princess do the rescuing. It's totally a genre-busting novel! Look forward to it! :p

[igotnewsuper8systemWRONG!]

I kind of want to agree with you, but I can't even remember the name of one of the characters because I just kept thinking of him as "Agent Cooper from Twin Peaks".

The whole time I was playing I kind of wished they went all out in making this guy more like Agent Cooper, even though it would be out of step with the tone set by the rest of the game.

[cube_punk]

I was so shocked and sad with my ending. I realized that Scott was the killer while Norman was using the ARI, and the realization crushed me. Shelby was my favourite character. :(

So I stuffed something up with the ARI and norman gave up before it killed him. He said he couldn't do it anymore as he was bleeding out the eye. Ethan worked out the location of the killer (after sparing the dealer and not drinking the vial) and then Madison learnt it at Shelby's apartment. So I got her to call Norman to get him down there too.

Ethan finds Shaun, Scott pulls the gun on him. Norman comes in for the save and fights him up the ramp, eventually having Scott getting crushed. Ethan revives Shaun as Madison arrives. The cops don't listen to her, and here's where my ending goes sour. As she jumps on the bike I miss both cues to hit the gas, and she gets arrested. Ethan busts open the door and cops about 15 bullets to the chest.

No mention of Shelby being the killer on the news. Madison writes her book, norman goes on talk show, sees tanks and flushes his drugs. Shaun cries on Ethans grave as madison watches on.


I was so crushed to see Ethan die. After everything I did to keep them all alive. Got the cruel " so close" trophy too. If only Madison had have made it to Ethan... :(

[adam_91vn]

Finished it, loved it. Sounds like my ending was different from everyone elses.

Ethan finds shaun, saves him. Then maddison rocks up. Scott then rocks up shoots ethan in the guts goes after maddision, she climbs up a crane, ethan ends up shooting him.

Ethan, maddison and shaun end up in a new place.

Norman quits the fbi.

[ElPresidente]

www.akimbopodcast.com

For those interested, myself and some PCPP guys dissect Heavy Rain.

[jawsy]

Just finished it. Agree with the reveal of the killer (in that I was fine with it, but they had to deliberately **** with previous scenes to make it work), overall thought it was a fantastic experience, and was a bit bummed out with my (first) ending.

Ethan turns up to save the kid and it turns out that Scott is already waiting for him. Scott eventually pulls a gun on Ethan but at this point Norman enters the picture and crash tackles the big fella from behind. They head off after each other while Ethan busts out his son. Scott and Norman slug it out on a conveyor belt (or something) that finishes with Scott choking Norman out and then watching him tumble over the edge to his death. By this time Madison has arrived and she manages to evade the police and get to Ethan, who has just busted out the CPR. They wander outside together, no one gets an itchy trigger finger. New house, Norman dead, Scott wanted for murder but MIA. last seen wandering down a street in the rain.

Phew.

[/backslash]

Finally got Heavy Rain today! Feel like I've been waiting forever just to play it whilst everyone else has finished it or already sold it

Seems a bit silly how the CE is practically empty aside from a code to get the DLC - why couldn't they just put it on the disc?! Makes you wonder what you paid the extra money for (besides the cardboard packaging). Still, I did only have to pay $76 for it

edit:

Oh great, a 230mb patch is out :( I miss plugnplay

edit2

Halfway through downloading and it says "Error has occurred" & I have to start all over again! FFS Sony, get a decent download manager!

[borgster101]

www.akimbopodcast.com

For those interested, myself and some PCPP guys dissect Heavy Rain.

That was a good listen, some good discussion, man I loved this game! :D

Slashy, great to hear you got it man ... this is the spoiler thread though, I advise you keep away until you finish it :)

[/backslash]

Oh yeah, just noticed there's 2 threads. Thought it renamed itself

[Ashmaran]

Finished it, not really satisfied. Honestly I was convinced it was the psychiatrist based on the clues they dropped. Lame that you play as the killer and they conveniently leave things out to dupe you.

Norman (I swear his name was Armen) died due to Mad Jack for me, I was annoyed actually. They made me sit through several long QTE sequences that I pretty much aced and I didn't mash a button enough at one point and insta dead.

I failed on the electrical trial, didn't kill the guy and drank the vial, guessed the address due to seagulls and got it right. Madison worked out where it was, tried to ring Ethan but no answer. Ethan rescued Shaun and resuscitated, Madison arrives and then Shelby attacks her, Ethan shoots Shelby and he falls to his death.

Ethan receives public apology and hero status, hooks up with Madison and gets a place with Shaun. Shelby outed as Origami Killer, Lauren died in the car (lol I tried to wake her once and then tried the door and Shelby goes himself). How can he get angry at the old guy, he left her to die himself and he killed her son haha. Blake refused to go to Norman's funeral, put on the ari glasses and saw Norman (wtf?)

Overall the controls, camera angles and mechanics left me wanting. I didn't feel like I had enough agency over the characters and some of the things I did were because the game failed to do what I thought it would. Even at the end I was turning around in circles trying to navigate around simple objects (combination of the silly controls and static camera angles). Having those sequences where you do several motions and if one fails you start at the beginning are just silly. You don't repeat stuff that worked fine, only the things you stuffed up.

Despite the slow start I thought it promising, but by the end I was just over the button wrangling. Combined with the story selling me out, it left a bad taste. Still not as bad as Fahrenheit.

[Antwandemarco]

Finished this the other day and absolutely loved it. The reveal of the killer didn't bother me at all as i was expecting it to be out of the blue after reading impressions here. I actually liked that Scott ended up as the baddie, thought he was one of the best characters. Ended up getting the ending where everyone survives but had to retry a couple of scenes. Saved the prostitute in the sinking car, shot the dealer and drank the "poison".

Particularly liked the scene with the evil doctor and the scene with mad jack. I actually really liked the FBI agent's scenes, loved using ARI and enjoyed avoiding taking the drug. Not sure if i am going to go back and replays parts to see how they pan out. I guess i'll have to wait till i have a break in games to play.

Did anyone fail the scene in the clock shop and get taken in by the cops with Scott? Does that take him out of the game and get him busted when you do that?

[Tonez]

Did anyone fail the scene in the clock shop and get taken in by the cops with Scott? Does that take him out of the game and get him busted when you do that?

Nah it doesn't get him taken out.

Turns out Scott and the homocide detective (his name escapes me) know eachother.

He basically says to Shelby, let me pull a few strings and get you out of here quicker and than says make sure if you find anything you let me know, we're on the same team etc.

[Cobla]

Yeah and Shelby's like "...sure" in a way that obviously means "I'm not gonna tell you".

Still I wonder, there must be some kind of story ramification for failing / passing this test. Like if you clean all the spots (I missed one and haven't replayed the scene yet) is there an extra scene with Lauren and Shelby?

There should be I think. After all he does say something like "we can't afford to lose time down at the cop station" which makes me think they must do something extra if you don't mess up (?)

[ElPresidente]

I was positive I got them all but didn't clean the murder weapon because.. well I didn't know I'd touched it. :P

So I ended up at the cop shop.

[Tonez]

Yeah and Shelby's like "...sure" in a way that obviously means "I'm not gonna tell you".

Still I wonder, there must be some kind of story ramification for failing / passing this test. Like if you clean all the spots (I missed one and haven't replayed the scene yet) is there an extra scene with Lauren and Shelby?

There should be I think. After all he does say something like "we can't afford to lose time down at the cop station" which makes me think they must do something extra if you don't mess up (?)

I've replayed it so if you want to know what happens, I can tell you.

There is a further scene if you clean everything. Basically, you and Lauren are driving and Shelby tries to convince her to quit at which stage she tries to pull the car to a halt and she storms out of the car and sulks in the rain waiting for you to approach her.

Can't remember if this happens regardless, after you leave the police station.

[adam_91vn]

I was positive I got them all but didn't clean the murder weapon because.. well I didn't know I'd touched it. :P

So I ended up at the cop shop.

In the cut scene though it shows shelby cleaning it himself

[ElPresidente]

Ahhh, I acutally must have missed one then. :P

[Tonez]

Ahhh, I acutally must have missed one then. :P

You have to clean the window at the back, the phone that Shelby answered in the front room, the whiskey glass and the magnifying glass.

Also if you went to the toilet, you have to clean the toilet door and the actual flush on the toilet.

You also have to clean the phone in the back room that Lauren picked up to call the cops as well as the ballerina in a box she picks up.

Finally you have to clean the front door as you are leaving. I think that's it.

[Antwandemarco]

I loved the sequence when you first work out that the killer is shelby and you have to burn the evidence.

Oh and i royally ****ed up tying the police chief's tie. Did anyone get that right?

If i do play through again i certainly wont be restarting any scenes but i also wont be aiming to fail any(cept maybe that fingerprint bit).

[jawsy]

Oh and i royally ****ed up tying the police chief's tie. Did anyone get that right?

I paused the game, consulted with howtotieatie.net and then came back and aced it.

[Antwandemarco]

I paused the game, consulted with howtotieatie.net and then came back and aced it.

Kudos, i can't say i don't envy you.

[T Strife]

Eight pages of posts, and not one comment about how freaking creepy the news presented looked?

I found it cute that I got a trophy for keeping everyone alive, even though two of the four were dead by the time the end credits rolled.

[Antwandemarco]

Which two and how? They all survived at the end of mine...

[T Strife]

I got Norman killed by Shelby by missing what may have been the very last QTE prompt in the game. Poor SoB fell into a grinder.

Shelby was then shot by Lauren. This may have happened in the Epilogue, so I'm cheating with my comments here, but Norman was turned into man mulch!

[Antwandemarco]

Naaaahman.

[Jickle]

Saved the kid, killed Shelby, Madison and Ethan hook up, Special Agent Dale Cooper leaves the FBI.

A few things bothered me about the narrative. First of all, Jason's death right at the start. Why the hell did he immediately leave the mall and cross the street when he got his balloon? Kid should have been old enough to know better.

Veering into more spoiler-ish territory, Madison seems shocked when she discovers Scott Shelby - but at that point in my game, she had never met him. Apparently they meet in the DLC, but that's still really sloppy. Furthermore, she gets the option of calling the FBI agent after escaping Scott's apartment - but again, she never damn well met the guy.

Has anyone else seen this article (http://www.gamesradar.com/f/heavy-rains-big-plot-holes/a-20100224105436979020) about some of the game's bigger plot holes and examples of bad writing? I really enjoyed Heavy Rain conceptually, and found it stupidly compelling (I actually finished it within a single day) but Quantic Dreams' games always make me wish that a better writer/game designer would come along and rip them off.

[/backslash]

Saved the kid, killed Shelby, Madison and Ethan hook up, Special Agent Dale Cooper leaves the FBI.
Thought that said "Sawed the kid" for a sec, not sure why :p And when you say killed Shelby do you mean you didn't try to help him up when he slipped over the first time?

Why the hell did he immediately leave the mall and cross the street when he got his balloon? Kid should have been old enough to know better.
Yeah, that doesn't make much sense, unless it was an evil clown (he did seem evil to me) who gave him a balloon which had a mind control device inside it to make him do stupid things <_<

Veering into more spoiler-ish territory, Madison seems shocked when she discovers Scott Shelby - but at that point in my game, she had never met him
Yeah, that doesn't make much sense for the viewer watching. Perhaps the subject matter was too hard for the writers but even then she could've at least mentioned she knew them at some point

There's a few plot holes like most games but its not until other ppl start talking about it that I start to notice

[Jickle]

And when you say killed Shelby do you mean you didn't try to help him up when he slipped over the first time?

Ethan shot him - my FBI dude was off moping somewhere about his inability to solve the case.

And I agree that a lot of otherwise good plots are littered with little holes, but the holes here are actually quite enormous.

[the_tic_begins]

Great game, unlocked all endings, but im torn on if i should keep or sell, ive got no real intention of playing the main game again but the offer of downloadable content makes me want to keep it, even considering the taxidermist ep lasts around 10 mins and is a tech demo.

Btw, anyone else have trouble with the kamikaze trophy,i swear my game is glitched, ive done it perfectly so many times its beyond a joke,

[Smeaton]

I just finished the game and it didnt exactly turn out how I'd like:

Kid Dies, Lauren drowns, Ethan commits suicide, Madison dies in a fire, Norman dies of a coke overdose, and scott shelby LIVES. Then, for the icing on the cake, the playstation gives me the achievement of "hero" as if its mocking me....WORST POSSIBLE ENDING.

[Mr.Mew]

I found this game to be amazing... at its highest points. There's SOoooo much to be desired, but it'd be stupid to imagine a studio would get everything right the first time around (Or second. I like to forget about Farenheit.).

When I'd first read up on HR my first impression of the very opening of the story was: Jason had been kidnapped by the Origami Killer (and died via drowning), rather than smashed in the face with a car, which made the origami toss up with Shaun so much more meaningful. It seemed inconsistent the way that it was.

The way the endings work is also a little hinkey, didn't feel climactic; everything was broken up by loading face screens (and I'm assuming Jeyden doesn't see battle tanks on his desk if you use ARI less frequently in the game). Plus the credits to boot, "You've just saved the day, but lets keep the Origami Killer theme going to make the mood shit" rather than the mellow piano/string theme to signify a moderately happy ending.

Dialogue was also relaively unrealistic in communication, albeit it worked for me it just seemed cardboard cutout-esque with Ethan saying:

"Hey Shaun! Want snack?"
"I guess"
*Cutout shakes across the screen, snack appears in hand, waddles back*
"Here it is!"

There's no colloquial language to make it sound authentic. Granted that's not all the time obviously, I'm probably just being picky. Shelby and Jeyden's dialogue was always spot on in my opinion. In the end I was surprised as to how attached I was to each of the characters; sure Mass Effect had the same... effect, as mustiple other games, but with Heavy Rain every harrowing situation a character was in was heart breaking.
Madison nearly being cuttup by the doc.
Jeyden almost being crushed (Plus having withdrawal right when he has Mad Jack at gunpoint. It's was just "Oh no, not now!" for me.)
Ethan drinking the poison.

I love Heavy Rain for what it is, the only reason I'll put up with all the nuances is because of how much potential it's shown.

Hokay I shuttap now.

[sheeps]

I paused the game, consulted with howtotieatie.net and then came back and aced it.

What? I don't remember there being a way to **** it up. Maybe I had it on an easier difficulty setting, or maybe I just did it properly because I know how to tie ties, but I don't remember it being a thing you could possibly fail unless you just didn't press the right prompts.

The easier setting might explain why I got such a good ending with everyone living and such.

[sheeps]

Also the whole ineffective poison thing and how long it takes Shaun to come round, shat me.

[Manny M]

I've finally gotten around to playing Heavy Rain and while not without its many flaws it was one hell of a compelling game.

The story unfolded brilliantly and created a dark and interesting tone. I can honestly say it's one of the darkest games i've ever played. Some of the scenes were a little disturbing.

As for the 'twist' in the plot, initially upon discovering the killer I was pretty pissed off for the main reason that I just did not see it coming. Not because I was too daft to miss a clue... but because there were none (ok, I lie, there was one in that you never see Scott talk to Shaun's parents, so from the start I was a little confused as to why he was looking for Shaun but with no scene to show the request). It was even so 'cheap' to add in a part of the plot that you never even saw whilst controlling Scott. I was pretty pissed when I saw that. Understanding the motive as the story unfolded did ease my anger a little, but I do agree with those in the thread who have had an issue with the killer based on the fact that there was no suspicion of him and no clues to give it away. Cheapened the whole experience. Also, there was no explanation of Ethan's blackouts and how he got hold of an origami piece... so again another cheap addition to the plot to add suspicion where it shouldn't have been directed.

So as an overall 'game', I did really enjoy it. The story as a whole was pretty impressive and compelled you to push forward to the next chapter. What the game could've really benefited from was some believable character modelling. Sure, they looked great, but the animations were WAY off. Having just played Enslaved and seen what good facial animation can do, it was a damn shame they missed the mark here... because if any game needed it, this was it. Voice acting as a whole was good, but when it was bad I found it horrible.

As far as 'games' go, I don't really know if I can classify this a game. More of an interactive movie really (though I had expected as much). Some of the quicktime events were fantastic and heightened the urgency and drama of a scene like only a game can, but too often did I feel I was carrying out needless tasks just for the sake of it. There were also times where the movements wouldn't register well and i'd fail a scene because of it (damn Ethan's breathing scene to hell where he cuts his finger off).

I'm actually amazed at how many different arcs there were in the story. Had I not read some of this thread I wouldn't have even known that you could've died early on using Jayden, or that there are so many possible endings. In a way I felt disappointed that I didn't discover them myself, but on the other hand I became so invested in the characters that I didn't even want to see the 'worst outcome'. I was lucky enough to finish the game with the best possible ending on my first run, so reading that it could go completely pear shaped made me feel a little funny about wanting to experience it. I did go back to the last scene to fail the QTE events with Norman v Scott on the conveyor and I also failed Madison's attempt to save Ethan from the cops... and I felt horrible... guilty even when Jayden was knocked out and fell do his death in the grinder, and Ethan was shot. And that, at the end of the day, makes this a great piece of entertainment.

[borgster101]

Yeah I really enjoyed it, completely understand the issues people have with the twist, but when I look back on it as an experience it was compelling all the way through, and like you said very dark. Though dark in a mature adult way, i.e. a story about an ordinary man doing anything to save his son, and going to such extreme lengths.

When I think back about this game, it's the "journey" that I remember the most, the impossible choices you had to make, the urgency of the situation as each day passed by, these were executed very well. Makes me want to go and play it again actually :p

[Slippery]

I agree with Borg, in hindsight Heavy Rain has some problems, but at the time it was such an amazing game. I found it so incredibly intense, I wouldn't be shocked if I never had a similar gaming experience.

[Xanafalgue]

I thought it was alright before I got the worst possible ending.

Also shaking the DS3 side-to-side got old really quickly.

Other than that, it was fun. Wish it were longer though, I would love an episodic game like this (i.e. someone make Twin Peaks: The Game IMMEDIATELY).

[ElPresidente]

It's called Alan Wake. ;)

[Xanafalgue]

Nah, not enough Black Lodge!

[Manny M]

It's called Alan Wake. ;)

So Alan Wake gives that same sense of connection with characters and compelling plot?

I've been meaning to get around to it, but haven't had the chance.

[ElPresidente]

Alan Wake has a great and engaging plot but I was more making a gag about the Twin Peaks references in the game. There are... umm... a lot. :P

The Lamp Lady being the most blindingly obvious. :P

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100519180058/alanwake/images/thumb/8/8d/Logladyalanwake.jpg/180px-Logladyalanwake.jpg

It's a shooter first and foremost though so don't mistake my comment for suggesting it has similarities with Heavy Rain though.

I think the following fan made video clip gives a nice overview of the type of action you can expect from Alan Wake. It has a mild spoiler regarding the end but as any who have finished Alan Wake know that final scene shown in the clip really isn't the end - things are a little more complex than that. Anyway I also wanted to post it because it's an awesome clip. :P

Oh the song being sung is actually a song that exists in the game world and is used as a relatively significant plot device part way through the game.

Mn2MDy9FHGg

Nah, not enough Black Lodge!

True. :P

[sheeps]

Alan Wake is pretty terrible, even more uncanny valley than Heavy Rain.

[ElPresidente]

Pfft. I loved it.

True, the facial animations are pretty damned awful but the game was a heap of fun and a wonderfully intriguing story IMO.

Anyway, sorry for the brief Alan Wake derail.

[sheeps]

I just couldn't find it fun enough to keep playing. Run, shine light, start generator, shine light, pick up ammo, start generator. Meh. Where's the variety?

[Lex]

Alan Wake is pretty terrible, even more uncanny valley than Heavy Rain.

Except not really. The facial animations were dodgy in places on AW, but nothing on the creepiness of HR.

[Natrak]

Thoroughly disagree. Alice was scarier than anything else in that game.

[grimace06]

One thing that really pissed me off:

"I'm detective Naaaarman Jayden"

Such bad voice acting and accents. The prostitute's voice was horrible.

[sheeps]

Thoroughly disagree. Alice was scarier than anything else in that game.

This. Her lips didn't even move.

[Xanafalgue]

Alan Wake is pretty terrible, even more uncanny valley than Heavy Rain.

Just DREADFUL.