How could Xbox LIVE be improved upon?

[Xanafalgue]

.. in b4 "make it free" :rolleyes:

Just reading that Sony has a premium PSN service in the pipeline and although no details or pricing have been announced, I would assume it would be in line with the retail price of XBLA Gold, if not cheaper.

What services do you think could Microsoft implement into XBLA that would not only make it a better experience for you, but elevate it above the incoming competition?

I can only think of one thing that would help for me and that is fixing the disasterous MSN interface.

[fearofthesky]

XNA Creators Club in Australia!

[TrinityJayOne]

That'd be great, yes. I already think Live is great, so my only improvements would be to the Xbox UI itself. Firstly I'd make it a bit snappier, as the guide button menu is always sluggish. Second, I'd bring back the ability to view videos without having to wait 10sec for Zune to load. :\

[fishfishmonkeyhat]

And seriously, "Zune Videos"?

You want to shackle that dead weight around the UI?

Up next: Natal renamed "Courier".

[aubergine]

I don't think it needs to be free, but $40 for three months is bullshit. $60 per year, $20 per quarter, $10 per month.

[Second]

That'd be great, yes. I already think Live is great, so my only improvements would be to the Xbox UI itself. Firstly I'd make it a bit snappier, as the guide button menu is always sluggish. Second, I'd bring back the ability to view videos without having to wait 10sec for Zune to load. :\

Second on the Zune. I used to download a lot of vids via the marketplace and now I just can't be bothered.

[Natrak]

Xbox Live Indie games tia. I'm pretty happy with the service, but perhaps a rewards system would be nice. And dedicated servers I guess, but I don't care so much - most games I've played online haven't really suffered from bad lag.

The PSN has a ways to go before I'll consider paying for it, I think. Unless it comes with some kind of amazing perk I just don't see the service as worth money, it's clunky and awkwardly implemented. There's no cross-game voice chat. It's just not as pain-free to use as Xbox Live. On top of that I rarely actually use it.

That said, maybe a subscription service would help the PSN to catch up, in a round-about way. I daresay a lot of Live's better features are thanks to the fact that money has been pumping into that facet of Microsoft's business since the service's launch.

[TrinityJayOne]

I don't think it needs to be free, but $40 for three months is bullshit. $60 per year, $20 per quarter, $10 per month.
Huh? I don't think I've paid more than $70/yr. :confused:

[fearofthesky]

Huh? I don't think I've paid more than $70/yr. :confused:

I think Aub was suggesting what the pricing should be like. Its $50 a year for me btw. gamecard.com.au <3

I had a lively discussion with a JB drone after I enquired about their retail price of a 12 month Gold sub ($84.95 FTR). He said "I wouldn't pay for online because I have a PS3" in a rather condescending manner. I said "Oh, you're one of those people, eh? Well, I'd rather pay for a good online service then struggle with a crappy free one." I also told him 85 is a rip off.

Check and mate. I have only used a PS3 online once or twice, and clunky is certainly the word. No cross game chat is a real killer.

I think MS needs to over rule Infinity Ward (amongst certain other XBLA developers) and their insane 1200 point MW2 map packs though. Seriously, I paid $47 for MW2 after some trading shenanigans and both map packs together cost 40 bucks.

[TrinityJayOne]

I was referring to the $40/quarter bit, which would make it $160 for a year. I've never seen it cost that much anywhere.

[Xanafalgue]

Second, I'd bring back the ability to view videos without having to wait 10sec for Zune to load. :\

This this this. Wtf were they thinking :confused:

[Clockw0rk]

I was referring to the $40/quarter bit, which would make it $160 for a year. I've never seen it cost that much anywhere.
New Zealand sucks. (http://www.dse.co.nz/dse.shop/4c0c46d00082b9ee2740c0a87f3b06e9/Product/View/YG1160)

[Stevorooni]

Convert your achievement points into microsoft points, point for point.

[St@ckboy]

XNA in Aus for sure. Would make me so happy (and make my Rock Band song collection grow like crazy).

[Antwandemarco]

Can't believe no one has mentioned increasing the friends list size yet! 100 friends is just ridiculous...

[AranchineD]

Can't believe no one has mentioned increasing the friends list size yet! 100 friends is just ridiculous...

They're already doing that though, killing off support for Halo 2 was the last thing they needed to do IIRC.

[aubergine]

I was referring to the $40/quarter bit, which would make it $160 for a year. I've never seen it cost that much anywhere.

At retail, 12 month timecards are roughly $80. 3 month ones are $40. Pay online via your xbox and it's $80/month,$30/quarter or $10.95/month.

[JubeiSaotome]

Both XMB and NXE are pretty horrible interfaces. Needs to be more intuitive, rather than hiding everything in 500 categories.

[AranchineD]

Both XMB and NXE are pretty horrible interfaces.

No they aren't.

[JubeiSaotome]

Compared to the Wii interface, sure.

[AranchineD]

And every console interface is shit compared to a PC's interface, so really every console should improve.

[Mr.Mew]

I think recording any gameplay through Live and uploading it to youtube would be pretty cool. Much like JC2.

And yes, Zune is a migrane in my 360. Mine still has to update, I haven't gone any further than that.

[JubeiSaotome]

Definitely. TVs too if you include Bravias, haha. But if we're talking ALL consoles, then there's a truckload of things outside of interfaces that needs to be improved on.

For starters, a shared online gaming and store system. One account for everything. Please hear my please Valve.

[adam_91vn]

At retail, 12 month timecards are roughly $80. 3 month ones are $40. Pay online via your xbox and it's $80/month,$30/quarter or $10.95/month.

ah . . . don't buy retail then

[sausage]

Total avatar control including gratuitous nudity and penis modification.

[VanAce]

I think they need to et rid of annoying 14 year olds

[sausage]

Yeah, they're pretty immature alright, gimme five... *slap*

[Lex]

And every console interface is shit compared to a PC's interface, so really every console should improve.

Hey when did Aran buy a pc and become a fag?

[sausage]

He got a flash new Win7 laptop with all the graphics fruit a few months back now.

[sausage]

But really, a new laptop is just a pin landing on a neutron star in terms of his overall ******ry level.

[Lex]

A laptop? For gaming? What a casual.

[tau]

Either you're both having a shitty attempt at trolling or you completely missed the point. Or both.

[AranchineD]

He got a flash new Win7 laptop with all the graphics fruit a few months back now.

No, my dad got a laptop, I got a desktop!

[sausage]

Either you're both having a shitty attempt at trolling or you completely missed the point. Or both.

Shouldn't this be in 'feedback'?

[Lex]

Either you're both having a shitty attempt at trolling or you completely missed the point. Or both.

Pssst, it might be you who has missed the point, just a heads up!

[tau]

No, seems pretty clear

Want it explained? I can send you the audiobook version if you're having trouble reading ^_^

[sausage]

Did your explanation involve good natured ribbing?

[REQUIEM]

Did your explanation involve good natured ribbing?

In these forums?

[freeradical]

Ribbed for who's pleasure?

[Slippery]

Mine of course

[sausage]

soz I meant rimjobbing.

[Creedy]

Free = improved

*EDIT*
Yeah you saw that coming.

[AranchineD]

Free = improved

*EDIT*
Yeah you saw that coming.

http://a.imageshack.us/img31/8236/spiderrc.png

[Shorty]

Free = improved

*EDIT*
Yeah you saw that coming.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu328/zerosignal/implied-facepalm.jpg

[Lex]

Dat creedy man, dat creedy.

[cipher101]

streaming live HD digital tv would be good, also streaming of good games from abc 2, streaming of channel v and mtv and cartoons would rock.

[CrimsonFury]

Clan system built into the guide

Remove limit of 100 friends

Improve the selection on the video marketplace. Its been here for 7 months now and we have something like 300-400 movies\shows, the US has had access to 100,000+ for a few years now.

Greater customization of notifications. I want to see pop-ups for messages\invites\achievements, I don't want to see a message every 30 seconds as friends comes online (especially if they increase the friend limit past 100).

Change the way title updates work so it doesn't log you out of live while downloading (only log out users who click "decline update"). I want to continue chatting, messaging etc while I wait for downloads.

Loose the file size cap for title updates (AFAIK this is still at the 4MB cap from the 360 launch). This is a huge limitation on how much support developers can give for things like regular balance updates to a multi-player game like Gears, Halo, COD etc (4MB is the limit on the cumalative patch size too). I am all for placing some kind of size limit so developers don't get sloppy like some PS3 games with regular 1GB updates, but 4MB is ridiculous. 100MB would be more reasonable for average broadband speeds these days IMO. File restrictions have been eased for arcade games, do the same for patches.

Allow us to join multiple party chats and toggle between them, like we already can with private chat.

Reduce the amount of MS Quality Assurance needed for updates on 3rd party Title updates. For most multi-platform games the 360 patch comes out 2-4 weeks later than the PC or PS3 counter parts due to MS insisting on doing lengthy QA on patches the developers have already done their own QA on. This much redundancy is not needed. If a developer puts out a crappy patch, let them bear the consequences.

Allow viewing a list of members in a party chat without join the part (via the guide). This info is already available in the dashboard, just add it to the guide.

Give us the option to sort content by user created folders (arcade games, trailers, etc). Scrolling through lists of 50+ arcade games is cumbersome.

Probably a lot more things I've forgotten, but there are plenty more ways MS can improve Live (And I'm sure they will with the Next Xbox in 2012 or beyond. No doubt it will come with a shiny new OS and a host of improvements.

[tau]

Loose the file size cap for title updates (AFAIK this is still at the 4MB cap from the 360 launch). This is a huge limitation on how much support developers can give for things like regular balance updates to a multi-player game like Gears, Halo, COD etc (4MB is the limit on the cumalative patch size too).

Considering balance patches could literally be a few kb as they'd just need to change a few digits, i'm not sure how this is a reason in favor of bigger patch file size limits.

[Natrak]

Yeah, I don't see it. Games seem to eventually have any problems patched up within whatever the small file limit presently is and it makes for a better end-user experience. Instead of booting up a game and waiting anywhere between 5 and 15 minutes for a patch/multiple patches you're waiting around a minute at most for the game to start up.

[CrimsonFury]

Considering balance patches could literally be a few kb as they'd just need to change a few digits, i'm not sure how this is a reason in favor of bigger patch file size limits.

Not all balance patches involve updating data entries. Example Relic Entertaiment started the upcoming Dawn of War II patch (which uses Games for Windows Live) has to go through MS certification because the patch contained code changes as well as data updates (don't know size of new patch yet, but most DOW2 patches have been 100-200MB).

As I stated, i'm all for keeping reasonable limits so we're not waiting an hour for a patch like PSN, I just think 4MB is an outdated limit for todays standards.

Also many console games *AREN'T* updated, thats the problem. Take for example, a few Xbox titles where the devs received mass complaints of the text being unreadable (Dead Rising, Mass Effect). The devs response (from 2 seperate companies) was that it was not possible to adjust the font size in a patch due to the 4MB limit on title updates.

[Spazzola]

Also many console games *AREN'T* updated, thats the problem. Take for example, a few Xbox titles where the devs received mass complaints of the text being unreadable (Dead Rising, Mass Effect). The devs response (from 2 seperate companies) was that it was not possible to adjust the font size in a patch due to the 4MB limit on title updates.

Couldn't they have just released a series of 4MB updates?

[tau]

what happens if a game needs multiple patches? or is a 1 patch limitation set too?

[CrimsonFury]

Couldn't they have just released a series of 4MB updates?

No they can't. The cumalative patch limit is 4MB. Developers are required to make a cumalative patch available from the original version to the current version of the game no more than 4MB. Currently developers that plan to make multiple patches for a game have to plan ahead and make early patches alot smaller (1MB - 2MB), sometimes leaving out features they want to implement, in order to ensure they can make more patches in future.

[Creedy]

That's really silly and very limiting.

[Spazzola]

Yeah, that is actually quite stupid.

[Shorty]

That's really silly and very limiting.

Is it? Has it really been a common problem for developers or are we just imagining that it would be because a 4Mb patch seems so much smaller than a 200Mb one? Is there any evidence of developers consistently bumping up against this patch size limit? If not, then why are we worrying about it?

[Natrak]

Pretty much. It seems like a limited system, but in practice it is a system that has worked and a system that has made for a better end-user experience.

[Shorty]

Pretty much. It seems like a limited system, but in practice it is a system that has worked and a system that has made for a better end-user experience.

It's not just that. MS has raised other Live "limits" when developers kept bumping up against them before. Remember when Live Arcade titles had to be under 50Mb?

[aubergine]

Solution: make the game properly THEN release it. Console developers have to be more professional than half-arsed PC developers.

At the sake time, Burnout Paradise had a series of 9 patches that topped a gigabyte. (you could manually delete the previous patch though.) This not only added the new content but fixed a raft of problems with the game over time.

[Shorty]

Those were more like "DLC with version numbers" than title updates, though.

As for the "make the game better" idea, that's going to have a hard time going up against the dueling pressures of "put more in the game" and "release one every year/relase it in time for Christmas".

[aubergine]

The Burnout patches did contain the DLC, which was either free or pay-to-unlock. But the patches also included heaps of gameplay tweaks and environment fixes, the best of which was when they finally patched in support for restarting an event (instead of driving back to the start of a race.)

[Shorty]

That's the only example that I can think of in recent memory where a developer has made an effort to do an end run around the title update system like that. Unless other developers have spoken up about this problem in the gaming press. From the looks of things, they haven't.

[Xanafalgue]

The patches really don't concern me, all I know is that it is better than the 300MB+ worth of patches I had to download before I could start playing Uncharted 2...

[CrimsonFury]

That's the only example that I can think of in recent memory where a developer has made an effort to do an end run around the title update system like that. Unless other developers have spoken up about this problem in the gaming press. From the looks of things, they haven't.

Battlefield Bad Company 2 has had 2x 400MB free DLC titled "Multiplayer balance update" and Multiplayer balance update 2"

Magic the Gathering (arcade game) required users to re-download a new build of the entire game because they couldn't fit the updates in the 4MB limit.

Bomberman LIVE did the same thing.

Crackdown 1 required free DLC to make the game compatible with people who owned the premium DLC (could have been done a title update if the file size limits weren't there). Many games have done a similar thing for DLC compatibility.

Gears of War 2 devs mentioned in their forum some balance features they couldn't alter due to patch size limits

etc etc etc.

I'm not saying remove limits entirely, but something like 100MB would be alot more reasonable. If you have a decent connection 100MB takes no more than 5 mins these days.

[aubergine]

Yeah, but make sure punter know file size before they have to download.

[aubergine]

God, why did iPhone auto-correct drop the s from both punters and sizes?

[jawsy]

Whatever you say, Neanderthal Ricky Ponting.

[fearofthesky]

4mb hey? Bully on 360 was utterly broken out of the box, and it took the emails of many angry gamers for Rockstar to pull their heads out and fix the problem. I meant to play it whilst signed out when I got it a few weeks ago, but I forgot. The title update took aaages compared to most games, over a minute. Reckon that file was over 4mb? If a dev went to ms on hands and knees, bawling how they stuffed up, they would probably up the limit a touch.

Bully now has a highlyy conspicuous v1.3 on the title screen now, something I've never seen in a console game before.

[Creedy]

The patches really don't concern me, all I know is that it is better than the 300MB+ worth of patches I had to download before I could start playing Uncharted 2...

Game patches on PS3 generally include data from the dlc.

[Pai Mel]

How about being able to save your games progress on Xbox Live. Not just your achievements?

[geezgsr]

More demos would be nice. I kinda dismissed Mass Effect 2 as being just another sci fi game until I played the demo.... boy was I wrong. Demos definitely sell games for me.

[pezhead015]

Whatever happened to foxtel on xbox?

[Natrak]

It's still on the way, they just recently did some kind of presentation of it behind closed doors. No date or price yet, however.

[aubergine]

I don't understand the point of "foxtel on Xbox" - You still have to pay for foxtel right? So what's the advantage of having it run through your xbox instead of the... foxbox?

[TrinityJayOne]

-No need for satelite dish/connection to Telstra cable network
-No install fees

Aaand that's about all that comes to mind.

[pezhead015]

I was thinking it may also be cheaper and have smaller packages. Like just sport for $10 or so a month?? If they did that I think people might take it up

[sausage]

plus the achievements for watching a full television series

[Pai Mel]

Well also instead of Microsoft trying to obtain licence rights for movies from the studios, they can just do it through Foxtel.

[TrinityJayOne]

I was thinking it may also be cheaper and have smaller packages. Like just sport for $10 or so a month?? If they did that I think people might take it up
I wouldn't count on it. From the $40/mth you pay for the basic package, Foxtel turns $10 profit a year. The sports channels are a big seller because the best ones (Fox Sports) are owned by Foxtel, so you can't get them with the cheapo small providers. If It's offered alone it'll cost far more than $10.

[Gutsman Heavy]

If I can get live Bronco's games cheap I'd probably bite