The Ace Attorney Thread: Phoenix Wright/Apollo Justice

[madmangohan]

Three or so, actually.I'm already just outside the halfway mark in the case actually.

[FF Freak]

Bah still have to pick up no.3 from dungeon Crawl. :(

[borgster101]

Well I just completed the third game in the Phoenix Wright series, and let me tell you the final case is amazing!! :D So many twists and turns throughout the whole time, kept you guessing till the very end and finally a very satisfying conclusion of the adventures of Phoenix Wright.

This final case ties things together with several other events in the game, as well as events from the previous games, this is a series where you really have to play all 3 games in order to fully appreciate, and why wouldn't you want to, such brilliance! :D

Now bring on Apollo Justice, it's going to be sad not to see Phoenix though, but as I said Trials and Tribulations closes everything very nicely, man it was awesome :)

[scoz]

Now bring on Apollo Justice, it's going to be sad not to see Phoenix though, but as I said Trials and Tribulations closes everything very nicely, man it was awesome :)

He's set to be a defendant in apollo justice, but still, apollo doesn't look as cool. Anyway, that's months off yet.

Still haven't got three... damnation.

[Nic Xtreme]

Phoenix plays a huge role in Gyakuten Saiban 4! I just hope the other characters pop up eventually in future games!

[borgster101]

Yeah I heard about Phoenix being the defendant but then I thought that was refering to the 3rd game, i.e. Mia's case since I couldnt remember where I read it ...

All is good then, ;)

[jaxter]

So I just finished the first game of the series and I loved it. Especially the feeling after combing through the witnesses testimony and finding a contradiction, then yelling OBJECTION at the DS.
Off to buy the other 2 now :)

[Sac]

I really like the PW series, but I've found that PW2 has stumped me allot more than PW1, but not in the good way where I figure out what to do later (Which actually happened a few times in PW1) but in the bad completely stuck kinda way.

I'm on day 2 of case 2, but I haven't touched it in a little while for this reason. I do intend to finish it however.

[Nic Xtreme]

Just use a walkthrough. It's for the good of the storyline!

[Cerebral]

I actually agree - given some of the leaps of logic necessary in this game, you're not exactly cheating yourself out of a worthwhile experience by using a walkthrough.

[AyatollaofRocknRolla]

I use a guide for PW games every so often. Sometimes it's hard to work out what evidence your meant to present , or conclusion your meant to come to based on what you know. You check a guide and think to yourself how you were meant to figure that out.

Anyway just on the fourth case of T&T . Edgeworth is awesome!

[gaselite]

I also agree. I hope they're a lot more felxible with the evidence from now on.

[AyatollaofRocknRolla]

I just finished T&T today. I would say it's my favourite of the three. All the cases were really good, and they all tied together well, so the story was really enjoyable. To start out the first case with where it all started in the past with Mia, and then tie up all the lose ends in the final case. Brilliant.

It'll be interesting to how the new character goes down in the next game. Hopefully they can capture what makes the series great, and bring something new too the game.


PS:

I've just created a thread in the auction house for the game. So check it out if your interested.

[scoz]

I actually agree - given some of the leaps of logic necessary in this game, you're not exactly cheating yourself out of a worthwhile experience by using a walkthrough.

Well, I'd like to hear some of the logic jumps where people had trouble presenting which evidence where. I've never had any real trouble, and I think it spoils the gameplay if you use a guide. I mean, there has to be a bit of dubious conclusions, or else how would the game surprise you? I think the worst leap in logic for me was the 4th case in the first game, where suddenly there is only one place the bullet could be... what the hell? Oh, but I love how you just "happen" to have a metal detector. I think the logic leaps were less bad in 2 because you could present profiles.

[Sac]

Well, I kinda got distracted by other games (Mostly FFIII DS, which I've since finished...this however just made me wanna start playing FFII PSX).

Anyway, I tend to treat this the way I do any other adventure game. If I get stuck I'll usually give it one or two days of trying to figure out what to do, but if I stay stuck any longer, it's walkthru time. If you're stuck for that long (and randomly presenting EVERYTHING, just to try and get through, is boring as hell, especially when you keep getting a game over), why stay stuck and kill your enjoyment of the game?

[borgster101]

Yep use a guide when it seems impossible, sometimes you have to press specific statements THEN present evidence, which is bull shit since you might have thought of the soluiton already but it didnt work, because you didnt do it exactly as you were supposed to!!!

Most of the time though, you should be able to get through without a guide, but the games do have their WTF moments.

[AyatollaofRocknRolla]

Well, I'd like to hear some of the logic jumps where people had trouble presenting which evidence where. I've never had any real trouble, and I think it spoils the gameplay if you use a guide. I mean, there has to be a bit of dubious conclusions, or else how would the game surprise you? I think the worst leap in logic for me was the 4th case in the first game, where suddenly there is only one place the bullet could be... what the hell? Oh, but I love how you just "happen" to have a metal detector. I think the logic leaps were less bad in 2 because you could present profiles.

I can't think of particular examples, but i have a poor memory. But there's several moments where presenting evidence gets a bit ambiguous, as to which piece and when. There were times when I'd figuired out what the answer was, but the game only allows you to answer one way, at one statement. So it's a bit trial and error in that regard.

[watkinzez]

I'm not the only one with Apollo Justice, am I?
Good first case. Almost ruined with a stupid, drawn-out meme, but good overall.

[Cerebral]

AWESOME first case. Ridiculous name for a witness.

Just started Case 2. I wonder when they'll fill in the grand canyon that is the gap between this game and the last.

[fubusan]

I'm a bit late on the Phoenix bandwagon, only just got a DS Lite a few weeks ago (had to place a pre order at EB and it took about 3 weeks to come in). Up to the last case on the first Phoenix Wright game, Ace Attorney.

How funny are the characters?! Best video game characters eva? Gotta love Sal Manella..."sux0rs" etc. lol! :D

[OrchidEleven]

Posting to remind myself that I must aquire the new Ace Attorney game when I get home tonight!

[Cerebral]

I'm a bit late on the Phoenix bandwagon, only just got a DS Lite a few weeks ago (had to place a pre order at EB and it took about 3 weeks to come in). Up to the last case on the first Phoenix Wright game, Ace Attorney.

How funny are the characters?! Best video game characters eva? Gotta love Sal Manella..."sux0rs" etc. lol! :D
Pfft. Sal Manella is a one-dimensional dickhead.

[Northy179]

Pfft. Sal Manella is a one-dimensional dickhead.

yar, i hated him.

maya = win

[Nic Xtreme]

Pfft. Sal Manella is a one-dimensional dickhead.

True, but he is also an excellent example of how to make a hilarious, entertaining and memorable one-dimensional character! That's what Ace Attorney games do right -- the characters :D

[Cerebral]

Leetspeak doesn't make him hilarious, entertaining or memorable! Token is the word I would use.

[fubusan]

I found him funny...to laugh at :D

But it was the reactions that made it funny as well when Maya said something like "what does he mean by suck sores?!"

[borgster101]

Oh man, now I have to get my hands on Apollo!
Still busy with Zack & Wiki and now Battalion Wars II!

So how is Apollo? Same sort of deal you would expect from the Ace Attorney games? DS specific puzzles, i.e. 5th case from first game implemented well here?

[Cerebral]

Haven't seen any if the first case yet, though all the items in the court record have that 3D rotating thing going on. There's some nice 3D video thrown in too.

[igotnewsuper8systemWRONG!]

I finally got a hold of the Phoenix Wright games a few weeks ago, made it through AA and JFA and currently in the 3rd case in T&T. This series has really sucked me in.

[AyatollaofRocknRolla]

I am awaiting delivery of Apollo . Looking foward to it.

[madmangohan]

Same here. Play Asia supposedly sent my yesterday. Probbably a week and a half before I see it (stupid slow aus post)

[FF Freak]

Picked up Apollo Justice from Dungeon Crawl today. Only done the first case so far but still as great as the originals with some added extras. Still need to play T&T and borrowing the first game from a friend so I can finally play the last case.

[Nic Xtreme]

T&T is awesome! Play it! Plaaaaaaaaaay it! Highlight of the series, IMO, with some super memorable characters ^_____^

[dazza826]

I got my copy on monday from play-asia and all I can say is its great fun

p.s is anyone else's play-asia 5 off coupon faded,and if i buy half life orange box, will I have to buy something else to get the 5 off cuz its 49.90 minus shipping

[Lazlow]

FIIIIINAAAAAAAALLY finished Ace Attorney last night... I had put it down during the last case some months ago, and didn't pick it back up until a few days ago. Whilst its fun there was one glaring oversight during Ema's testimony that you couldn't object:

She claims Marshall was stabbed in the chest, yet when you present the autospy that said the knife was in the back you get penalized.

And aside from being a little text heavy (tap, tap, tap, tap, ******IN C'MON ALREADY, tap, tap), it was highly enjoyable. Now to get through JFA and T&T before even thinking about ordering Apollo.

Anyone played Harvey Birdman yet? I've got that one on its way from Play-Asia. Major criticism directed at it is its short game length (3-4 hours apparently) which hardly bothers me for a $30 PSP game.

[UC1]

LOL I just finished Ace Attorney and ordered the other 2 Phoenix Wright games, and Harvey Birdman. What a coincidence =P

[igotnewsuper8systemWRONG!]

Finished T&T a few days ago, the last case was great. I think it craps all over the 2 games before it, plus you don't have to put up with Lotta Hart or Oldbag and to top it off, Godot is the man.

[aubergine]

I've had T & T sitting in a drawer for a little while waiting for a good DS deal to crop up. Kmart has a lite + case + tetris deal for $199 this week. I saw Apollo Justice while I was out and snapped that up, then found Kmart was sold out of the DSs!

So I went to a different Kmart and they were sold out of tetris! They reserved the DS for me though but would not sell it to me as "the deal" until the tetris came in. A bit ridiculous, I thought I could have paid for it, taken the DS home, then just picked up Tetris when they get it in later. But no, all at once or never it seems.

[borgster101]

Got my Apollo today WOOO! :D

Haven't played it yet though ... probably on the weekend I'll start.

[Nic Xtreme]

So there's a Gyakuten Meets Orchestra concert in Tokyo this April, and there'll be a "exciting announcement" made there! I hope it's Gyakuten Saiban 5! Or an Ace Attorney Wii Ware Episodic Series ^__________^

http://gonintendo.com/?p=37142

[Jickle]

The first case of Apollo Justice wipes the floor with the first cases of all the other games. Except the music, which is nowhere near as good as Trials and Tribulations. God, I miss Godot's theme already. ;_;

[igotnewsuper8systemWRONG!]

So there's a Gyakuten Meets Orchestra concert in Tokyo this April, and there'll be a "exciting announcement" made there! I hope it's Gyakuten Saiban 5! Or an Ace Attorney Wii Ware Episodic Series ^__________^

http://gonintendo.com/?p=37142

I managed to aquire a copy of the Gyakuten Meets Orchestra album recently and it's great, if you like Phoenix Wright and you love the music this will send chills down your spine.

[Nic Xtreme]

I managed to aquire a copy of the Gyakuten Meets Orchestra album recently and it's great, if you like Phoenix Wright and you love the music this will send chills down your spine.

Damn straight! While I have this downloaded, it's one album I'd love to buy when I can, as it is sublime!

[Jickle]

So what does everyone think of Apollo? I've just started the last case, and I think it's the best in the series so far. Also, I have a review of Trials and Tribulations in the next Hyper....I think.

[Nic Xtreme]

I'll be getting it soon...

...I cannot fathom how they can make an AA game better than T&T though! I mean, the cohesion between all those cases, as well as linking to the previous games, and inventing the best character ever, Godot, plus that awesome soundtrack.

It's going to take a lot -- gameplay advancements alone cannot do it! I'm a character/story man!

[Jickle]

I'll be getting it soon...

...I cannot fathom how they can make an AA game better than T&T though! I mean, the cohesion between all those cases, as well as linking to the previous games, and inventing the best character ever, Godot, plus that awesome soundtrack.

It's going to take a lot -- gameplay advancements alone cannot do it! I'm a character/story man!

Godot is still probably the best character in the series, but the music is fantastic (different, but just as good if not better), the graphics and animation are better (some bits are really, really cool, but I'll let you discover them for yourselves), the gameplay is more varied, and in general it feels a lot more logical. A lot of the cases feel smart, but easily within grasp if you've played the previous games.

Plot wise, obviously I can't comment until I've finished it, suffice to say I'm happier with the game at this point than I was with the last two. In JFA and TaT it felt like the game was building up towards the final case, but in this one individual cases seem to have more self-contained importance and greatness, while still building up a few overarching plot points.

I thought I'd miss the old characters and being able to present profiles as evidence, but honestly, I don't. Not that the old characters weren't great, but the new cast is more than interesting enough to keep you happy. I do miss the Magatama a bit though- the 'perceiving' bits in court are fantastic, but it would be cool to have both.

[igotnewsuper8systemWRONG!]

I'm only on the second case of Apollo, but I'm loving it. The first case was amazing. *spoiler* I didn't know PW was in it, I just about shit myself when he showed up. *end spoiler*

[Nic Xtreme]

Awesome! I'll be putting my P-A order in for it soon after the 19th! I can't wait to get stuck into it!

Glad to hear that the music and self-contained cases are excellent -- I particularly loved that tragic story of the Circus in JFA, so I hope there are more that really hit home emotionally like that!

[Jickle]

Glad to hear that the music and self-contained cases are excellent -- I particularly loved that tragic story of the Circus in JFA, so I hope there are more that really hit home emotionally like that!

Haha I hated that case >_>

Apollo has plenty of heart to it, though. Last case sounds pretty amazing, too.

[Nic Xtreme]

I thought the gameplay in the case got a bit repetitive, but golly-gee was the storyline tragic! I've also unintentionally heard bits about the last case...and yes it sounds excellent!

[madmangohan]

My copy came in on Monday. I've just been ultra slack to start it for some obnoxious reason

[aubergine]

I picked up Trials and Tribs and Apollo and now have to object my way through both games. renaming thread BTW

[watkinzez]

Some VAGUE SPOILERS

Excellent game, when all is said and done. Whenever a series does a reset to change things up, there's always danger of disappointing your audience and hurting the legacy of the mythos overall. It's there what Apollo Justice does so well- new characters are introduced on the back of old ones, given a different perspective (case 4 Phoenix very much reminded me of what Kojima did with Solid Snake in MGS2). Now that I know more of Apollo and Trucy's backstories, I'm more invested in their characters and very much hope to see future games lean in their favour. In some ways, this game acts as a bridge between the two sagas- the baton is passed, now let them run with it.

Speaking of case 4.. wow. Just the intricacies and developments from various periods and how they all came together was extremely satisfying, to say the least. The 'what happened x amount of time ago' has been done many a time in previous cases, but the way it becomes more hands on makes it all the more compelling. More than enough material to set up an Apollo trilogy, too. ;)

[FF Freak]

Finished Apollo Justice 2 days ago. Man case 4 just blew my mind. The way it brought the other cases together (well 2 of the 3) into a nicely tight packed story. can't wait to see what they do with GS5, and who the next Prosecutor might be, or if they'll just keep Klavier.

[aubergine]

I'm doing the first major case in Trials and Tribs and reached the point where everything flips around when you find you've cleared Ron Delite of thievery to instead have him charged with murder. I was agape at how brilliant that was - given that I'd spent the whole time surprised but also glad that for once it wasn't just another murder trial. Why not have Wright try other cases? How about a divorce case where you have to prove that it was the wife who slept with the secretary and not the husband? oh the possibilities!

[madmangohan]

Finished Case 1 of Apollo Justice this arvo. Holy shit, if that wasn't the best first case yet, then it came pretty close to it. Totally dug the 3d crime layout map that was used a few times. Kinda pissed we get no more awsome artwork when you highlight a completed case in the menu. They were seriously awsome (unless maybe its just the first case lacking it and i'm complaining over nothing)

[igotnewsuper8systemWRONG!]

Kinda pissed we get no more awsome artwork when you highlight a completed case in the menu.

I was thinking the same thing, the artwork in those were brilliant. Doesn't effect gameplay in anyway but I miss them...

[Nic Xtreme]

Wasn't it only used for the PW1 DS remake?

[igotnewsuper8systemWRONG!]

AA, JFA and T&T all had the sweet artwork after finishing a case.

[Nic Xtreme]

Oh, I thought you just meant the big dual-screened one in the case-select screen!

[Jickle]

Oh, I thought you just meant the big dual-screened one in the case-select screen!

Thats what he's talking about. It's in the first three, but sadly absent from Apollo.

Of course Apollo makes up for it in a variety of ways. Part way through the final case, and even though I think the game focuses too much on certain characters without really exploring others (being vague here to avoid spoilers, but you'll know what I mean if you've played it), it's still fantastic. After Trials and Tribulations I was worried that the series may have run out of ideas but Capcom have proved me wrong. Hope the 5th game in the series pushes things even further.

[Nic Xtreme]

Hey if anyone here has finished their game and wants to sell it, I'll totally buy it off you! PM me now! Shameless, huh!

Also, I could've sworn AA1 was the only one with gorgeous massive artworks. The other two only had shitty character pics and the like? No I could be wrong. Time to turn on my DS, methinks...

[igotnewsuper8systemWRONG!]

Also, I could've sworn AA1 was the only one with gorgeous massive artworks. The other two only had shitty character pics and the like? No I could be wrong. Time to turn on my DS, methinks...

Correct, AA had the best artworks but the others still had something. Apollo Justice has abolished them completely.

[Space_Monkey]

So I picked up I picked up Phoenix Wright: Justice for All and I'm having some issues with it.

I loved the original, I'm a point'n'clicker fan from waaaaaaaaay back and coupled with wacky and wonderful characters and story I was hooked.

But now I'm playing the sequel I'm feeling "ho hum" there is not enough new content to warrent the sequel title!

Still I trudge on! Thoughts?

[Lazlow]

Pretty much echoed my sentiments, you play one PW you've played them all. A lot of text to trawl through and minimal interaction.

[/backslash]

Storylines are good but the lack of interaction is a problem that holds down the sequels - they tend to feel more like expansion packs. PW3 & 4 are more of the same but the 4th title has an updated presentation & 3D objects. If samey is not good for you do not play the other 2 sequels. I must admit because of this problem I've still yet to finish 3 & 4

The fifth title is currently being made and expects to completely change the genre so keep an eye on that one

[madmangohan]

I don't see the same old gameplay being a bad issue for me. Sure, when you break the game down, it's just move, talk, examine, present, (repeat 15 times), get to court, press, present (repeat until back at scenario 1 or game win).
But weren't adventure games like that at some point (repeated simple steps). The ones that were decent were the ones with a great story/character, which is how I view the PW games.
I don't play for the gameplay, I play to unfold the truely neat stories it contains.

[aubergine]

I think the first 3 games make a great whole story package and that Apollo Justice, while being okay, didn't really meet my standards. I didn't like where they took Phoenix Wright's character, and though it was all very clever and tied together in the end (as it always is) I still didn't appreciate where they took it.

[Lazlow]

I don't see the same old gameplay being a bad issue for me. Sure, when you break the game down, it's just move, talk, examine, present, (repeat 15 times), get to court, press, present (repeat until back at scenario 1 or game win).
But weren't adventure games like that at some point (repeated simple steps). The ones that were decent were the ones with a great story/character, which is how I view the PW games.
I don't play for the gameplay, I play to unfold the truely neat stories it contains.


Sure if you were to look at Adventure games as a whole, the mechanics are entirely the same. But differing games at least provide different locales, characters, plot lines, themes and moods.

PW has largely stayed the same throughout - same mechanics, same characters, same venues, same basic progression. Pile on obscene amounts of text and it can be a bit of a grind to work through.

[FF Freak]

PW has largely stayed the same throughout - same mechanics, same characters, same venues, same basic progression. Pile on obscene amounts of text and it can be a bit of a grind to work through.

The thing is the majority of people don't play Phoenix Wright for the gameplay but rather for the storylines and occasionally witty or humorous one liners. Phoenix Wright is probably the first time that any game that could come under the classification of the Japanese visual novel has been released outside of Japan. But of course it has more depth of play than the average visual novel. The thing is that it appeals to a specific audience and if its not your thing then I'd simply say don't bother.

[scoz]

hmm, i just imported trials and trib and apollo, and I have to say that I thought trials and trib was one step forward but apollo was two steps back. I only play AA for the story (really, is there any other reason?) but apollo's story was shite. Plus apollo is a shithead. Perfect prosecutor has a lot- A LOT- to live up to.

Plus, can anyone explain to me why phoenix can time travel in apollo case 4?

[Nic Xtreme]

I don't see the same old gameplay being a bad issue for me. Sure, when you break the game down, it's just move, talk, examine, present, (repeat 15 times), get to court, press, present (repeat until back at scenario 1 or game win).
But weren't adventure games like that at some point (repeated simple steps). The ones that were decent were the ones with a great story/character, which is how I view the PW games.
I don't play for the gameplay, I play to unfold the truely neat stories it contains.

Yeah, me too! I love the games purely for the storyline and characters, and to see what happens next! I always get laughs out of the games, too! I <3 them all so much!

Ooooh, I'm up to Case 4 on Apollo Justice now, and I'm still loving it! :D Can't wait for Gyakuten Kenji!

[madmangohan]

PW has largely stayed the same throughout - same mechanics, same characters, same venues, same basic progression. Pile on obscene amounts of text and it can be a bit of a grind to work through.
See, you should really think of the first 3 games as a 3 part story rather than 3 seperate entities.
The mechanics are nothing more than the basics of what most adventure games were, but unlike most adventure games, they weren't originally constrained to the controls of the GBA. Plus if it aint broken, why fix it.
For characters, see line 1.
As for venues, honestly its hard to tell if it was to do more with the gba's original constraints or the fact that it would make the game a total drag if you had 20 areas on your list of places to visit :/
Progression may as well be linked with mechanics.

Honestly, if anything, Apollo Justice has more to answer for than the first 3 games. It didn't have much of an excuse compared to the first three. Sure it was trying to keep everything like the first three, but the bracelet is as much of a crap pit than the Magatama was. The sound mixer was worse than the vcr mechanic the extra case of game 1 had and it honestly didn't have much new (although the computer thingo was nice, if only a distraction to the fact you were still doing the same crap).

Plus, can anyone explain to me why in apollo case 4?Cause he's awesome!?

[Lazlow]

I guess, the way i saw it was, PW was one of the reasons I originally got a DS, and the first game was great, to me it was something fresh something new. However, even with the first game, I found all the text a chore; I didn't get wrapped up in the story as much as some, and I can hardly say I actually laughed during them; enjoyable but not hilarious.

So add 2 more games on top of that, and I'm in no rush to continue. Good reason why T&T is still shrink wrapped.

[nkbswe5]

I dunno, I play it for the story and I laugh at reoccuring characters and jokes... I feel so geeky all of a sudden.

[borgster101]

You really have to get into the characters and storyline (the first 3 games are really one full story) to get the most out of the Ace Attorney games.

I've finished all 4 games and loved them all ... Apollo changed things, and whilst probably not exactly where I would have liked to see Phoenix go, he still make for an awesome mentor character in the Apollo game, and certainly has his moments in this new "role".

It will be interesting to see how different Miles Edgeworth Kickass Prosecutor is going to be though. Looks like it will have more "gameplay" for one thing.

[aubergine]

Edgeworth is the best character from the series. Apart from his outfit he's actually believable, he has a character journey which is really well developed in the first game and his appearances in the later games are always too short. What they did with him in 3 was just great, a total surprise.

[aceaussie]

Edgeworth is having his own game, It should be great.

[igotnewsuper8systemWRONG!]

Edgeworth is the best character from the series. Apart from his outfit he's actually believable, he has a character journey which is really well developed in the first game and his appearances in the later games are always too short. What they did with him in 3 was just great, a total surprise.
It was amazing, I had the biggest smile on my face in that case with all the classic characters making a return and Edgeworth on defense.

[Kefka]

I'm half way through the last case of Apollo, and I gotta agree with it being a weaker game for a few reasons...

* I was originally excited at having the 3D view for all items that didn't have an alternate closeup, but soon realised that 99% of the time the 3D view was completely useless - anything you found in it tended to be useless flavour text which was never useful in the case. If they're going to give us this gameplay mechanic, they could at least, well, work it into the gameplay.

* There were an increasing number of not-so-logical moments, where what you're meant to present (and when) isn't obvious, even in retrospect, or what makes sense to you isn't supported in the game, or you have two pieces of evidence that can kinda be used to make the same point but only one works, etc... It's easy to write these off as "you suck at the game", but I've definitely noticed an increasing number of "uhh... whut?" moments that should have been better tested and tweaked.

* Phoenix. It's starting to make sense now at the end of the game, but =>seeing him throughout the game in a hoodie, beanie and sporting stubble<= was just ODD. And it was the unsettling kind of odd where you think "I'm not sure I'm liking this", not the good kind of odd...


That said, the writing is still pretty good - the Police references in the 3rd case had me laughing (the ones in the Gavinner's dressing room), the ORLY joke was fun (although I was so hoping for a YARLY)... I was hoping Wocky would respond if you showed him his mum's panties, but no dice there... :(

I also lolled the first time Klavier whipped out his air guitar solo in court.

And yes, I'm not sure why I bothered to disguise such a minor spoiler...

[Lazlow]

* There were an increasing number of not-so-logical moments, where what you're meant to present (and when) isn't obvious, even in retrospect, or what makes sense to you isn't supported in the game, or you have two pieces of evidence that can kinda be used to make the same point but only one works, etc... It's easy to write these off as "you suck at the game", but I've definitely noticed an increasing number of "uhh... whut?" moments that should have been better tested and tweaked.

I had the opposite happen in one of the PW games, can't remember the case but there was a distinct instance where I had to wait for the correct event to occur before I could present specific evidence to contradict a statement.

[Cerebral]

I'd like to throw it out there that the 3rd case in Apollo Justice is the worst case in the entire series. Just falls apart at the end. Witholding the magician's secret was bullshit - this is a court of law, aren't you under oath, bitch?

[Nic Xtreme]

I must admit Apollo Justice is the first AA game where I haven't had a problem with the logic of evidence presented in court - every other one has had the situations mentioned by Kefka, the "WTF?" moments, but I reckon Apollo did it extremely well.

I haven't finished the last case yet, but I don't think this is going to top T&T :D

[scoz]

I'd like to throw it out there that the 3rd case in Apollo Justice is the worst case in the entire series. Just falls apart at the end. Witholding the magician's secret was bullshit - this is a court of law, aren't you under oath, bitch?
I thought it was worse when the judge accepts the existence of spirit mediums in trials and tribs no 4

Still, the best joke in any of the AA's so far is when you present irrelevent evidence to the computer bitch in the gay chef case. This is madness! THIS IS SPARDA!!

[Kefka]

I thought it was worse when the judge accepts the existence of spirit mediums in trials and tribs no 4

Ooh, on that topic - how about the way Apollo's "perception power" is handled? I thought it was kinda lame... I mean, he notices the nervous twitch, and then calls them on the twitch itself... and somehow this is fine in a court, and people break down and spill the beans because of it?!

I'd have much preferred to see you finding the nervous twitch, linking it to the phrase they were saying, and vocalise some kind of intelligent question/accusation rather than shouting "YOU TOTALLY FIDDLED WITH YOUR RING THERE! CONFESS!"

Am into the depths of the final part of the final case, which is quite a nifty idea... but to be honest, I'm just to the point of rushing through it as quick as possible because it's dragged on, they've stopped trying to be funny, and the serious story is a bit too all over the place for me to appreciate as much as previous ones.

And I've also got The World Ends With You waiting to be played :P

[scoz]

Am into the depths of the final part of the final case, which is quite a nifty idea... but to be honest, I'm just to the point of rushing through it as quick as possible because it's dragged on, they've stopped trying to be funny, and the serious story is a bit too all over the place for me to appreciate as much as previous ones.

And I've also got The World Ends With You waiting to be played :P

The final investigation is the longest investigation out of all the AA's, EVER, yet the final trial is sooooooooooooooo anticlimactic...

don't start the world ends with you until you finish it, or you never will...

[Kefka]

don't start the world ends with you until you finish it, or you never will...

Yeah, I finished Apollo last night and gotta agree about it being anticlimactic... I mean, I was expecting/hoping that the freaking devil had possessed Gavin Snr.

And to pretty much ignore the Big Revelation (who was behind it all) and bring it all back to the initial focus of the last case (which you pretty much disproved and moved on from in the first half) at the end was just annoying...

[Rambo]

I am only up to the 2nd case in Apollo Justice and I love it!

I've only played the first one, and not even all the way to the finish. I also found the reading quite a chore especially when most of my DS playing is before I go to bed. I fall asleep with the DS in my hand.

Should I go back to the other AA's? Or should I just play this one out knowing that all the hyperians think that the end is anti-climactic, which is the worst thing a game could ever be? (I hate working for something for so long and it end a huge letdown).

[aubergine]

The game is nothing but reading, and I think it's generally agreed that the first three are superior in story. Apollo's main problem in trying to introduce new characters is that 1) they are not as good as the old characters and 2) for some reason the old characters have been kept around to remind us of this and 3) the old characters have been gimped.

[Cerebral]

http://www.peachifruit.com/hiimdaisy/snack.png

[Kefka]

Should I go back to the other AA's? Or should I just play this one out knowing that all the hyperians think that the end is anti-climactic

Definitely play the others, but also keep playing Apollo! Remember, even if the end is anti-climactic, the other cases are still stand-alone enough to get plenty of pleasure from the minor climaxes throughout...

And yes, I play DS at the same time and fall asleep playing AA games... just as I do when reading a book.

[aceaussie]

whats the deal with T&T being Sold out on Play-Asia, Has it stopped being made or something?

[Lazlow]

Budget version is out now.

Gyakuten Saiban 3 (New Best Price! 2000) / Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney Trials and Tribulations (http://www.play-asia.com/SOap-23-83-24ww-71-9g-77-3-49-en-15-phoenix+wright-84-j-70-2lz2.html)

[aceaussie]

I want the english version though.
(Due to the fact that the other two I have are English and i don't want it to stand out)

[Lazlow]

Who cares for aesthetics, it still has an english language option.

[Kefka]

Who cares for aesthetics

i don't want it to stand out

HTH HAND

[aceaussie]

HTH???

Also Lazlow, I care for Aesthetics!

[Kefka]

HTH???

"Hope That Helps"... followed by "Have A Nice Day"

Was just pointing out that it was pretty obvious that you DID care about aesthetics :P

[/backslash]

"Hope That Helps"... followed by "Have A Nice Day"
I thought that meant "How the hell" followed by 'hand' which just confused me

I found a disturbing Phoenix Wright comic on VG Cats (http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=262), Edgeworth with boobs? *shudder*

[aceaussie]

Laughed Out Loud at the Comic, Great find.

[Lazlow]

"Hope That Helps"... followed by "Have A Nice Day"

Was just pointing out that it was pretty obvious that you DID care about aesthetics :P

I knew there was some attention paid to aesthetics, otherwise... why would I have mentioned it.

My point being, WHO CARES!

Cases don't matter its the games that are important.

[Yottabit]

The Fan translated version of Gyakuten Saiban (http://www.court-records.net/manga.html)

[/backslash]

If anyone's a fan of the Phoenix Wright music (and hey, who wouldn't be?) you should get the Gyakuten Saiban Tokubetsu Hout Orchestra Concert 2008 (http://www.play-asia.com/SOap-23-83-3ylm-71-8l-49-en-84-j-70-2qw6.html) music CD which contains all the most memorable tracks from games 1-4. Its been beautifully recreated & extended, lasting for just over an hour. The last song 'Objection' is easily my favourite!

Preview:

v-CQddV7UMw

Also if you enjoy that sort of stuff then you should definitely get Mario & Zelda Big Band Live CD (http://www.play-asia.com/SOap-23-83-3ylm-71-8l-49-en-15-zelda+mario-84-j-70-7wa.html) which is an actual band replaying Zelda & Mario tracks! Equally just as awesome, recorded with an audience

Preview:

3Zd1ZMQVH1I

[Cerebral]

If anyone's a fan of the Phoenix Wright music (and hey, who wouldn't be?) you should get the Gyakuten Saiban Tokubetsu Hout Orchestra Concert 2008 (http://www.play-asia.com/SOap-23-83-3ylm-71-8l-49-en-84-j-70-2qw6.html) music CD which contains all the most memorable tracks from games 1-4. Its been beautifully recreated & extended, lasting for just over an hour. The last song 'Objection' is easily my favourite!
The non-live version is way cleaner. >_>

[Emilbus]

<3 the Steel Samurai theme, got it as one of my ringtone :P

[Nic Xtreme]

That Objection song is pretty much almost identical to the track of the same name on the first Gyakuten Meets Orchestra soundtrack, complete with awesome cover art.

[topaz]

with regards to the English script in the Japanese Best Price versions, i heard there are slight differences to the actual English versions? are the western pop culture references present in the English script of the Japanese versions?

[VanAce]

I assumed the script would be changed in the western version as some of the Japanese references would go over most players heads in the west. Anime does this too sometimes also.

[Nic Xtreme]

http://www.cubed3.com/news/10709

What.

[Adios]

Massively Multiplayer? :p

Hell, it would be the first MMO I'd play!

[Nic Xtreme]

I wonder if it will be what I suggested once a while back - downloadable Ace Attorney cases? ~ I'd love a "Phoenix Wright" channel for Wii where you can buy new cases every few weeks/months!

Really though, I shouldn't be on anything other than the DS! I mean, what other console has such a speedy save system/soft reset for when you keep buggering up the evidence in trials?

I just want more Ace Attorney games! No game excites me as much as an AA game when I first boot it up! They are the best!

[FrozenSoul80]

http://www.cubed3.com/news/10709

What.

I'm getting a 404, what am I missing?

EDIT: Oh it's working now. Online enabled Phoenix Wright, hey? It will be interesting how that is implemented. I can't see it involving any MMO elements, however :/

[AranchineD]

Reading that, the little child in my head is running around hyperactively just imagining two players taking the part of both the prosecutor and defense attorney in the same case, both presenting evidence, both yelling out objections, whoever does it the best wins...

But I know that would be impossible to actually make a game like that without losing the brilliant unique style of these games. :(

Still, might be interesting what exactly it means.

[madmangohan]

I wouldn't mind a 'make your own case' thing where people can use a simple program to create their own cases as well as download other people's to their ds's.

[aceaussie]

I just got the third and am up to the second case I <3 how it's something different rather than being the same case type of case over and over.

I love the series and I'd love to see an MMO of the PW series :D

[topaz]

Just finished Trials & Tribulations...Iris is so sweet *sigh*, wish there was more to the ending though

I love the series so much, and i have Apollo Justice waiting in the closet too...i'll miss the awesome Phoenix Wright cast though :'( but at least we got Gyakuten Kenji (Edgeworth's spinoff) to look forward to :D

[Nic Xtreme]

Just finished Trials & Tribulations...Iris is so sweet *sigh*, wish there was more to the ending though

I love the series so much, and i have Apollo Justice waiting in the closet too...i'll miss the awesome Phoenix Wright cast though :'( but at least we got Gyakuten Kenji (Edgeworth's spinoff) to look forward to :D

You finished the game and...no mention of Godot?!

[topaz]

You finished the game and...no mention of Godot?!

Like a black coffee with no sugar, Godot was too bitter for my taste...initially
His character definitely grew on me throughout the game, and i almost had tears in my eyes at the end...

[Nic Xtreme]

Like a black coffee with no sugar, Godot was too bitter for my taste...initially
His character definitely grew on me throughout the game, and i almost had tears in my eyes at the end...

Bravo!

[aubergine]

The first Phoenix Wright game is on clearance at Kmart for $23.

[FrozenSoul80]

The first Phoenix Wright game is on clearance at Kmart for $23.

On a similar note, where is the cheapest place to buy Justice for All? I've nearly finished the first one, and I'm going to Adelaide on the weekend, so I have a chance to pick up number two.

I really love the interactive novel style of Phoenix Wright. It's like a choose-your-own-adventure game, only without the annoying page-flipping.

[topaz]

Just finished Apollo Justice, some thoughts (spoilers):


* The last case, Vera had drawn some rough sketches of Apollo's previous trials before painting over them...they never did explain the significance of this, did they?
* I love Ema and her grown up design, but they made her into a pretty annoying character :/
* I had a big grin when you reprise as PW...old courtroom, lobby and all :)
* When the game first (?) hinted at who their mother was on the Guilty/Innocent screen...I didn't see that coming!
* Yeah the last trial was pretty anti climatic though, as previously mentioned


Overall, I miss the old cast a lot *cue Maya's sad face*, but still thoroughly enjoyed the ride with AJ!

[Jickle]

Whenever I think of Apollo, I tend to focus on the awesome first, second and third missions. Still the best game in the series IMO, I just hope the next one (presumably ages away :() focuses less on Phoenix.

[UC1]

* The last case, Vera had drawn some rough sketches of Apollo's previous trials before painting over them...they never did explain the significance of this, did they?

They did. In the 7 year old trial, Vera's dad is impressed with Phoenix and states he's going to keep an eye on the agency.

Also I thought the 4th Chapter was excellent. The weakest one (which was still very good) imo was "turnabout corner" with the shitty Japanese Mafia who acted like Italians and Chinese half the time. The 4th Chapter had the whole conclusion of the Grammarye troup's story, and it was almost like 3 chapters in 1. Tying the characters from chapter 3 was a little weak, but apart from that it was excellent. It was essentially the same murder that happened in the past and the present, with the same 2 suspects and no way to convict either of them. It was pretty clever.

[topaz]

Also I thought the 4th Chapter was excellent.

Oh definitely, overall it was the best chapter in the game without a doubt...I just had that 'oh, it's over already?' feeling at the end..

I also thought we didn't get to know Apollo very well, but that's what sequels are for!

[AranchineD]

Whenever I think of Apollo, I tend to focus on the awesome first, second and third missions. Still the best game in the series IMO, I just hope the next one (presumably ages away :() focuses less on Phoenix.

Really? I just finished it and I honestly thought it was the worst. I never thought I'd say this, but I thought the game was too easy and obvious with where to press and present evidence and what the right option to choose is, and I thought quite a lot of the characters were hardly thought out or interesting to me. Also hated Klavier as the prosecutor.

But his brother is definitely going to play a big part in the next games, I'm actually completely interested in that.

[/backslash]

New trailer is up (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/41706.html) for the new Miles Edgeworth game! Looks awesome even though there's only about 10 seconds of actual gameplay shown in a 2min trailer

[UC1]

Nice to see that Edgeworth is also accompanied by a strange teenage girl. I was getting worried for a moment.

[FrozenSoul80]

New trailer is up (http://www.gametrailers.com/player/41706.html) for the new Miles Edgeworth game! Looks awesome even though there's only about 10 seconds of actual gameplay shown in a 2min trailer

Things I like:
Playing as a prosecutor.
More Dick Gumshoe.
Multiple sprites on the screen so you can see proper interaction between characters.
Familiar objects and settings.

Things I don't like:
We probably won't see this game get a local release for at least another 2 years :(

Can't wait ^_^

[aubergine]

I really didn't like Apollo at all. Phoenix's fate was awful, a Highlander 2 moment if ever there was one. Apollo himself sucked. They did nothing interesting with the 3D mechanic. It was playable but the least of the series.

[AranchineD]

I really didn't like Apollo at all. Phoenix's fate was awful, a Highlander 2 moment if ever there was one. Apollo himself sucked. They did nothing interesting with the 3D mechanic. It was playable but the least of the series.

The worst part of it was that it was far too obviously just setting up story strands and characters and so on for the inevitable sequels, unlike the Phoenix trilogy where they each really could stand on their own.

Oh, notice them funny psyche locks aye? Fairly interesting? Well tough, you're not going to find out crap about them until you buy the next game! HAHAHAHAHAHA

[ireadtabloids]

I'm not sure if you'll think it's relevant, but when Hideo Kojima was making Metal Gear Solid 3 he stated he was a massive fan of Phoenix Wright 3. He said he was a massive fan of the fact that it's based entirely around a courtroom. He claimed it to be one of the most innovative game concepts of the time. Fair endorsement.

[scoz]

The worst part of it was that it was far too obviously just setting up story strands and characters and so on for the inevitable sequels, unlike the Phoenix trilogy where they each really could stand on their own.

Oh, notice them funny psyche locks aye? Fairly interesting? Well tough, you're not going to find out crap about them until you buy the next game! HAHAHAHAHAHA

I'd have to disagree, I reckon that PW3 is 10 times more enjoyable if you played PW2 and PW1 first. I really didn't like apollo justice much, but graphically (in most areas) it was far superior.

"Funny Psyche Locks?" Are you talking about the black ones? I don't think they'll return, I thought they said they were black because you couldn't break them. You ended up winning the case without them though

[McChimp]

I just got Apollo Justice and I'm loving it, but I've got no prior experience with the Phoenix Wright games. Worth getting them as well, or are they all just much the same?

[borgster101]

They are much of the same, but it's worth getting them all for the story/characters and really for more cases to play through! You'll get more out of Apollo if you had played the prior Phoenix games as well ;)

[AranchineD]

The Phoenix Wright series really is far superior to Apollo Justice (even though it's still a good game), so if you liked that you really can't go wrong with the earlier games.

[Nic Xtreme]

It's 2009 and there hasn't been a new AA game in like a year :(

Sadtimes...

[McChimp]

The Phoenix Wright series really is far superior to Apollo Justice (even though it's still a good game), so if you liked that you really can't go wrong with the earlier games.

Awesome! Just found Justice for All at DVDCrave for $27 (I think?), so I'll have to make a point of getting it.

[Nintendork]

It's 2009 and there hasn't been a new AA game in like a year :(

Sadtimes...

Wasn't there supposed to be one coming out where you play as Edgeworth and you're a prosecutor rather then a defence attorney?

[FrozenSoul80]

Awesome! Just found Justice for All at DVDCrave for $27 (I think?), so I'll have to make a point of getting it.

Play the first game before you play Justice for All. JFA will mean so much more to you then.

[Nic Xtreme]

Wasn't there supposed to be one coming out where you play as Edgeworth and you're a prosecutor rather then a defence attorney?

Yeah that's for this year...I can't wait! :D

Still, I need more adventures with Maya, Nick and Pearls!

[FF Freak]

Still, I need more adventures with Maya, Nick and Pearls!

I missed Pearls in AA 4. loved her in 2 and 3.